• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Cruelty and conservatives in this country has become the same thing when it comes to illegals

They get that with a standard ICE arrest..


The modern-day Brownshirts, better known as ICE, conveniently sidestep the pesky inconvenience of Miranda rights, operating in a legal gray zone where due process takes a coffee break.

So NO they don't!
 
That's not who Trump is. He's a victim.
Well that is obviously total bullshit. A victim of what? A victim of who? His record of recidivist criminality predates his entry into politics by decades. Fraud, money laundering, fraud, sexual predation (he admitted this himself) fraud, tax evasion, .... did I mention fraud! :ROFLMAO:

C'mon. This is all a matter of public record. And that's not even getting into his felony convictions. His casinos, and his condo properties were found guilty of money laundering nearly 30 years ago!

Colombian cartel narcotics trafficking money was laundered through his Trump Ocean Club Panama years before he even ran for office. Trump has been surrounded by criminals on at least 4 continents. They've buzzed around his head his entire life, like the flies around Pig Pen in the peanuts cartoon strips. And you think this is .... what? A coincidence? Merely guilt by association?? You think they victimized him into his million$ of dollar$ ?? Seriously, when are you going to get real, Mycroft?
:ROFLMAO:

Holy ****! Here's a sampling of Trump's own attorneys!

Sidney Powell pled guilty - six years probation
Jenna Ellis pled guilty - five years probation.
Kenneth Chesebro pled guilty - five years probation.
Rudy Giuliani - currently an indicted co-conspirator in a Trump’s RICO case.
Michael Cohen - We all know his story. He’s an ex-con now.
That's right. Guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty ....

But you think Trump is a victim? Trump? A VICTIM !??!
Is it any wonder nobody here of DP takes you seriously?
 
THere is a difference between insuring that laws are followed and being Cruel to those who have broken the law. Isn't there a rule against cruel and inhuman punishments snd how arrests are supposed to happen. Sending someone to a country that they do not know the customs and cannot speak the language seems to me to be both cruel and inhuman. Ice just arrested an older illegal whose three sons are all Marines. They actually pulled his shoulder out of its socket arresting him. He is 5'6" and under 150 lbs.
What is your plan to separate the "good" immigrants from the bad? Our "leaders" in Washington have not been able to come to an agreement in decades on this issue, so I ask you. Should there be an amnesty for those who are here? Should those already convicted of homicide be included? "More than 13,000 immigrants convicted of homicide — either in the United States or abroad — are living outside of Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention, according to data ICE provided to Congress earlier this week." (September 2024).

The questions above were rhetorical. The issue is so complicated due to the politics on both sides that I don't think a coherent policy is possible today. The dam has broken, and band-aids are not going to fix it.
 
What is your plan to separate the "good" immigrants from the bad? Our "leaders" in Washington have not been able to come to an agreement in decades on this issue, so I ask you. Should there be an amnesty for those who are here? Should those already convicted of homicide be included? "More than 13,000 immigrants convicted of homicide — either in the United States or abroad — are living outside of Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention, according to data ICE provided to Congress earlier this week." (September 2024).

The questions above were rhetorical. The issue is so complicated due to the politics on both sides that I don't think a coherent policy is possible today. The dam has broken, and band-aids are not going to fix it.
Well, I think a pregnant woman living with her USA citizen husband might be a good one. And a gardener with three sons in the Marines might also be classified as a good one. Both of these have been scooped up by men in tactical gear and wearing masks. The gardener had his should dislocated.
 
Beyond just the way they are being dragged out of their homes and workplaces and even courthouses without a shred of human dignity we now have them and the cons on SCOTRUS working to make their lives as cruel as possible. The court is deciding to allow the Trump administration to send illegals to "third countries". One of the places they want to send illegals to is Sudan where the illegals do not know the culture or the language. Might as well just line them up against a wall and shoot them as it would be better than what they will go through if they are sent to Sudan. I have no problem with sending them back to their country of origin if they would not be in danger there. That would be those who came here just for what many call " a better life". I would object sending them to a country where they do not know the language or the customs and dumping them as that is just plain cruelty. Maybe that is what the cons in this country want, the act of cruelty to make themselves feel powerful.

The law requires that they be sent back to the country of which they are a citizen.

However, if that country refuses to take them back, then what?
Well, then there is a sliding scale, the last of which is any country that will take them.
 
The modern-day Brownshirts, better known as ICE, conveniently sidestep the pesky inconvenience of Miranda rights, operating in a legal gray zone where due process takes a coffee break.

So NO they don't!

The people ICE are detaining are not criminal subjects. There is no right, or reason, for Miranda.
 
