Daily Statistical Summary of COVID-19

[Conservative]

Yep, and if you do NOT want to contract COVID-19, then you do NOT want to be in the US.

If I do contract the virus due to my own failures, I want to be in this country for treatment, NOT yours!! You continue to focus on infections, not recoveries and certainly not the healthcare industry response

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

QUICK SUMMARY OF Comparative COVID-19 (Total Deaths/Total Cases) & Mortality Closed %
- Data source - COVID-19 Coronavirus Pandemic –
US figures are not accepted as reliable at this time.
​

20/07/20 – World (609,603/14,673,689) 4.15%[▼] / USA (143,310/3,899,358) 3.68%[▼] / Canada (8,852/110,338) 8.02%[▼]

20/07/25 – World (643,687/15,993,736) 4.02%[▼] / USA (148,521/4,249,779) 3.49%[▼] / Canada (8,881/113,206) 7.84%[▼]

20/07/30 – World (671,005/17,221,761) 3.90%[▼] / USA (153,864/4,569,173) 3.37%[▼] / Canada (8,917/115,470) 7.72%[▼]

20/08/05 – World (705,059/18,735,183) 3.76%[▼] / USA (160,335/4,919,116) 3.26%[▼] / Canada (8,958/117,729) 7.60%[▼]

20/08/10 – World (734,635/20,059,350) 3.66%[▼] / USA (165,619/5,200,313) 3.18%[▼] / Canada (8,981/119,451) 7.52%[▼]

20/08/15 – World (764,237/21,395,915) 3.57%[▼] / USA (171,568/5,478,009) 3.13%[▼] / Canada (9,020/121,652) 7.41%[▼]

20/08/20 – World (791,709/22,613,985) 3.50%[▼] / USA (176,377/5,701,878) 3.09%[▼] / Canada (9,049/123,490) 7.33%[▼]

After this point, the mortality rate reported will be the mortality rate for CLOSED cases rather than for ALL cases as this appears to be a more accurate number.

20/08/23 – World (809,098/23,408,928) 4.83%[▼] / USA (180,191/5,842,153) 5.41%[▼] / Canada (9,071/124,629) 7.56%[▼]

20/08/24 – World (813,045/23,615,347) 4.81%[▼] / USA (180,608/5,874,295) 5.39%[▼] / Canada (9,073/124,896) 7.55%[▼]

20/08/25 – World (817,911/23,845,116) 4.75%[▼] / USA (181,204/5,917,479) 5.33%[▼] / Canada (9,083/125,647) 7.52%[▼]

20/08/26 – World (824,232/24,094,690) 4.72%[▼] / USA (182,449/5,956,595) 5.31%[▼] / Canada (9,090/125,969)7.50%[▼]

20/08/27 – World (830,458/24,371,690) 4.68%[▼] / USA (183,685/6,002,092) 5.25%[▼] / Canada (9,094/126,417) 7.48%[▼]

20/08/28 – World (836,475/24,885,281) 4.66%[▼] / USA (184,927/6,049,440) 5.24%[▼] / Canada (9,102/126,848) 7.47%[▼]

20/08/29 – World (842,177/24,954,023) 4.63%[▼] / USA (185,986/6,097,710) 5.22%[▼] / Canada (9,108/127,358) 7.44%[▼]

20/08/30 – World (847,430/25,202,356) 4.61%[▼] / USA (186,874/6,140,005) 5.20%[▼] / Canada (9,113/127,673) 7.43%[▼]

20/08/31 – World (851,346/25,436,504) 4.58%[▼] / USA (187,232/6,175,600) 5.18%[▼] / Canada (9,117/127,940) 7.43%[—]

20/09/01 – World (855,383/25,665,011) 4.55%[▼] / USA (187,742/6,212,174) 5.15%[▼] / Canada (9,126/128,948) 7.40%[▼]

20/09/02 – World (861,901/25,935,622) 4.52%[▼] / USA (188,907/6,258,028) 5.12%[▼] / Canada (9,132/129,425) 7.38%[▼]

20/09/03 – World (868,161/26,214,446) 4.50%[▼] / USA (190,014/6,291,776) 5.08%[▼] / Canada (9,135/129,923) 7.36%[▼]
​

COVID-19 is now the THIRD largest cause of death in the US.



The next "Grim Mortality Milestone” is the psychologically significant number

– 200,000 –

IF the current trends continue, THEN this number will be reached on or about 14 SEP 20 [—].

*********************************************​

The “prediction” (which has been wrong since 04 APR 20) that the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM number of deaths from COVID-19 would be 10,300 is now 5.42% correct.

The “Rolling 7 day US average deaths per day” TODAY is 904 (YESTERDAY it was 923).

For the US, the 10 day average of the “Rolling 7 day US average deaths per day” has been above 1,000 for more than one month but appears to be dropping steadily.

