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- Feb 2, 2010
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- Libertarian - Left
So, farewell then, David Cameron. You failed to deal with the Eurosceptics in the party of which you were supposed to be the leader, so you tossed a coin for the future of your country, the EU and the global economy, and guess what? It came up tails. Now you're legging it with your huge pension-for-life and your dad's ill-gotten riches stashed in Panama and somehow we're supposed to be moved by the catch in your voice and the doe-eyed look of tragedy on your wife's face?
So, can anyone think of a single thing you achieved in your 6 years of do-nothing incompetence? Economic probity? How's that looking now? Controlling immigration? I think the verdict's in on that. Good management of public services? Find a single person in the police, NHS, social services or public education who has a good thing to say about your administration.
In comparison, Gordon Brown looks like a political giant; Blair mendacious but at least competent; Major, flawed, but with the balls to front up to the 'bastards' in his own party.
I think Cameron's 'legacy' is secure as the worst PM in living memory. Anyone disagree?
Yawn. Excuse me if I have heard this one before, all the lefties claim Thatcher was the worst ever, then Blair was the worst ever, now it's Cameron...
He will be remembered as the guy who broke up the UK. Poor guy.
~ So, can anyone think of a single thing you achieved in your 6 years of do-nothing incompetence? ~
~ the taxpayers he's just condemned to another, and probably permanent, recession.
Thatcher was terrible, sowed the seeds of this disaster. Blair was mendacious, but not the worst ever and I don't think anyone has claimed that. At least he was competent in managing domestic policy. Time will tell, but Cameron's legacy, already terrible, will only deteriorate, and it's not just 'lefties' saying that. Ask the right-wingers across the world.
Here's the right-wing Spanish press take on him:
David Cameron: the man who split Europe
Here's what the right-wing of his own party think of him, and not on the subject of Brexit:
The Prime Minister's rank incompetence
And from yur own US media:
'Lucky' Cameron Exposed as one of UK?'s worst Prime mInisters
There you go, three voices, none 'lefty', all agreeing that he's at least 'one of the worst'.
I think Cameron's 'legacy' is secure as the worst PM in living memory. Anyone disagree?
No, there wasn't. It was entirely driven by Cameron's inability to deal with his Eurosceptic MPs. He could have ignored the UKIP rhetoric, just as he ignored plenty of other policies advocated in large numbers in the country at large. Just indeed as Blair ignored a far bigger anti-war movement.Not so fast, there was huge demand for the referendum.
So, you admit that it was all about internal Tory party dynamics. That's what I said.17.5 million voters voted for Brexit and yeah, they will likely pay for it unless there is a sea change in attitudes and industry here but those same demands and party splits over Europe lost Thatcher her job and gave Major his headache while in power.
A democratic say on something about which the general public were, and remain, largely ignorant. Should we submit decisions on the technical decisions of surgery, nuclear power or sewage treatment? No, because it is not reasonable to expect the general public would have the technical knowledge to make an informed decision. It's pretty clear from the Brexit campaign that people had scant understanding of the economic impact that Brexit will bring.Thursday was always coming Andy - some people think "rule Britannia" or "United Kingdom" but for the Scots who want freedom and for the 17.5 who wanted out - they may hate him but Cameron gave the public a democratic say in the future of their country.
Well, the topic is the legacy and reputation of Cameron. I'm not feeling the love.The choice is one I hugely disagree with because we haven't gained anything, those 17.5 million will one day accept they voted for something that they couldn't get and they were lied to but right now, they are happy even if they hate Cameron for being Bremain.
~ Harold Wilson: 2 different terms, and can argue that he was the reason for the collapse of the UK economy in the 1960s and 70s. Would be a tad simplistic though, since the rot had started long before he took power ~
Macmillan quickly restored the country’s confidence and its fortunes. In domestic policy, he was determined to avoid the mass unemployment he had witnessed in the 1930s as MP for Stockton-on-Tees. A champion of economic planning and a moderniser at heart, as living standards and prosperity in Britain increased he was able to claim that the British public had “never had it so good”.
~ Cameron's inability to deal with his Eurosceptic MPs
So, you admit that it was all about internal Tory party dynamics. That's what I said.
~ A democratic say on something about which the general public were, and remain, largely ignorant. Should we submit decisions on the technical decisions of surgery, nuclear power or sewage treatment? No, because it is not reasonable to expect the general public would have the technical knowledge to make an informed decision. It's pretty clear from the Brexit campaign that people had scant understanding of the economic impact that Brexit will bring.
