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Dark Matter is Invisible, does not emit Energy or Light and it's about 80% of the Universe's mass.

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It is something that has attributes similar to mass in that it creates gravity and is affected by the gravity of other bodies but does not interact with other stuff in the electrical way normal atomic mass does.

It not an excuse to get all spiritual.

So, in other words, you don't know.

That's okay. You can say it.

Everyone already understands this to be an unknown.

You can talk around it all you like, but that will not make it into something that is not an unknown.

I find it amusing that you have have absolutely no idea what it is, but you are absolutely, dead certain about what it is not.

This kind of certainty is amusing, frightening and sad.
 
It will be somehing physical.

It will be whatever it is.

As far as I know, and that is a very short "far", the sum total of energy and mater in the Universe is unchanging.

Dark Matter is called "Dark" because they simply don't know what it is. They know it does affect matter, but cannot see it, feel it or experience it except by its effect on the matter that can be experienced.

This sounds less like matter and more like energy.
 
It will be whatever it is.

As far as I know, and that is a very short "far", the sum total of energy and mater in the Universe is unchanging.

Dark Matter is called "Dark" because they simply don't know what it is. They know it does affect matter, but cannot see it, feel it or experience it except by its effect on the matter that can be experienced.

This sounds less like matter and more like energy.

It could be, but not a mystical form of energy.
 
Dark Matter is an interesting thing. It can't be seen and can't be quantified except that it must be there. It acts on things we can see. If it's not there, everything would be different.

Stars orbiting the centers of Galaxies are moving fast enough that they'd be thrown free if there was not a great deal more mass "holding them in" than can be measured in our "physical" universe.

There has to be more mass present, but it is undetectable to us. We cannot see it, cannot feel it, cannot taste it, smell it or hear it. We can only measure its effect on things we can see.

Without jumping to unjustified conclusions, this seems to conform to descriptions of spiritual or mystical events/objects/beings.

Our Physical Universe is just a small fraction of the whole. Dark matter seems to flow through the universe invisibly, but, well, universally. If you are reading this, Dark Matter is currently between you and the screen on which the words appear.

Especially at this time of year when the spiritual and mystical is contemplated, it seems appropriate to understand that most of our reality has been revealed scientifically to be beyond our rational comprehension. Whether you're a devotee of religion or Star Wars, it seems Hamlet was right: "There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

It seems reasonable to assume that if Dark Matter can redirect the course of Stars, it's pretty powerful stuff.

Is massively augmented gravity Dark Matter's only purpose? Seems like there are lots of questions just now being considered.

What Is Dark Matter? | Research

Yeah, sure. If we can't explain it, it must be god. He, after all, is the mystical variable that many morons and a some geniuses conveniently use to fill in the gaps whenever necessary. Personally, I'd rather say I don't know than to constantly interject the untestable qualities of super nature into the conversation. That just feels like defeat.
 
It could be, but not a mystical form of energy.

You seem to be absolutely certain.

What if the events recognized as mystical are only very rare intersections with a different Universe. What if the mystical is the physical, but simply not understandable to you.

You seem to be asserting that you are supporting scientific inquiry and closing off entire areas of possibility. You seem to already know the Truth.

Your attitudes seem to resemble less those of Galileo and more those of the Church.
 
You seem to be absolutely certain.

What if the events recognized as mystical are only very rare intersections with a different Universe. What if the mystical is the physical, but simply not understandable to you.

You seem to be asserting that you are supporting scientific inquiry and closing off entire areas of possibility. You seem to already know the Truth.

Your attitudes seem to resemble less those of Galileo and more those of the Church.

No mystical forms of energy have ever been discovered so I will stick to reality.
 
Yeah, sure. If we can't explain it, it must be god. He, after all, is the mystical variable that many morons and a some geniuses conveniently use to fill in the gaps whenever necessary. Personally, I'd rather say I don't know than to constantly interject the untestable qualities of super nature into the conversation. That just feels like defeat.

So, then, your argument is to ignore what I posted and take off on a tangent you prefer?