Despite the “panicky posts” there has NOT been any “HUGE _JUMP_” in deaths from COVID-19 (which is NOT the same thing as saying that there has been no deterioration in the situation – it just hasn’t been a SUDDEN deterioration).

IF the current trends (Linear projection, 7 day average number of deaths) continue, THEN the number of daily deaths from COVID-19 in the US should fall below the average number of daily murders in the US around the END of 2021.

The US mortality rate for CLOSED cases continues to drop.

​

If you consider the locations’ relative ability to pay (PPP GDP per capita is used as an indicator of ability to pay) or healthcare spending per capita this is how they stack up in terms of the chance that a person picked at random will die from COVID-19 in relation to the US.

The best advice anyone can give you is



TAKE IT!​

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

TODAY'S CHARTS​

(based on Worldometer data as of 1338 Z THU 03 SEP 20)











The charts APPEAR to show that the _current_ wave of COVID-19 MIGHT have crested. Whether or not there will be a “third wave” is something for historical epidemiologists to discuss because that is a “prediction” and not a “projection”.

EXPLANATORY NOTES FOR GRADUATES OF “PIOOYA STATISTICS” CLASSES TAUGHT BY INNUMERATE DOLTS
(who probably have a BA [Pla-Doh], a BS [Statistics], and a PhD [Finger Painting] from the University of Numerology)​

1. The "Mortality Index" chart tracks the relationship between mortality and testing. If mortality is flat and testing goes up, the index will go down. If mortality is flat and testing goes down, the index will go up. An increase in the index is a "Bad Thing" and a decrease in the index is a "Good Thing".
   *
2. Trend lines have been color coded:
   
   • LINEAR trend lines are GREEN. Those tend to be the least responsive to the latest developments.
     *
   • The order of the POLYNOMIAL trend line in each chart is chosen for what appears to be the best (what looks, to me, like the most logical) fit to the data available.
     *
   • The “forward projection” for the trend lines is now standardized at 30 days.
     *
   • SECOND ORDER POLYNOMIAL trend lines are RED. For small numbers of data points they tend to be excessively “frisky”.
     *
   • For second order polynomial charts, the ACTUAL trend is likely to be someplace between that indicated by the GREEN trend line and the RED trend line.
     *
   • THIRD ORDER POLYNOMIAL trend lines are YELLOW. Those are used where they give a better data fit and the actual trend is likely to be pretty close to the YELLOW line.
   Thanks to “Jay59” for the upgrading suggestion.
   *
3. The smaller the number of data points, the less reliable the trend lines are.
   *
4. Further suggestions to improve the accuracy of the PROJECTIONS are welcomed. “I don’t like the data or what generally accepted mathematical formulae say about the data – so you are full of crap.” comments will be ignored.
   *
5. Reported deaths normally take dips on weekends (which means the Sunday and Monday numbers are lower than the actual numbers of deaths and the Tuesday and Wednesday numbers are higher),
   *
6. Reported deaths normally take dips around “emotionally significant dates” (sometimes known as “The ‘Christmas’ Effect” or “The ‘Birthday’ Effect”).
   *
7. The trend lines are based on actual current and past data and are footed on the assumption that the conditions current as of the generation of the chart do not change.
   *
8. IF those conditions do change THEN the trend lines WILL change. This, unlike what some dolt will tell you, does NOT mean that the trend lines were wrong when calculated.
   *
9. Simply pulling numbers out of your butt or cherry-picking data, the way that some dolts do, and then using those PIOOYA numbers to claim expertise just doesn’t hack it in the real world (well, outside of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC it doesn’t).

 

[pamak]

So, today the US death rate per million caught up with Sweden's and with that rate (even with the current level of decline) it will soon catch up with Italy...

Coronavirus Update (Live): 26,437,776 Cases and 872,119 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

So, pretty soon, from all advanced nations, only the UK, Spain and Belgium will have higher than the US rates of deaths per million , and it is quite likely that in a month or so the US may even catch up with UK and Spain. Belgium is still way ahead but we know that this country chose to include every suspect coronavirus death in its numbers, so it will be every misleading to compare its figures to the US where only half of the states choose to have a low threshold to include coronavirus deaths in their reported statistics

Apparently, Trump is succeeding in his attempt to put the US first and above every other developed country

 

[Conservative]

So, today the US death rate per million caught up with Sweden's and with that rate (even with the current level of decline) it will soon catch up with Italy...