~ (Listen to quote at around 47:00).
~ Well, the topic is the legacy and reputation of Cameron. I'm not feeling the love.
I don't "love" and the topic was is he the worst, I've given my opinion - Harold Wilson took Macmillan's golden legacy and led us to the industrial destruction of this country in the 70's and 80's.
So, farewell then, David Cameron. You failed to deal with the Eurosceptics in the party of which you were supposed to be the leader, so you tossed a coin for the future of your country, the EU and the global economy, and guess what? It came up tails. Now you're legging it with your huge pension-for-life and your dad's ill-gotten riches stashed in Panama and somehow we're supposed to be moved by the catch in your voice and the doe-eyed look of tragedy on your wife's face?
Certainly, you're getting no sympathy whatsoever from any source I can find, either domestic, European or global.
So, can anyone think of a single thing you achieved in your 6 years of do-nothing incompetence? Economic probity? How's that looking now? Controlling immigration? I think the verdict's in on that. Good management of public services? Find a single person in the police, NHS, social services or public education who has a good thing to say about your administration.
Add to this the very real and highly probable split of the UK into England and Wales, a Scotland still in Europe, and renewed sectarian division in Northern Ireland, now that the genie of a united Ireland referendum is on the table, and he goes from being a nincompoop to be a wrecking ball of an entire society.
In comparison, Gordon Brown looks like a political giant; Blair mendacious but at least competent; Major, flawed, but with the balls to front up to the 'bastards' in his own party.
I think Cameron's 'legacy' is secure as the worst PM in living memory. Anyone disagree?
Macmillan benefitted from stable international economic climate, and still had the resources of the Empire to shore up the creaking post-war reconstruction at home. Wilson inherited an ossified imperial structure and had to reimagine and reconstruct the entire aparatus of state, which he did. Well. He also instituted nothing short of a social revolution - legalising abortion, divorce, homosexuality. He ended widespread censorship and ended capital punishment. He instituted comprehensive education which gave poor kids like me the chance of a decent shot. He kept the UK out of Vietnam. His management of the economy was highly successful. The problems of the Seventies were caused by Heath, his Three-Day Week, and the global oil crisis of 1973.Yeah, when the country needed a Harold Macmillan we got Harold Wilson and Tony Benn as Industry Secretary who nationalised everything in sight.
True that. I wonder how many of them will remember their own outrage at Brown's refusal to call a general election. History tells us that that was a monumental mistake (as I thought at the time btw) but I suspect the temptation for Boris to govern without mandate will be too strong.Looking at the pool of possible candidates to replace Cameron, I don't see anyone who will give us drive and determination to make Brexit work.
Yup. Let's hope the nation remembers this when the s*** is spraying all over the shop.Yes I do and this was a boil that brought down Thatcher and badly affected Major's premiership. History and facts are on my side, the Conservative split on Europe is and was an open civil war for 30 years.
Have you heard the Brexiters lining up to claim that they never promised to reduce immigration anyway. Chris Grayling on AQ? was doing it, and wasn't the first.Manc Skipper said it earlier this morning, the public have been fed lies for 30 years and conditioned to hate and blame the EU for the poor decision making on all sides. And I do think this is something that had to be faced whether people knew the details or not. It's clear most who voted Brexit did it because they thought they would be able to control immigration and secure some fantasy deal with the EU - I'm sad that campaign on both sides did nothing to educate and what we also had were poor arguments and counter arguments which had poor facts behind them.
For the interests of the Tory party, yes. Not for the good of the nation. That had nothing to do with it.That boil had to be lanced.
You're clearly wrong. Wilson created modern Britain and brought about most of the civil liberties we now take for granted. He was a giant.I don't "love" and the topic was is he the worst, I've given my opinion - Harold Wilson took Macmillan's golden legacy and led us to the industrial destruction of this country in the 70's and 80's.
Cameron is a symptom of a generation that squandered the prosperity built by a post war generation and who are now wreaking revenge on our young to pay for it. The demographics of voting are that if you are young and educated you most likely voted remain. That generation has now lost that along with the prospect of owning a home, leaving University without tens of thousands of pounds of debt and numerous other things that are being dismantled by a series of crazed dogmatic right wing governments. It's starting to make the early 80s look like a golden age. Cameron has been one in a long line of disastrous centrist and hard right administrations.
