Dark Matter is Invisible, does not emit Energy or Light and it's about 80% of the Universe's mass.

[William Rea]

Playing can lead to children getting hurt and to science becoming erroneous. Musing, playful speculation and inspiration play small roles in the passion play of science but evidence, proof and falsification are kings in the Kingdom of Theories and the Counties of Hypotheses. Play may light the match, but the scientific method, rigorously applied, is the muscle which shovels the coal and drives the engine of learning along the trackways towards understanding. The caveat is that rambunctious playing with matches can burn the whole scientific engine down and strand us by the wayside in ignorance and superstition. A match is also a stick with which we can put our own eyes out.

Crikey, the cliches are running rampant in this sloppy cascade of metaphors. I have to stop and learn more about Lord Kelvin's work on the sun or professor Che Dawkins will be putting the stick to me.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

I put no imperative on you whatsoever so don't pretend that I am, for effect.

 

[zyzygy]

Obviously, the brainy among us are constantly trying to make sense of what they observe.

It seems like the more we discover, the more is left to understand. We climb on the shoulders of giants in order to expand our reach. Our collective grasp seems not to be as quickly enhanced.

Finding the answers seems less like a goal and more like a pursuit.

Children playing in wonder and joy.

Re standing on the shoulders of giants. Newtons's famous statement was actually a dig at Hooke who was a hunchback.
https://www.brainpickings.org/2016/02/16/newton-standing-on-the-shoulders-of-giants/

 

[zyzygy]

Playing can lead to children getting hurt and to science becoming erroneous. Musing, playful speculation and inspiration play small roles in the passion play of science but evidence, proof and falsification are kings in the Kingdom of Theories and the Counties of Hypotheses. Play may light the match, but the scientific method, rigorously applied, is the muscle which shovels the coal and drives the engine of learning along the trackways towards understanding. The caveat is that rambunctious playing with matches can burn the whole scientific engine down and strand us by the wayside in ignorance and superstition. A match is also a stick with which we can put our own eyes out.

Crikey, the cliches are running rampant in this sloppy cascade of metaphors. I have to stop and learn more about Lord Kelvin's work on the sun or professor Che Dawkins will be putting the stick to me.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Why the Dawkins obsession?

 

[William Rea]

Why the Dawkins obsession?

My latest avatar. Needs changing again from the sound of it

 

[Evilroddy]

I put no imperative on you whatsoever so don't pretend that I am, for effect.

William Rea:

Okay, the imperative is all mine now, but thank you nonetheless for spurring me on (and by using spurring I am not implying anything other than impetus).

Cheers.
Evillroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

Why the Dawkins obsession?

zyzygy:

As William Rea correctly pointed it out it was a silly reference to his avatar and not a function of any obsession on my part.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[zyzygy]

zyzygy:

As William Rea correctly pointed it out it was a silly reference to his avatar and not a function of any obsession on my part.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

I'm glad to hear it.

Hwyl nawr
Zyzygy

 

[code1211]

Playing can lead to children getting hurt and to science becoming erroneous. Musing, playful speculation and inspiration play small roles in the passion play of science but evidence, proof and falsification are kings in the Kingdom of Theories and the Counties of Hypotheses. Play may light the match, but the scientific method, rigorously applied, is the muscle which shovels the coal and drives the engine of learning along the trackways towards understanding. The caveat is that rambunctious playing with matches can burn the whole scientific engine down and strand us by the wayside in ignorance and superstition. A match is also a stick with which we can put our own eyes out.

Crikey, the cliches are running rampant in this sloppy cascade of metaphors. I have to stop and learn more about Lord Kelvin's work on the sun or professor Che Dawkins will be putting the stick to me.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

I have to admit, you were starting to sound like an NFL Coach in a post game press conference.

Those guys are cliche and metaphor machines.

 

[code1211]

What utter gibberish!!

I do not put my faith in any god.

When somebody says something that has a chance of sinking into your head you just hit the gibberish button to avoid thinking about it.

I stated EXACTLY what you said in a different way.

 

[code1211]

No.



No.



Being an experienced war gamer particularly of WWII I can say with considerable authority that you are wrong.

The British Empire had more troops than that in India. They were not withdrawn to the UK because that was not necessary. Germany could not invade England untill the Royal Navy was smashed or untill they had laid a very effective mine cordon either side of their intended invaision position. Both would have taken a long time and needed the RAF to be smashed first.

The Battle of Britian involved half the availible fighters in Britian. That's how paniced the air marshalls were. The rest in the North were availible for replenishng the units in the forward South East of England but it was not needed to do so.

The strategy of slowly building up, using the resources of the whole world, to beat a European land power and return the continent to a hppily divided condition was not new. It is something we are practiced at.