Coronavirus Update (Live): 26,437,776 Cases and 872,119 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer

So, pretty soon, from all advanced nations, only the UK, Spain and Belgium will have higher than the US rates of deaths per million , and it is quite likely that in a month or so the US may even catch up with UK and Spain. Belgium is still way ahead but we know that this country chose to include every suspect coronavirus death in its numbers, so it will be every misleading to compare its figures to the US where only half of the states choose to have a low threshold to include coronavirus deaths in their reported statistics

Apparently, Trump is succeeding in his attempt to put the US first and above every other developed country

You keep promoting the death rate ignoring the population differences and percentages to infection

8/31/2020 Cases Deaths

France 281025 30635 10.9%

England 335873 41501 12.4%

Canada 128948 9126 7.1%

Sweden 84521 5821 6.9%

Germany 244792 9371 3.8%

Denmark 17200 624 3.6%

United States 6,118,204 186348 3.0%

 

[pamak]

You keep promoting the death rate ignoring the population differences and percentages to infection

8/31/2020 Cases Deaths

France 281025 30635 10.9%

England 335873 41501 12.4%

Canada 128948 9126 7.1%

Sweden 84521 5821 6.9%

Germany 244792 9371 3.8%

Denmark 17200 624 3.6%

United States 6,118,204 186348 3.0%

Repeating older posts you addressed to me in different threads which I have already countered and made you run away from my counterpoints i do not refute my counterpoints...

Again, from the relevant thread where we had the same conversation

https://www.debatepolitics.com/2020...ly-fit-enough-2nd-term-21.html#post1072562737

I am still expecting a response to the poinst I have already metnioned

Originally Posted by pamak

By the way, case deaths ratios between countries like the US which has one of the youngest populations aming the developed countries do not show anything regarding the comparison of the US response to that of the other develped countries. Obviously, a population with a much larger percenteage of population under 65 year old will show much better case to death rates since the vast majority of deaths is within those over 65 year old. There is also the issue of how much testing per capita exists. More testing means lower rate of deaths per detected cases....So your comparisons of JUST the rate of deaths and cases among different countries without taking in consideration the above factors is just wrong

or

Quote Originally Posted by pamak View Post
Found the link I mentioned in the previous post]

Opinion | We Know Crowding Affects the Spread of the Coronavirus. It May Affect the Death Rate. - The New York Times

By David Rubin and Paul A. Offit
Dr. Rubin is the director of PolicyLab at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, Dr. Offit is the director of the Vaccine Education Center there


Large, densely populated cities are going to need a more cautious plan. This is not just because more crowded areas increase the risk of spread, but also because we’re learning that crowding itself may also affect the death rate. The relationship between the amount of virus to which one is initially exposed and the severity of the illness is found in most infectious diseases. Models assessing outcomes from the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic reveal that the likelihood of death was dependent upon the number of infected individuals with whom that person came into contact. When a family is infected by chickenpox, the second child to contract the virus often becomes more seriously ill, presumably because they have been exposed to more of the virus.

 

[Conservative]

Repeating older posts you addressed to me in different threads which I have already countered and made you run away from my counterpoints i do not refute my counterpoints...

Again, from the relevant thread where we had the same conversation

https://www.debatepolitics.com/2020...ly-fit-enough-2nd-term-21.html#post1072562737

I am still expecting a response to the poinst I have already metnioned





or

You really don't belong in this country needing the nanny state. I value freedom of choice better than you. If I get the virus it will be because of me and I want treatment here

9/2/2020 Cases Deaths

France 300181 30706 10.2%

England 340411 41514 12.2%

Canada 130274 9140 7.0%

Sweden 84729 5832 6.9%

Germany 248116 9395 3.8%

Denmark 17200 624 3.6%

United States 6,220,061 188854 3.0%

 

[pamak]

You really don't belong in this country needing the nanny state. I value freedom of choice better than you. If I get the virus it will be because of me and I want treatment here

9/2/2020 Cases Deaths

France 300181 30706 10.2%

England 340411 41514 12.2%

Canada 130274 9140 7.0%

Sweden 84729 5832 6.9%

Germany 248116 9395 3.8%

Denmark 17200 624 3.6%

United States 6,220,061 188854 3.0%

You really need to read the Declaration of Indepedence because even the Founding Fathers understood that a government is essential for securing the unalianable rights of Life, Libery and the pursuit of Happiness

Declaration of Independence: A Transcription | National Archives

...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men...

The pandemic is the classic example where a government can be used to save lives...

 

[Conservative]

You really need to read the Declaration of Indepedence because even the Founding Fathers understood that a government is essential for securing the unalianable rights of Life, Libery and the pursuit of Happiness

Declaration of Independence: A Transcription | National Archives

...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men...

The pandemic is the classic example where a government can be used to save lives...

