David Cameron: the worst Prime Minister in UK history?

[Andalublue]

Honestly I really liked Blair,

I didn't, since he rose to power on the back of socialists, internationalists and peace-makers and betrayed them all in order to pander to Bush and the neo-cons.

I think if it hadn't of been for Iraq, he'd be considered one of the best Prime Ministers of the modern age.

Maybe, although his reputation as a great manager of the economy and the social-democratic state was really the achievement of others such as Brown, Darling, Straw, Milburn etc.

 

[Hawkeye10]

USA doesn't have the worst leaders, just the worst voters.

Cameron was an idiot, and deserve the blame. The only reason he made the referendum was because he was certain that he would win, not because he wanted to give Britain the opportunity to decide their future.

A year ago everyone was certain that Trump would not win, which was wrong for the same reason Cameron was wrong, the elite have lost their followers, and did not know it because they did not care to look. JEB! was encouraged back fall 2014 to spend I think it was under $1 million ($700K if memory serves) to do a detailed 50 state sensing polling, he vetoed to expense line, said it was a waste of money cause everyone knew what the voters wanted.

OOPS!

 

[Andalublue]

A year ago everyone was certain that Trump would not win, which was wrong for the same reason Cameron was wrong, the elite have lost their followers, and did not know it because they did not care to look. JEB! was encouraged back fall 2014 to spend I think it was under $1 million ($700K if memory serves) to do a detailed 50 state sensing polling, he vetoed to expense line, said it was a waste of money cause everyone knew what the voters wanted.

OOPS!

Trump will not win. You can hold me to that.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Trump will not win. You can hold me to that.

Whistling past the graveyard....

 

[Andalublue]

Whistling past the graveyard....

I don't know that expression, but I've called a few elections correctly. How about you? Were you one of those ·"Romney's got it in the bag" types? I guess you were.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I don't know that expression, but I've called a few elections correctly. How about you? Were you one of those ·"Romney's got it in the bag" types? I guess you were.

No, I was an Obama supporter.

 

[Andalublue]

No, I was an Obama supporter.

If you say so. None of my experience of your posting style and content would lead anyone to that conclusion however. I can't conceive of what aspects of his programme you thought would align with your beliefs or attitudes.

 

[Hawkeye10]

If you say so. None of my experience of your posting style and content would lead anyone to that conclusion however. I can't conceive of what aspects of his programme you thought would align with your beliefs or attitudes.

I am guessing that you are not aware of the fact that I am born and raised from a known CHicago suburb either, though I have mentioned it a few times. Just starters on what you dont know because you are not fully versed in my "posting style and content" though you are going to pretend to know for effect I am sure. There are hundreds of posts at another place of me praising and hoping for the man I now refer to as THE PROFESSOR..... that 1.5 years I liked Obama A LOT....... before he showed with his actions that he is none too bright, and that he is a world class asshole who is too obsessed with himself and his utopian dreams to care about the people most of the time. If you want to know how to access them PM me please.

No, most likely you remember sorta kinda three ideas that I agree with that you dont like, though there is no reason to expect that if we were to argue the point that you would win, but you have never even considered that you might lose because you are you.

ANYWAYS, 3.3/10 on the bull**** quality meter is your score.

I try to hang out with the smart fun people.

3.3 ain't all that great.

jsyk.

 

[iguanaman]

So, farewell then, David Cameron. You failed to deal with the Eurosceptics in the party of which you were supposed to be the leader, so you tossed a coin for the future of your country, the EU and the global economy, and guess what? It came up tails. Now you're legging it with your huge pension-for-life and your dad's ill-gotten riches stashed in Panama and somehow we're supposed to be moved by the catch in your voice and the doe-eyed look of tragedy on your wife's face?

Certainly, you're getting no sympathy whatsoever from any source I can find, either domestic, European or global.

So, can anyone think of a single thing you achieved in your 6 years of do-nothing incompetence? Economic probity? How's that looking now? Controlling immigration? I think the verdict's in on that. Good management of public services? Find a single person in the police, NHS, social services or public education who has a good thing to say about your administration.

Add to this the very real and highly probable split of the UK into England and Wales, a Scotland still in Europe, and renewed sectarian division in Northern Ireland, now that the genie of a united Ireland referendum is on the table, and he goes from being a nincompoop to be a wrecking ball of an entire society.

In comparison, Gordon Brown looks like a political giant; Blair mendacious but at least competent; Major, flawed, but with the balls to front up to the 'bastards' in his own party.

I think Cameron's 'legacy' is secure as the worst PM in living memory. Anyone disagree?

No I could not disagree. In fact I would chalk Cameron right up there with GW Bush as examples of how bad a leader can be. It is probably only a coincidence that they are both Conservative. Not.
Both of them succeeded in crashing their economies and making their countries weaker. When will voters learn...never trust a Conservative.