As far as I am aware there has only ever been one occaision when a land power has defeated a naval one. That would be Sparta defeating Athens once. It did not last long though. They came back.

I understand that religious/arts education thinking is wooly and not requiring rigor but otherwise you should know something of what you talk and not put words in other's mouths.

Despite your hindsight of the situation benefitting from the full light of history, there was a powerful and influential group in the British government ready to sue for peace prior to any of the scenarios you describe being put into action.

Denying the power of art, creativity and curiosity in favor of the drudgery of regimented thinking is one choice we can make. Like anything else, a wider frame of reference seems to help with any consideration.

Self limitation is not an enriching choice. It's a choice that literally limits possibilities.

Being completely vested in one discipline or another is not a good thing for any individual. Both sail and rudder are essential to progress, each employed in balance with the other.

Einstein said this better than I:

 

[code1211]

Yes, see magnetism.

Perfect! We agree!

 

[Evilroddy]

Tim the Plumber wrote:

Being an experienced war gamer particularly of WWII I can say with considerable authority that you are wrong.

Tim the Plumber:

Well, well, well. A fellow wargamer! Cool! Do you do miniature table-top wargaming or limit yourself to board games and computer games? Also a WWII gamer! Cooler still. I do Biblical, Ancients, Dark Age and Medieval, WWI, WWII and Modern miniature gaming in 15mm and 6mm. I also play cardboard counter war games but not computer games. To be honest I'm in a rut these days about painting minis and gaming but hopefully I will shake off the cobwebs and get back on track. Do you game other periods than WWII? Well, we may disagree about the proper boundaries between faith and reason in science but it is very cool to learn we are fellow travellers in the world of military gaming. Are you on The Wargames Website, Lead Adventure Forum or any other gaming forum? PM me if you wish to open a conversation on common ground and perhaps we can begin anew!

Apologies to all for this momentary hijack of the thread. We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[Evilroddy]

I'm glad to hear it.

Hwyl nawr
Zyzygy

zyzygy:

Welsh, boyo? I had assumed you were Flemish but clearly that assumption is now in question. It is a smaller world than it used to be I guess. It also explains why your Captain Beefheart avatar picture looks strangely like the famous 18th Century Welsh folk heroine of the Battle of Fishguard, Jemima Fawr.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[code1211]

Re standing on the shoulders of giants. Newtons's famous statement was actually a dig at Hooke who was a hunchback.
https://www.brainpickings.org/2016/02/16/newton-standing-on-the-shoulders-of-giants/

Thank you! That was fun!

I love it when the British use verbiage to disembowel their adversaries intellectually.

They're so civilized and deadly!

 

[Tim the plumber]

Despite your hindsight of the situation benefitting from the full light of history, there was a powerful and influential group in the British government ready to sue for peace prior to any of the scenarios you describe being put into action.

Denying the power of art, creativity and curiosity in favor of the drudgery of regimented thinking is one choice we can make. Like anything else, a wider frame of reference seems to help with any consideration.

Self limitation is not an enriching choice. It's a choice that literally limits possibilities.

Being completely vested in one discipline or another is not a good thing for any individual. Both sail and rudder are essential to progress, each employed in balance with the other.

Einstein said this better than I:

Science is highly creative.

Talking gibberish is not heplful in any circumstance. Unless all you wish to do is avoid the subject at hand.

 

[zyzygy]

zyzygy:

Welsh, boyo? I had assumed you were Flemish but clearly that assumption is now in question. It is a smaller world than it used to be I guess. It also explains why your Captain Beefheart avatar picture looks strangely like the famous 18th Century Welsh folk heroine of the Battle of Fishguard, Jemima Fawr.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

A great story. I would call the place Abergwaun. Fishguard is the Saesneg name.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Tim the Plumber wrote:



Tim the Plumber:

Well, well, well. A fellow wargamer! Cool! Do you do miniature table-top wargaming or limit yourself to board games and computer games? Also a WWII gamer! Cooler still. I do Biblical, Ancients, Dark Age and Medieval, WWI, WWII and Modern miniature gaming in 15mm and 6mm. I also play cardboard counter war games but not computer games. To be honest I'm in a rut these days about painting minis and gaming but hopefully I will shake off the cobwebs and get back on track. Do you game other periods than WWII? Well, we may disagree about the proper boundaries between faith and reason in science but it is very cool to learn we are fellow travellers in the world of military gaming. Are you on The Wargames Website, Lead Adventure Forum or any other gaming forum? PM me if you wish to open a conversation on common ground and perhaps we can begin anew!

Apologies to all for this momentary hijack of the thread. We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

I am indeed experienced with many periods and flavors of gaming.

May I recomend the Total War serries of computer games. Table top battles with attached campaign game. Classical Rome to Napolionics and fantasy. Several years of life can be lost to them.