Right, especially the PROVIDE for the common defense and PROMOTE domestic welfare. Do you know the difference between provide and promote? Read the 10th Amendment

Saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true. Th blame for deaths rests with the individual, then the mayor, then the governor. You really need a civics class

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

DATA SOURCE - COVID-19 Coronavirus Pandemic

*************************************


​

NOTE 1 –

“Mortality Rate (All)” appears to bear a one to one correlation to “[Mortality Rate (Closed)] x [Clearance Rate]”. That means that it is likely that the _real_ mortality rate is the “Mortality Rate (Closed)” and only the differing lengths of time from diagnosis to death is obscuring that.
​

NOTE 2 –

(See World/China/USA/Canada Note 2 Below)
​

************************************



- - NOTES FOR – World/China/USA/Canada - -​

NOTE 1 –

As of 15 APR 2020 Canada and the United States of America use _the same criteria for reporting_ both “Total Cases” and “Total Deaths”. Prior to 15 APR 2020, the US did NOT include “probable” cases and deaths but only reported “confirmed” cases and deaths. Some other countries also use the same criteria for both “Total Cases” and “Total Deaths” as Canada and (now) the US use, but I don’t know which do and which don’t.​

NOTE 2 –

Chinese figures are not accepted as reliable at this time. However they do not appear to be outside the parameters of countries with equivalent “Asian” population percentages.

US figures are not accepted as reliable at this time. However they do not appear to be outside the parameters of countries with equivalent “Racial” population percentages.
​

NOTE 3 –

More Americans have now died from COVID-19 than died due to Accidents (161,374) - previously the #3 cause of death in the US.

The next "Grim Mortality Milestone” is the psychologically significant number 200,000. IF the current trends continue, THEN this number will be reached on or about 14 SEP 20 —. Unless something totally disastrous happens, COVID-19 will NOT beat out Cancer (598,038) to become America’s #2 cause of death (this year).

For data on individual US States follow THIS LINK.
​

NOTE 4 –

Absolute numbers [Columns (A), (B), and (C)] have been adjusted to show what they would be if Canada had the same size population as the US. The ratio numbers remain the same.​

***********************************






​

The last table deals with the day to day differentials in performance. Since the table relies on ONLY two data points per area the calculated results are VERY changeable from day to day. Since two data points do not a trend make, forming a conclusion on this type of analysis is rather silly (but some people seem to think it makes sense – so I include it).

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

QUICK SUMMARY OF Comparative COVID-19 (Total Deaths/Total Cases) & Mortality Closed %
- Data source - COVID-19 Coronavirus Pandemic –
US figures are not accepted as reliable at this time.
​

20/07/20 – World (609,603/14,673,689) 4.15%[▼] / USA (143,310/3,899,358) 3.68%[▼] / Canada (8,852/110,338) 8.02%[▼]

20/07/25 – World (643,687/15,993,736) 4.02%[▼] / USA (148,521/4,249,779) 3.49%[▼] / Canada (8,881/113,206) 7.84%[▼]

20/07/30 – World (671,005/17,221,761) 3.90%[▼] / USA (153,864/4,569,173) 3.37%[▼] / Canada (8,917/115,470) 7.72%[▼]

20/08/05 – World (705,059/18,735,183) 3.76%[▼] / USA (160,335/4,919,116) 3.26%[▼] / Canada (8,958/117,729) 7.60%[▼]

20/08/10 – World (734,635/20,059,350) 3.66%[▼] / USA (165,619/5,200,313) 3.18%[▼] / Canada (8,981/119,451) 7.52%[▼]

20/08/15 – World (764,237/21,395,915) 3.57%[▼] / USA (171,568/5,478,009) 3.13%[▼] / Canada (9,020/121,652) 7.41%[▼]

20/08/20 – World (791,709/22,613,985) 3.50%[▼] / USA (176,377/5,701,878) 3.09%[▼] / Canada (9,049/123,490) 7.33%[▼]

After this point, the mortality rate reported will be the mortality rate for CLOSED cases rather than for ALL cases as this appears to be a more accurate number.

20/08/25 – World (817,911/23,845,116) 4.75%[▼] / USA (181,204/5,917,479) 5.33%[▼] / Canada (9,083/125,647) 7.52%[▼]

20/08/28 – World (836,475/24,885,281) 4.66%[▼] / USA (184,927/6,049,440) 5.24%[▼] / Canada (9,102/126,848) 7.47%[▼]

20/08/29 – World (842,177/24,954,023) 4.63%[▼] / USA (185,986/6,097,710) 5.22%[▼] / Canada (9,108/127,358) 7.44%[▼]

20/08/30 – World (847,430/25,202,356) 4.61%[▼] / USA (186,874/6,140,005) 5.20%[▼] / Canada (9,113/127,673) 7.43%[▼]

20/08/31 – World (851,346/25,436,504) 4.58%[▼] / USA (187,232/6,175,600) 5.18%[▼] / Canada (9,117/127,940) 7.43%[—]