Alrighty, then!
 
No mystical forms of energy have ever been discovered so I will stick to reality.

You are free to close of avenues of inquiry that you might pursue. You are also free to pursue them.

Everyone is.



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[h=2]Ralph Waldo Emerson > Quotes > Quotable Quote[/h][h=1]“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”[/h]
Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance



 
Dark matter is real, though what it exactly is, we are still looking for the answer.
 
So, in other words, you don't know.

That's okay. You can say it.

Everyone already understands this to be an unknown.

You can talk around it all you like, but that will not make it into something that is not an unknown.

I find it amusing that you have have absolutely no idea what it is, but you are absolutely, dead certain about what it is not.

This kind of certainty is amusing, frightening and sad.

We do not know what it is.

That is no excuse to put onto it silly ideas of superstition with no support!

It is extremely sad to project is such a needy way onto aspects of the physical universe.
 
Dark matter has never been proven to exist in the lab. It only appears to exist based on circumstantial evidence. In my opinion, dark matter is a fudge factor, that is needed, due to flaws in fundamental theories that mischaracterize the universe.

One such theory is connected to the assumption that there is no center of the universe and therefore all references are relative. It is assumed that the universe expands, at each point, in all directions at the same time. This assumption makes it impossible to do a proper energy balance for the universe. A better estimate of the universe, would require absolute references with a hierarchy.

As an analogy, say we were on a train moving 50 mph. We look out the window and see someone sitting at the train station. To us, sitting on the train, it can appear like the person at the station, is moving at 50 mph, and that we are stationary. Both references can see a relative motion of 50 mph. Although our motion may appear to be relative, if you do an energy balance, energy is not relative, since a train moving at 50 mph, has more kinetic energy, than a person moving at 50 mph.

With the assumption of no center to the universe, and all references are relative, we have arbitrarily picked the earth as the relative center, to do the universe energy balance. The result is an underestimate of the universe. In our example, we assume picking the person, as the standard reference, is as good as picking the train, since both see the same relative motion. This will result in an underestimate of energy.

Observations have appeared that add energy. This new energy addendum is called dark matter and dark energy, This adds up to the train moving, but we cannot say this, since would imply an absolute hierarchy of references, as well as a center. Instead we stick with relative reference and no center, and add dark matter.

In special relativity, Einstein equations had three changing variables; time, distance and mass. Observations of the universe, with our various science instruments, are all based on energy signals. The telescope uses visible light. We can use IR and x-rays. All these tools take care of the time and distance variables of special relativity, since energy is based on wavelength; distance and frequency; time. On the other hand, we cannot directly measure mass, but have to infer the third variable of special relativistic; mass, from energy.

Mass is the fuzzy relativity variable. However, this is needed to make the universe absolute, in terms of references, since mass is an invariant. Energy is relative but mass is not. However, energy is the only thing we can directly measure. This has defaulted the assumptions of the universe, to the relative nature of energy; time and distance, instead of the invariant nature of mass, since energy is the preponderance of the hard data. Science has fallen into a philosophical rabbit hole.
 
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We do not know what it is.

That is no excuse to put onto it silly ideas of superstition with no support!

It is extremely sad to project is such a needy way onto aspects of the physical universe.



There is wide spread belief in a great, world wide, variably defined power not understood by our great minds.

Our great minds now assert that there actually IS is a power present throughout our universe and possibly beyond not understood by our great minds.

All I'm putting forth is the question asking whether or not these powers might be the same thing.

I am asking a question and you are asserting I have no right to ask that question. You are asserting that the question should NEVER be asked.

Seems a little less than open minded to me.
 
Dark matter has never been proven to exist in the lab. It only appears to exist based on circumstantial evidence.

It required a 40 year search ending in 2012 to discover the Higgs boson.

Simply because we have not yet isolated/explained a phenomenon does not automatically relegate it to the realms of pseudoscience or mysticism.
 
There is wide spread belief in a great, world wide, variably defined power not understood by our great minds.