No, there wasn't. It was entirely driven by Cameron's inability to deal with his Eurosceptic MPs. He could have ignored the UKIP rhetoric, just as he ignored plenty of other policies advocated in large numbers in the country at large. Just indeed as Blair ignored a far bigger anti-war movement. So, you admit that it was all about internal Tory party dynamics. That's what I said.
A democratic say on something about which the general public were, and remain, largely ignorant. Should we submit decisions on the technical decisions of surgery, nuclear power or sewage treatment? No, because it is not reasonable to expect the general public would have the technical knowledge to make an informed decision. It's pretty clear from the Brexit campaign that people had scant understanding of the economic impact that Brexit will bring.
As Ken Clarke said on AQ last night; "I don't think referenda are a very good way of dealing with complex issues that require knowledge and understanding of a number of specialisms". (Listen to quote at around 47:00).
Well, the topic is the legacy and reputation of Cameron. I'm not feeling the love.
One could argue that this started long before ~
Cameron is a symptom of a generation that squandered the prosperity built by a post war generation and who are now wreaking revenge on our young to pay for it. The demographics of voting are that if you are young and educated you most likely voted remain. ~
Macmillan benefitted from stable international economic climate, and still had the resources of the Empire to shore up the creaking post-war reconstruction at home.
- legalising abortion, divorce, homosexuality. He ended widespread censorship and ended capital punishment. He instituted comprehensive education which gave poor kids like me the chance of a decent shot. He kept the UK out of Vietnam.
The problems of the Seventies were caused by Heath, his Three-Day Week, and the global oil crisis of 1973.
~ Have you heard the Brexiters lining up to claim that they never promised to reduce immigration anyway. Chris Grayling on AQ? was doing it, and wasn't the first.
For the interests of the Tory party, yes. Not for the good of the nation. That had nothing to do with it.
Wilson created modern Britain and brought about most of the civil liberties we now take for granted.
I think youre putting the blame on Cameron too much there- he couldn't ignore calls for a referendum because his ministers would have revolted with a no confidence vote. The seeds were sown for a Brexit years before- he just happened to be running the country when it finally burst. In the end the people voted, you cant argue against that.
...The EU was something all the parties had problems with - just look at which political leader has been condemned for his lacklustre and half hearted performance. The Labour Party was basically made up of Brexit voters and a leader who really couldn't support the cause as emotionally as he would support a Palestinian cause and a Parliamentary Labour Party caught in the middle largely wishing for remain...
So, farewell then, David Cameron. You failed to deal with the Eurosceptics in the party of which you were supposed to be the leader, so you tossed a coin for the future of your country, the EU and the global economy, and guess what? It came up tails. Now you're legging it with your huge pension-for-life and your dad's ill-gotten riches stashed in Panama and somehow we're supposed to be moved by the catch in your voice and the doe-eyed look of tragedy on your wife's face?
Certainly, you're getting no sympathy whatsoever from any source I can find, either domestic, European or global.
So, can anyone think of a single thing you achieved in your 6 years of do-nothing incompetence? Economic probity? How's that looking now? Controlling immigration? I think the verdict's in on that. Good management of public services? Find a single person in the police, NHS, social services or public education who has a good thing to say about your administration.
Add to this the very real and highly probable split of the UK into England and Wales, a Scotland still in Europe, and renewed sectarian division in Northern Ireland, now that the genie of a united Ireland referendum is on the table, and he goes from being a nincompoop to be a wrecking ball of an entire society.
In comparison, Gordon Brown looks like a political giant; Blair mendacious but at least competent; Major, flawed, but with the balls to front up to the 'bastards' in his own party.
I think Cameron's 'legacy' is secure as the worst PM in living memory. Anyone disagree?
What was the likelihood that Cameron's ministers would have revolted with a no confidence vote? 80%? 50%? From what I've read, Cameron could have survived an intra-party challenge on Brexit.I think youre putting the blame on Cameron too much there- he couldn't ignore calls for a referendum because his ministers would have revolted with a no confidence vote.
He will be remembered as the guy who broke up the UK. Poor guy.
A good day for Merkel, now she will not get all the blame for the pain that follows gross recklessness.
And I thought that USA won the question of who has the worst leaders.
It is time for a rethink on that.
USA doesn't have the worst leaders, just the worst voters.
Cameron was an idiot, and deserve the blame. The only reason he made the referendum was because he was certain that he would win, not because he wanted to give Britain the opportunity to decide their future.
Blair was mendacious, but not the worst ever and I don't think anyone has claimed that. At least he was competent in managing domestic policy.
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