20/09/01 – World (855,383/25,665,011) 4.55%[▼] / USA (187,742/6,212,174) 5.15%[▼] / Canada (9,126/128,948) 7.40%[▼]

20/09/02 – World (861,901/25,935,622) 4.52%[▼] / USA (188,907/6,258,028) 5.12%[▼] / Canada (9,132/129,425) 7.38%[▼]

20/09/03 – World (868,161/26,214,446) 4.50%[▼] / USA (190,014/6,291,776) 5.08%[▼] / Canada (9,135/129,923) 7.36%[▼]

20/09/04 – World (874,193/26,520,511) 4.46%[▼] / USA (191,114/6,336,600) 5.07%[▼] / Canada (9,141/130,493) 7.34%[▼]
​

COVID-19 is now the THIRD largest cause of death in the US.



The next "Grim Mortality Milestone” is the psychologically significant number

– 200,000 –

IF the current trends continue, THEN this number will be reached on or about 14 SEP 20 [—].

*********************************************​

The “prediction” (which has been wrong since 04 APR 20) that the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM number of deaths from COVID-19 would be 10,300 is now 5.39% correct.

The “Rolling 7 day US average deaths per day” TODAY is 884 (YESTERDAY it was 904).

*** For the US, the 10 day average of the “Rolling 7 day US average deaths per day” is below 1,000 for the first day in over a month and still appears to be dropping[/b]. ***

Despite the “panicky posts” there has NOT been any “HUGE _JUMP_” in deaths from COVID-19 (which is NOT the same thing as saying that there has been no deterioration in the situation – it just hasn’t been a SUDDEN deterioration).

IF the current trends (Linear projection, 7 day average number of deaths) continue, THEN the number of daily deaths from COVID-19 in the US should fall below the average number of daily murders in the US around the END of 2021.

The US mortality rate for CLOSED cases continues to drop.

​

If you consider the locations’ relative ability to pay (PPP GDP per capita is used as an indicator of ability to pay) or healthcare spending per capita this is how they stack up in terms of the chance that a person picked at random will die from COVID-19 in relation to the US.

The best advice anyone can give you is



TAKE IT!​

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

TODAY'S CHARTS​

(based on Worldometer data as of 1250 Z FRI 04 SEP 20)











The charts APPEAR to show that the _current_ wave of COVID-19 MIGHT have crested. Whether or not there will be a “third wave” is something for historical epidemiologists to discuss because that is a “prediction” and not a “projection”.

EXPLANATORY NOTES FOR GRADUATES OF “PIOOYA STATISTICS” CLASSES TAUGHT BY INNUMERATE DOLTS
(who probably have a BA [Pla-Doh], a BS [Statistics], and a PhD [Finger Painting] from the University of Numerology)​

1. The "Mortality Index" chart tracks the relationship between mortality and testing. If mortality is flat and testing goes up, the index will go down. If mortality is flat and testing goes down, the index will go up. An increase in the index is a "Bad Thing" and a decrease in the index is a "Good Thing".
   *
2. Trend lines have been color coded:
   
   • LINEAR trend lines are GREEN. Those tend to be the least responsive to the latest developments.
     *
   • The order of the POLYNOMIAL trend line in each chart is chosen for what appears to be the best (what looks, to me, like the most logical) fit to the data available.
     *
   • The “forward projection” for the trend lines is now standardized at 30 days.
     *
   • SECOND ORDER POLYNOMIAL trend lines are RED. For small numbers of data points they tend to be excessively “frisky”.
     *
   • For second order polynomial charts, the ACTUAL trend is likely to be someplace between that indicated by the GREEN trend line and the RED trend line.
     *
   • THIRD ORDER POLYNOMIAL trend lines are YELLOW. Those are used where they give a better data fit and the actual trend is likely to be pretty close to the YELLOW line.
   Thanks to “Jay59” for the upgrading suggestion.
   *
3. The smaller the number of data points, the less reliable the trend lines are.
   *
4. Further suggestions to improve the accuracy of the PROJECTIONS are welcomed. “I don’t like the data or what generally accepted mathematical formulae say about the data – so you are full of crap.” comments will be ignored.
   *
5. Reported deaths normally take dips on weekends (which means the Sunday and Monday numbers are lower than the actual numbers of deaths and the Tuesday and Wednesday numbers are higher),
   *
6. Reported deaths normally take dips around “emotionally significant dates” (sometimes known as “The ‘Christmas’ Effect” or “The ‘Birthday’ Effect”).
   *
7. The trend lines are based on actual current and past data and are footed on the assumption that the conditions current as of the generation of the chart do not change.
   *
8. IF those conditions do change THEN the trend lines WILL change. This, unlike what some dolt will tell you, does NOT mean that the trend lines were wrong when calculated.
   *
9. Simply pulling numbers out of your butt or cherry-picking data, the way that some dolts do, and then using those PIOOYA numbers to claim expertise just doesn’t hack it in the real world (well, outside of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington DC it doesn’t).