 

[PoS]

The referendum was a sop to prevent the Conservatives from falling apart; The benefit of a Conservative split might have been to get all the major parties agreeing on some form of PR in our election system to get some real democracy, the Labour Party would probably also have split between Greens and Liberals as well. I don't think that Cameron is actually the worst but, he is the PM that gambled with his country in order to keep power and, no amount of flag waving is going to absolve the Conservative Party of that stark reality, remember that when you see them waving flags at the next party conference.

For me, the vote was too close to move on and, those calling for unity have missed the point, this is going to divide the UK worse than any borders around the home nations.

I think anyone in his position would have called for a referendum, the issue was such a hot button topic that it would have been political suicide to ignore it. Cameron gambled ...and lost. Now the ball is in the court of the Scottish nationalists, can they whip up enough support to leave the UK?

 

[Hawkeye10]

I think anyone in his position would have called for a referendum, the issue was such a hot button topic that it would have been political suicide to ignore it. Cameron gambled ...and lost. Now the ball is in the court of the Scottish nationalists, can they whip up enough support to leave the UK?

So let me see if I have this....... No one had ever done a referendum to get out, in fact there is near nothing in the EU rules about getting out because doing this is THAT unthinkable....and anyone/everyone would have done it at this particular time and place??!!

Ya, No.

 

[PoS]

So let me see if I have this....... No one had ever done a referendum to get out, in fact there is near nothing in the EU rules about getting out because doing this is THAT unthinkable....and anyone/everyone would have done it at this particular time and place??!!

Ya, No.

Wrong. Read up on article 50 of the Lisbon treaty. There has always been regulations in place if a member country voted to leave the EU.

 

[Serenity]

Wrong. Read up on article 50 of the Lisbon treaty. There has always been regulations in place if a member country voted to leave the EU.

Yes, you are correct.

The wording of Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty for those who are interested. It consists of just five short paragraphs.

Article 50

 

[Hawkeye10]

Wrong. Read up on article 50 of the Lisbon treaty. There has always been regulations in place if a member country voted to leave the EU.

250 words =almost nothing in my books.

Your mileage may vary.

And that is ok.

 

[PoS]

250 words =almost nothing in my books.

Your mileage may vary.

And that is ok.

Thats more words than the US 2nd amendment. You made a claim that there were no such rules for an exit and I proved otherwise.

 

[Ben K.]

Plus Boris looking rather brow beaten. Then we have half the Labour Party shadow cabinet resigning and Lib Dems running on a platform of ignoring referendum results.

Pretty poor generation of politicians, aside from Sturgeon, who is playing a blinder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Andalublue]

Pretty poor generation of politicians, aside from Sturgeon, who is playing a blinder.

Agree with that 100%. I think I said it during the 2015 GE campaign, had Nicola Sturgeon been in the running for the whole of the UK, she'd have had my vote. I'm anything but a nationalist of any hue, but someone who is competent, socially progressive, calm and moderate with a degree of political charisma that makes you trust them is someone I'd vote for, even if I didn't share 100% of their policies.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

~ had Nicola Sturgeon been in the running ~

Both she and Ruth Davidson acquitted themselves really well. You do get however a real sense of passion for the defence of her country from Sturgeon, I know I ran her down when she first took over from Salmond but she has really grown into the job.

 

[Andalublue]

Both she and Ruth Davidson acquitted themselves really well. You do get however a real sense of passion for the defence of her country from Sturgeon, I know I ran her down when she first took over from Salmond but she has really grown into the job.

She's the kind of political leader that the UK has far too few of. She believes what she says. She has a vision for how she wants her government and country to progress. She fronts up to opponents in an uncompromising and passionate fashion, you just know that she has fight in her. How different from Cameron, the Brexit leaders, and the Labour coup plotters.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

~ political leader that the UK has far too few of ~

Absolutely and I'm sorry but I include Labour here too. You may like and support Corbyn but he was lacklustre and I'm not going anywhere near his horrible politics.

On another point -

House of Parliament - majority of MPs wish for remain and somehow they have to vote on and approve the final Brexit stages.
Labour - majority of members support Corbyn but the majority of MPs do not.
Conservative Party - 135 or so support Brexit and 185 Remain.

The Labour Party gives us a foreboding of how things may go - those 135 tories may have to join the DUP and 10 Labour MPs to create some kind of government to force Brexit through.

How will Corbyn create a cabinet when nearly all his parliamentary colleagues don't support him?

 

[Andalublue]

Absolutely and I'm sorry but I include Labour here too. You may like and support Corbyn but he was lacklustre and I'm not going anywhere near his horrible politics.