Our great minds now assert that there actually IS is a power present throughout our universe and possibly beyond not understood by our great minds.

All I'm putting forth is the question asking whether or not these powers might be the same thing.

I am asking a question and you are asserting I have no right to ask that question. You are asserting that the question should NEVER be asked.

Seems a little less than open minded to me.

Humanity has had drivel based thinking for a long time.

The enlightenment came along with the idea that you should never take anybody's word for it and that you should presume it to be drivel untill shown not to be.

This sort of thinking has resulted in 300 years of spectacular progress. We are on the threshold of victory over local space travel, cancer, poverty, war and many other restrictions on human greatness. All this is put at risk by the undermining of clear thought by being polite to drivel speakers.

If you want to talk about a subject you should know something about it!
 
So, then, your argument is to ignore what I posted and take off on a tangent you prefer?

Alrighty, then!

Well, you did post the sentence "Without jumping to unjustified conclusions, this seems to conform to descriptions of spiritual or mystical events/objects/beings.". Do you see nothing contradictory in that? Saying it seems to conform with magic is the biggest ****ing unjustified conclusion that a person CAN jump to.
 
Well, you did post the sentence "Without jumping to unjustified conclusions, this seems to conform to descriptions of spiritual or mystical events/objects/beings.". Do you see nothing contradictory in that? Saying it seems to conform with magic is the biggest ****ing unjustified conclusion that a person CAN jump to.

You can infer whatever you wish to infer. I can't have an impact on what you infer.

What I implied is exactly what the words said.

The definition of Dark Matter does in truth seem to conform to the descriptions of spiritual/mystical stuff.

A good response to me, if you disagree with that statement, is to demonstrate in what way(s) the description of Dark Matter does NOT conform to spiritual/mystical stuff.
 
There is wide spread belief in a great, world wide, variably defined power not understood by our great minds.

Our great minds now assert that there actually IS is a power present throughout our universe and possibly beyond not understood by our great minds.

All I'm putting forth is the question asking whether or not these powers might be the same thing.

I am asking a question and you are asserting I have no right to ask that question. You are asserting that the question should NEVER be asked.

Seems a little less than open minded to me.

If we assume there is dark matter and dark energy, for the sake of argument, then this opens up interesting possibilities. We have never seen dark energy or dark matter in the lab. Therefore, science has yet to begin to define its nature and extrapolate its properties. All we know is dark matter and energy appear to be helping to shape the universe. Maybe someday, when we learn what dark matter and dark energy is, we may find it has many of the same extrapolating properties as regular matter and energy. This may include the appearance of dark matter life, that shapes the universe. We cannot yet preclude this, until we see dark matter and energy in the lab and can run further experiments.

The ancients believed in a similar extrapolated thing, associated alternate realms, such as heaven and hell. These were are not made of regular matter and energy, but were of different substances, and could impact the material realms; physical universe. Dark matter and energy is not new, in theory. The extrapolation was already started long ago. Science will need to do its own research to see where this begins and ends.
 
l_yuc_61cc03da413eb04e07e25aa3a5cd31f2



The composition of the Universe

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Three-dimensional distribution of dark matter in the Universe (artist's impression)

[Top] - Three slices through the evolving distribution of dark matter. The dataset is created by splitting the background source galaxy population into discrete epochs of time (like cutting through geologic strata), looking back into the past. This is calibrated by measuring the cosmological redshift of the lensing galaxies used to map the dark matter distribution, and binning them into different time/distance "slices". Each panel represents an area of sky nine times the angular diameter of the full Moon. Note that this fixed angle means that the survey volume is a really a cone, and that the physical area of the slices increases (from 60 million light-years on a side to 100 million light-years on a side) from left to right.

[Bottom] - When the slices across the Universe and back into time are combined, they make a three-dimensional map of dark matter in the Universe. The three axes of the box correspond to sky position (in right ascension and declination), and distance from the Earth increasing from left to right (as measured by cosmological redshift). Note how the clumping of the dark matter becomes more pronounced, moving right to left across the volume map, from the early Universe to the more recent Universe.