 

[pamak]

Right, especially the PROVIDE for the common defense and PROMOTE domestic welfare. Do you know the difference between provide and promote? Read the 10th Amendment

Saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true. Th blame for deaths rests with the individual, then the mayor, then the governor. You really need a civics class

No amendment prohibits the government from promoting domestic welfare through welfare and healthcare programs. In fact, it has been perfectly clear that the And nothing changes the fact that the US government was formed based on the concept that government's responsibility is to SECURE our unalienable rights Do you know what "secure" means?

Declaration of Independence..

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among

In short, Trummp's government failed to secure use from a foreign virus according to his words. Or if you wish, your pathetic "war president" failed to defend us from the Chinese coronavirus that China let to decimate the world.

 

[Conservative]

No amendment prohibits the government from promoting domestic welfare through welfare and healthcare programs. In fact, it has been perfectly clear that the And nothing changes the fact that the US government was formed based on the concept that government's responsibility is to SECURE our unalienable rights Do you know what "secure" means?

Declaration of Independence..

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among

In short, Trummp's government failed to secure use from a foreign virus according to his words. Or if you wish, your pathetic "war president" failed to defend us from the Chinese coronavirus that China let to decimate the world.

promoting is a lot different that providing at least in the English language. Promoting means allowing people to keep more of what they earn and giving that to charity. You are so used to that one size gov't control you have no idea what this country is all about. Charity begins at home and is a state and local responsibility just like all social programs. You should understand that living in California which has implemented and poorly managed every social program created. You keep ignoring that

 

[pamak]

promoting is a lot different that providing at least in the English language. Promoting means allowing people to keep more of what they earn and giving that to charity. You are so used to that one size gov't control you have no idea what this country is all about. Charity begins at home and is a state and local responsibility just like all social programs. You should understand that living in California which has implemented and poorly managed every social program created. You keep ignoring that

First, for those who can read...

From your Constitution...

Section 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

Provide applies to general welfare too!

Second:

SECURE THESE RIGHTS (including life) is the word in the Declaration of Independence . This was written by your Founding Fathers and reflects the philosophy upon which the Constitution relies. And you like it or not, securing life can exist in different contexts and not just in war. So, unless you are ready to argue that the government cannot provide things like police forces or the FBI to secure citizens' life or property from state and federal crimes against their life and property, your point is irrelevant. And again, if you want to see this virus as a foreign one and blame China for ambushing us, then you cannot claim that securing us from such foreign threat is not an issue of common defense. Your "war president" failed to protect people from China's actions . He was ambushed and we experience now the casualties of about 80 Peal Harbors and the list keeps growing. And notice that this view of the "Chinese" virus that China let out to devastate the world is NOT my view. It is TRump's and his supporters' view. So, trying to argue now that the pandemic government measures is not an issue of "common defense" does not fly.

 

[Conservative]

First, for those who can read...

From your Constitution...

Section 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

Provide applies to general welfare too!

Second:

SECURE THESE RIGHTS (including life) is the word in the Declaration of Independence . This was written by your Founding Fathers and reflects the philosophy upon which the Constitution relies. And you like it or not, securing life can exist in different contexts and not just in war. So, unless you are ready to argue that the government cannot provide things like police forces or the FBI to secure citizens' life or property from state and federal crimes against their life and property, your point is irrelevant. And again, if you want to see this virus as a foreign one and blame China for ambushing us, then you cannot claim that securing us from such foreign threat is not an issue of common defense. Your "war president" failed to protect people from China's actions . He was ambushed and we experience now the casualties of about 80 Peal Harbors and the list keeps growing. And notice that this view of the "Chinese" virus that China let out to devastate the world is NOT my view. It is TRump's and his supporters' view. So, trying to argue now that the pandemic government measures is not an issue of "common defense" does not fly.

And you ignored the preamble to the Constitution? Why did you leave your country to come to ours if you want ours to be like yours? you should have stayed home

 

[pamak]

And you ignored the preamble to the Constitution? Why did you leave your country to come to ours if you want ours to be like yours? you should have stayed home

THe preamble does not change the fact that Section 8 of the same Constitution talks about having the federal government PROVIDE for the general welfare. So, by the Constitution, the federal government can apply measures that BOTH PROVIDE and PROMOTE for the general welfare.

I chose to come here to teach you how to read your Constitution because, apparently, you never read it past the preamble...

 

[Conservative]

THe preamble does not change the fact that Section 8 of the same Constitution talks about having the federal government PROVIDE for the general welfare. So, by the Constitution, the federal government can apply measures that BOTH PROVIDE and PROMOTE for the general welfare.