On another point -

House of Parliament - majority of MPs wish for remain and somehow they have to vote on and approve the final Brexit stages.
Labour - majority of members support Corbyn but the majority of MPs do not.
Conservative Party - 135 or so support Brexit and 185 Remain.

The Labour Party gives us a foreboding of how things may go - those 135 tories may have to join the DUP and 10 Labour MPs to create some kind of government to force Brexit through.

How will Corbyn create a cabinet when nearly all his parliamentary colleagues don't support him?

I have a feeling that Labour may split again, as happened with the SDP. The majority of the PLP may indeed trigger a new leadership election. Will they manage to prevent Corbyn from getting the required number of MPs to nominate him? Probably, and then he'd be excluded from the leadership election. But what then? The trades unions in the vast majority support Corbyn. The rank-and-file support Corbyn overwhelmingly. Still.

If a new general election is called, every single one of those coup-minded Labour MPs will have to be reselected by their local constituency GMCs in order to stand as official Labour Party candidates. Many, many of them will be deselected and Corbyn supporters will be selected in their place. Does that make Labour more electable? No, not necessarily. But those puffed-up by having once won a seat in parliament will see it as their destiny to stand against the new official Labour candidates, and some will win. Who do they now represent? Not the Labour Party, since the modern Labour Party is now the party of Corbyn and Momentum and the trades unions.

What we're seeing in the wake of last Thursday's disastrous referendum is a complete break-down of British party politics.

Now to the Conservatives. Who will they elect as their new leader, and the new PM? Will they elect Johnson and Gove's 'dream team'? I very much doubt it. Johnson's personal ambition is so evident and so naked in its careerism that the pro-remain majority of Tory MPs will make sure that his name never appears on the shortlist of two that they recommend to the party. Just like Labour, the Tory party at large is totally out of step with the parliamentary Tory party. The party in the country would vote for Boris like a shot. The Tory MPs who see him as having destroyed a recently-elected Tory government will know that by nominating him they will have effectively elected him. I doubt they'll allow that to happen when their preferred option of Teresa May is clearly ready, willing and able to take up the baton.

So, what happens if the Tory parliamentary party proposes May and a make-weight like Fox as the candidates for the party to vote on? May wins. But does she, because Boris and Gove are going nowhere? They would remain as arch-underminers of any leadership that they are not the main movers within.

The question in the Tory party is, are the Tory centrists and Cameronites willing to allow the libertarian and far-right of their party to take over and return the party to the neo-lib and neo-con 'nasty' party of the Thatcher years, and thereby laying themselves open to being purged by those whose deepest analysis consists of "are they for us or against us"?

We live in interesting times, especially in the UK, but also elsewhere in Europe. And don't even get me started on the continuing anarchy after yesterday's repeated deadlock in Spanish politics!

 

[Infinite Chaos]

~ We live in interesting times, especially in the UK ~

Agree most of your points Andy, how do you see Parliament which overwhelmingly do not support Brexit dealing with the issue if it comes to a vote on whatever deal is put forward?
Jeremy Hunt is suggesting a new referendum or general election on the issue.

 

[BitterPill]

So, farewell then, David Cameron. You failed to deal with the Eurosceptics in the party of which you were supposed to be the leader, so you tossed a coin for the future of your country, the EU and the global economy, and guess what? It came up tails. Now you're legging it with your huge pension-for-life and your dad's ill-gotten riches stashed in Panama and somehow we're supposed to be moved by the catch in your voice and the doe-eyed look of tragedy on your wife's face?

Certainly, you're getting no sympathy whatsoever from any source I can find, either domestic, European or global.

So, can anyone think of a single thing you achieved in your 6 years of do-nothing incompetence? Economic probity? How's that looking now? Controlling immigration? I think the verdict's in on that. Good management of public services? Find a single person in the police, NHS, social services or public education who has a good thing to say about your administration.

Add to this the very real and highly probable split of the UK into England and Wales, a Scotland still in Europe, and renewed sectarian division in Northern Ireland, now that the genie of a united Ireland referendum is on the table, and he goes from being a nincompoop to be a wrecking ball of an entire society.

In comparison, Gordon Brown looks like a political giant; Blair mendacious but at least competent; Major, flawed, but with the balls to front up to the 'bastards' in his own party.

I think Cameron's 'legacy' is secure as the worst PM in living memory. Anyone disagree?

I have to give that title to Chamberlain, but Cameron is most assuredly a failure.

 

[BitterPill]

And I thought that USA won the question of who has the worst leaders.

It is time for a rethink on that.

There is always Italy.

 

[BitterPill]

Whistling past the graveyard....

I'd even enter into a friendly wager with you if interested. That way I'd know you actually believe what you write.