I am not on any gaming forums. And it is perhaps a little far for a table top meeting between us.

 

[SirGareth]

So all cosmologists and astronomers are atheists. I spot a logical fault there. Unless you have proof of your statement. Make a start upon explaining.

RE: "There are many Christian scientists and astronomers"

"There are many aardvarks and zebras" this does not mean the aardvarks are also zebras

I am an astronomer as was Copernicus, neither he nor I are/were cosmogonists.

Equivocation: Christian Scientists don't believe in taking aspirin, I am a Christian who is also an astronomer and I take an aspirin every day.

RE: "So all cosmologists and astronomers are atheists."

Did I say that? Did I ever even use the term "astronomer?"

Some Jews are atheists, others are Christians, some may even be Muslims or Buddhists. The faith of astronomers is not relevant to my thesis statement.

I said that cosmogony was a religion (ie a particular system of "faith" [faith: complete trust or confidence in someone or something])

So what is your basis of belief that the universe is 13.8 billion years old: is it faith in cosmogony or have you a proof?

Here is my original statement, stick to the knitting:

Cosmogony is a church for atheists; it demands faith in things that can never be proven and therefore clearly can not be called science.

 

[zyzygy]

RE: "There are many Christian scientists and astronomers"

"There are many aardvarks and zebras" this does not mean the aardvarks are also zebras

I am an astronomer as was Copernicus, neither he nor I are/were cosmogonists.

Equivocation: Christian Scientists don't believe in taking aspirin, I am a Christian who is also an astronomer and I take an aspirin every day.

RE: "So all cosmologists and astronomers are atheists."

Did I say that? Did I ever even use the term "astronomer?"

Some Jews are atheists, others are Christians, some may even be Muslims or Buddhists. The faith of astronomers is not relevant to my thesis statement.

I said that cosmogony was a religion (ie a particular system of "faith" [faith: complete trust or confidence in someone or something])

So what is your basis of belief that the universe is 13.8 billion years old: is it faith in cosmogony or have you a proof?

I have proof. Are you a YEC?

https://www.space.com/24054-how-old-is-the-universe.html

 

[RAMOSS]

RE: "There are many Christian scientists and astronomers"

"There are many aardvarks and zebras" this does not mean the aardvarks are also zebras

I am an astronomer as was Copernicus, neither he nor I are/were cosmogonists.

Equivocation: Christian Scientists don't believe in taking aspirin, I am a Christian who is also an astronomer and I take an aspirin every day.

RE: "So all cosmologists and astronomers are atheists."

Did I say that? Did I ever even use the term "astronomer?"

Some Jews are atheists, others are Christians, some may even be Muslims or Buddhists. The faith of astronomers is not relevant to my thesis statement.

I said that cosmogony was a religion (ie a particular system of "faith" [faith: complete trust or confidence in someone or something])

So what is your basis of belief that the universe is 13.8 billion years old: is it faith in cosmogony or have you a proof?

Here is my original statement, stick to the knitting:

You are doing the logical fallacy known as 'equivocation'. The term 'Christian Scientist' is referring to a specific Christian denomination. As an astronomer, you happen to be a scientist who is Christian, but you do not belong to the sect "Christian Scientist'

 

[Angel]

The burden lies with you making a compelling case for your delusions. My burden of evidence has already been met and thank you for assisting me in showing that our propensity for delusion is widespread throughout humanity, indeed, 84% of people believing a delusion is great evidence.

Ah! The Dawkins Delusion!
Tsk, tsk. A man of your intelligence!

 

[code1211]

Science is highly creative.

Talking gibberish is not heplful in any circumstance. Unless all you wish to do is avoid the subject at hand.

It's interesting that you deny the validity of things with which you disagree or simply don't grasp.

I agree that Science is highly creative AND

that art is highly analytical.

The Augmentation of focused vision is best accomplished using a tunnel.

 

[Tim the plumber]

It's interesting that you deny the validity of things with which you disagree or simply don't grasp.

I agree that Science is highly creative AND

that art is highly analytical.

The Augmentation of focused vision is best accomplished using a tunnel.

Talking gibberish is not a substitute for imagination.

If you are going to talk about dark matter you need to understand it to some degree. It is a physics thing not an emotional thing.

 

[code1211]

Talking gibberish is not a substitute for imagination.

If you are going to talk about dark matter you need to understand it to some degree. It is a physics thing not an emotional thing.

Right...

What is it?

 

[Tim the plumber]

Right...

What is it?

It is something that has attributes similar to mass in that it creates gravity and is affected by the gravity of other bodies but does not interact with other stuff in the electrical way normal atomic mass does.

It not an excuse to get all spiritual.