I chose to come here to teach you how to read your Constitution because, apparently, you never read it past the preamble...

The Preamble was created by our Founders, Section 8 by a group of bureaucrats elected but the reality still doesn't resonate with you, your state controls all the social activities as it should, the US has 50 of them in case you didn't understand that with 50 different cost of livings and tax structures. You don't like living in this country, why don't you go back to where you came from?

After 73 years living in this country, working in this country and watching people like moving here trying to change this country I believe I have a better understanding of the foundation upon which this was built and the country our Founders created. They built a country on equal opportunity not equal outcome and neighbor helping neighbor and that neighbor isn't a federal bureaucrat

You came here for a better life and now you want to change our country to be like the country you can from, go back and save yourself a lot of effort

You tell me why anyone would support a party that has generated the social and economic results for the masses in California? The party that runs Seattle, Portland, LA, S.F, Minneapolis, Chicago, Kenosha, NYC, not St. Louis all cities with violent rioting and looting. Who hires, trains, and funds the servants in the cities. Sorry, your ideology is a disaster, a fraud, and people like you have zero credibility

 

[pamak]

The Preamble was created by our Founders, Section 8 by a group of bureaucrats elected but the reality still doesn't resonate with you, your state controls all the social activities as it should, the US has 50 of them in case you didn't understand that with 50 different cost of livings and tax structures. You don't like living in this country, why don't you go back to where you came from?

After 73 years living in this country, working in this country and watching people like moving here trying to change this country I believe I have a better understanding of the foundation upon which this was built and the country our Founders created. They built a country on equal opportunity not equal outcome and neighbor helping neighbor and that neighbor isn't a federal bureaucrat

You came here for a better life and now you want to change our country to be like the country you can from, go back and save yourself a lot of effort

You tell me why anyone would support a party that has generated the social and economic results for the masses in California? The party that runs Seattle, Portland, LA, S.F, Minneapolis, Chicago, Kenosha, NYC, not St. Louis all cities with violent rioting and looting. Who hires, trains, and funds the servants in the cities. Sorry, your ideology is a disaster, a fraud, and people like you have zero credibility

I also came to teach you how to debate...

Now, the above post is a perfect example of logo-diarrhea. "Logo" is from the Greek word for "speech". Diarrhea is the well known word which everybody knows what it means and how messy and uncontrollable it is. "Logo-diarrhea" is when one starts talking a lot without focus or purpose in addressing the other side's point which again is that the US Constitution permits the federal government to both provide for and promote the general welfare.

 

[Conservative]

I also came to teach you how to debate...

Now, the above post is a perfect example of logo-diarrhea. "Logo" is from the Greek word for "speech". Diarrhea is the well known word which everybody knows what it means and how messy and uncontrollable it is. "Logo-diarrhea" is when one starts talking a lot without focus or purpose in addressing the other side's point which again is that the US Constitution permits the federal government to both provide for and promote the general welfare.

You better teach yourself first, facts win debates, not your personal opinions. This is a COVID 19 thread not a Constitutional thread, you know as little about personal responsibility and COVID 19 as you do the Constitution

 

[pamak]

You better teach yourself first, facts win debates, not your personal opinions. This is a COVID 19 thread not a Constitutional thread, you know as little about personal responsibility and COVID 19 as you do the Constitution

And I provided the fact from the US Constitution which shows that the federal government also PROVIDES for the general welfare....



From your Constitution...

Section 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

Sorry...but you tried to argue using the preamble of.. wait for it..., CONSTITUTION, so now that I refuted your argument you seem to run away from your attempt to make the coronavirus a constitutional issue...

RUN Forrest, RUN...

 

[Conservative]

And I provided the fact from the US Constitution which shows that the federal government also PROVIDES for the general welfare....



From your Constitution...

Section 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;

Sorry...but you tried to argue using the preamble of.. wait for it..., CONSTITUTION, so now that I refuted your argument you seem to run away from your attempt to make the coronavirus a constitutional issue...

RUN Forrest, RUN...

Providing for the general welfare in a private sector economy means allowing people to keep more of what they earn and that sets record charitable giving. You cannot seem to grasp the reality that your state controls social spending and leads the nation in poverty, homelessness, illegals, wage gap, poorest quality of life, a real liberal success story that you want to voters to ignore

 

[pamak]

Providing for the general welfare in a private sector economy means allowing people to keep more of what they earn and that sets record charitable giving. You cannot seem to grasp the reality that your state controls social spending and leads the nation in poverty, homelessness, illegals, wage gap, poorest quality of life, a real liberal success story that you want to voters to ignore

I though you said that this is a coronavirus thread. Why are you talking about the economy now? We talk about the general welfare of our health here which was ruined by a stupid commander in chief who thought that he could sit on his ass doing nothing and keeps the "Chinese" virus outside of the borders. He did not prepare the country and its people. He encouraged his supporters even at a later state to treat the threat as a "hoax" and blinded the country by having it completely unprepared with respect to testing during the early stages of the pandemic spread in the US when it was crucial to have a system that could detect and isolate infected people commit from abroad, including American citizens. So, we saw poor countries having actually better numbers of tests per million of population than the United States!