The dark matter distribution was mapped with Hubble Space Telescope's largest ever survey of the Universe, the Cosmic Evolution Survey ("COSMOS"). To compile the COSMOS survey, Hubble imaged 575 adjacent and slightly overlapping views of the Universe using the Advanced Camera for Surveys' (ACS) Wide Field Camera onboard Hubble. It took nearly 1,000 hours of observations. The distances to the galaxies were determined from their spectral redshifts, using ESO's Very Large Telescope, the Subaru and CFHT telescopes in Hawaii and the Magellan telescope in Chile.


As time advances, dark matter evolves from large amorphous 'clouds' to smaller clumps often connected by thin filaments. Galaxies tend to locate within these smaller clumps of dark matter. Dark matter seems to attract baryonic (normal) materials and appears to exert an [unknown mechanism] influence on the force of gravity.
 
You can infer whatever you wish to infer. I can't have an impact on what you infer.

What I implied is exactly what the words said.

The definition of Dark Matter does in truth seem to conform to the descriptions of spiritual/mystical stuff.

A good response to me, if you disagree with that statement, is to demonstrate in what way(s) the description of Dark Matter does NOT conform to spiritual/mystical stuff.

The only parallel is that you can't explain either and, thus, you are equivocating as if "I believe in super nature" is the same as "I don't know science". Nobody with a brain says that dark matter is magic and anyone who does is no better than a preacher masquerading as a scientist.

I am offended when I see people attempt to blur the boundaries of science with make believe. But, I also understand that it's a very human thing to ask questions and then fill in the gaps with bull****. That fact, however, doesn't excuse our ignorance, it explains how we wrongly deal with it.
 
The only parallel is that you can't explain either and, thus, you are equivocating as if "I believe in super nature" is the same as "I don't know science". Nobody with a brain says that dark matter is magic and anyone who does is no better than a preacher masquerading as a scientist.

I am offended when I see people attempt to blur the boundaries of science with make believe. But, I also understand that it's a very human thing to ask questions and then fill in the gaps with bull****. That fact, however, doesn't excuse our ignorance, it explains how we wrongly deal with it.

So, then, you cannot perform the simple exercise I requested.
 
So, then, you cannot perform the simple exercise I requested.

Not if the exercise is to treat science like a religion. Whatever dark matter is, it's not magic. This is where we go wrong a lot. We treat the educated guesses of the educated as no better than the uneducated guesses of the uneducated. All things are not equal.

Asking this forum what dark matter is is less likely to produce a reasonable answer than asking a kindergarten class how babies are made. You're going to get a variety of answers, all misinformed.
 
Dark Matter is an interesting thing. It can't be seen and can't be quantified except that it must be there. It acts on things we can see. If it's not there, everything would be different.

Stars orbiting the centers of Galaxies are moving fast enough that they'd be thrown free if there was not a great deal more mass "holding them in" than can be measured in our "physical" universe.

There has to be more mass present, but it is undetectable to us. We cannot see it, cannot feel it, cannot taste it, smell it or hear it. We can only measure its effect on things we can see.

Without jumping to unjustified conclusions, this seems to conform to descriptions of spiritual or mystical events/objects/beings.

Our Physical Universe is just a small fraction of the whole. Dark matter seems to flow through the universe invisibly, but, well, universally. If you are reading this, Dark Matter is currently between you and the screen on which the words appear.

Especially at this time of year when the spiritual and mystical is contemplated, it seems appropriate to understand that most of our reality has been revealed scientifically to be beyond our rational comprehension. Whether you're a devotee of religion or Star Wars, it seems Hamlet was right: "There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

It seems reasonable to assume that if Dark Matter can redirect the course of Stars, it's pretty powerful stuff.

Is massively augmented gravity Dark Matter's only purpose? Seems like there are lots of questions just now being considered.

What Is Dark Matter? | Research

Move this to Science & Technology
 
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