This is from March 2020

Coronavirus Testing Criteria and Numbers by Country - Worldometer


Austria 235 tests per million...

Switcherland 214 test per million

TURKEY 11 tests per million

US 1 test per million



The development of tests was the responsibility of the federal government. From the same link

Just 12 of more than 100 public health labs in the U.S. are currently able to test for COVID-19 because of a problem with the test developed by CDC.


With the clown in chief, the US was effectively blind in what was happening in the country and eventually paid the heaviest price even though it had more available time at its disposal to prepare itself since the virus hit first Asia and Italy and Spain in Europe !

 

[Conservative]

I though you said that this is a coronavirus thread. Why are you talking about the economy now? We talk about the general welfare of our health here which was ruined by a stupid commander in chief who thought that he could sit on his ass doing nothing and keeps the "Chinese" virus outside of the borders. He did not prepare the country and its people. He encouraged his supporters even at a later state to treat the threat as a "hoax" and blinded the country by having it completely unprepared with respect to testing during the early stages of the pandemic spread in the US when it was crucial to have a system that could detect and isolate infected people commit from abroad, including American citizens. So, we saw poor countries having actually better numbers of tests per million of population than the United States!

This is from March 2020

Coronavirus Testing Criteria and Numbers by Country - Worldometer


Austria 235 tests per million...

Switcherland 214 test per million

TURKEY 11 tests per million

US 1 test per million



The development of tests was the responsibility of the federal government. From the same link

Just 12 of more than 100 public health labs in the U.S. are currently able to test for COVID-19 because of a problem with the test developed by CDC.


With the clown in chief, the US was effectively blind in what was happening in the country and eventually paid the heaviest price even though it had more available time at its disposal to prepare itself since the virus hit first Asia and Italy and Spain in Europe !

And what has happened, is the following

RECOVERIES ACTIVE TOTAL
9/3/2020 Cases Deaths

United States 6,267,899 189854 3.0% 3370243 2707802 6078045 189,854

United States 6.24 million cases, 6.1 million recoveries all of which you want to ignore

 

[pamak]

And what has happened, is the following

RECOVERIES ACTIVE TOTAL
9/3/2020 Cases Deaths

United States 6,267,899 189854 3.0% 3370243 2707802 6078045 189,854

United States 6.24 million cases, 6.1 million recoveries all of which you want to ignore

Well, I have already answered your point and demonstrated that the current percentages you use do not signify any superiority in the healthcare sector of there US over other countries.

Here is again some of the counterpoints I made...


Again, from the relevant thread where we had the same conversation



I am still expecting a response to the poinst I have already metnioned just yesterday

https://www.debatepolitics.com/covi...cal-summary-covid-19-a-56.html#post1072573376

Yesterday, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by pamak

By the way, case deaths ratios between countries like the US which has one of the youngest populations aming the developed countries do not show anything regarding the comparison of the US response to that of the other develped countries. Obviously, a population with a much larger percenteage of population under 65 year old will show much better case to death rates since the vast majority of deaths is within those over 65 year old. There is also the issue of how much testing per capita exists. More testing means lower rate of deaths per detected cases....So your comparisons of JUST the rate of deaths and cases among different countries without taking in consideration the above factors is just wrong

or the fact that Europe is wayyyyy more densely populated than the US

Quote Originally Posted by pamak View Post
Found the link I mentioned in the previous post]

Opinion | We Know Crowding Affects the Spread of the Coronavirus. It May Affect the Death Rate. - The New York Times

By David Rubin and Paul A. Offit
Dr. Rubin is the director of PolicyLab at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, Dr. Offit is the director of the Vaccine Education Center there


Large, densely populated cities are going to need a more cautious plan. This is not just because more crowded areas increase the risk of spread, but also because we’re learning that crowding itself may also affect the death rate. The relationship between the amount of virus to which one is initially exposed and the severity of the illness is found in most infectious diseases. Models assessing outcomes from the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic reveal that the likelihood of death was dependent upon the number of infected individuals with whom that person came into contact. When a family is infected by chickenpox, the second child to contract the virus often becomes more seriously ill, presumably because they have been exposed to more of the virus.

You ran away without addressing my counterpoints and you repeat again the same refuted points. So, either you do it because you are dishonest or because the deterioration of your mental faculties at your older age prevent you from recalling things that were mentioned just yesterday!