Beyond just the way they are being dragged out of their homes and workplaces and even courthouses without a shred of human dignity we now have them and the cons on SCOTRUS working to make their lives as cruel as possible.
They could have made plans to either return home or establish an immigrant status.
The court is deciding to allow the Trump administration to send illegals to "third countries". One of the places they want to send illegals to is Sudan where the illegals do not know the culture or the language.
Some of them that are here do not know the culture in the language here. Also I think this is for people who can't be sent to their home country because it presents a security issue. Take for instance the 11 illegals for Iran that Biden let in. We can't go back to Iran.
Might as well just line them up against a wall and shoot them as it would be better than what they will go through if they are sent to Sudan.
I'd be okay with like a Guantanamo Bay situation.
I have no problem with sending them back to their country of origin if they would not be in danger there. That would be those who came here just for what many call " a better life".
If you want a better life do it legally.
I would object sending them to a country where they do not know the language or the customs and dumping them as that is just plain cruelty.
Again I think this is specifically for criminals I cannot be returned to their home countries.
Maybe that is what the cons in this country want, the act of cruelty to make themselves feel powerful.
That Old Chestnut they're doing it to be bigger meanies. No they're doing it because Biden kicked over the floodgates and let them spill in God knows who's here now.

That's an action reaction sort of thing.
 
It is not just immigrants. Part of what made me not only abandon Republicanism but conservatism as an ideology is that it forces you to accept dispassionate cruelty and miserliness as a matter of policy and interpersonal relationship with your fellow citizens. Workers are expected to receive cruelty and disrespect. The poor. The downtrodden. The needy. You are expected to be cruel or at best indifferent to all of them. You are expected to remain armed and vigilant at all times in order to be ready to kill your fellow citizens at a moment's notice.

It is ultimately an anti-social ideology that is pushed by very-rich, very antisocial people who despise all of us, including the conservatives/libertarians that they have brainwashed through decades of rightwing media capture into believing in conservatism/libertarianism.
I, too, went through a similar epiphany regarding conservatism, and its dispassionate disregard of others. But this is not conservatism. It is sadism dressed up as a political stance. The cruelty is the point. And they're willing to inflict it on anyone else.
 
Hmm… is that an objection to equal application of federal immigration law?
Get serious. There is no interest in "equal application of the law". "Legal/illegal", criminal/non-criminal - there is no evidence they care about any of that. Don't delude yourself, but, more importantly, don't lie to us to justify it to yoursself.
 
What is your plan to separate the "good" immigrants from the bad? Our "leaders" in Washington have not been able to come to an agreement in decades on this issue, so I ask you. Should there be an amnesty for those who are here? Should those already convicted of homicide be included? "More than 13,000 immigrants convicted of homicide — either in the United States or abroad — are living outside of Immigration and Customs Enforcement detention, according to data ICE provided to Congress earlier this week." (September 2024).

The questions above were rhetorical. The issue is so complicated due to the politics on both sides that I don't think a coherent policy is possible today. The dam has broken, and band-aids are not going to fix it.

Another case of sending back a "criminal" who has himself served this country.
 
You do realize that everyone in this country, legally or not, are entitled to the same rights under our constitution, just asking?

Those rights differ for civil vs. criminal charges.

The right to speak with a lawyer and to have your attorney represent you in court is a key part of due process. However, in immigration cases, unlike in criminal cases, lawyers are not provided by the government.

 
Well that is obviously total bullshit. A victim of what? A victim of who? His record of recidivist criminality predates his entry into politics by decades. Fraud, money laundering, fraud, sexual predation (he admitted this himself) fraud, tax evasion, .... did I mention fraud! :ROFLMAO:

C'mon. This is all a matter of public record. And that's not even getting into his felony convictions. His casinos, and his condo properties were found guilty of money laundering nearly 30 years ago!

Colombian cartel narcotics trafficking money was laundered through his Trump Ocean Club Panama years before he even ran for office. Trump has been surrounded by criminals on at least 4 continents. They've buzzed around his head his entire life, like the flies around Pig Pen in the peanuts cartoon strips. And you think this is .... what? A coincidence? Merely guilt by association?? You think they victimized him into his million$ of dollar$ ?? Seriously, when are you going to get real, Mycroft?
:ROFLMAO:

Holy ****! Here's a sampling of Trump's own attorneys!

Sidney Powell pled guilty - six years probation
Jenna Ellis pled guilty - five years probation.
Kenneth Chesebro pled guilty - five years probation.
Rudy Giuliani - currently an indicted co-conspirator in a Trump’s RICO case.
Michael Cohen - We all know his story. He’s an ex-con now.
That's right. Guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty ....

But you think Trump is a victim? Trump? A VICTIM !??!
Is it any wonder nobody here of DP takes you seriously?
Nice try. However, the results of the Nov 5 election demonstrate that the reasonable citizens of the US understood that these political dirty tricks and character assassinations are steaming piles of excrement.

But feel free to continue to wallow in the filth. Conservatives need to keep up the changing rightward shift of the electorate for the midterms and beyond, and you will be of great assistance to them in that endeavor.
 
Nice try. However, the results of the Nov 5 election demonstrate that the reasonable citizens of the US understood that these political dirty tricks and character assassinations are steaming piles of excrement.

But feel free to continue to wallow in the filth. Conservatives need to keep up the changing rightward shift of the electorate for the midterms and beyond, and you will be of great assistance to them in that endeavor.
Wow. Two whole sentences, and not a word of cogent rebuttal to the points I made in my post. No surprise, considering Trump's criminality dates back more than 50 years, the record of which is not even subject to debate. But thanks for exposing your knee-jerk defense of the criminal fraud in the White House. We don't have to guess where you stand.
 
Nice try. However, the results of the Nov 5 election demonstrate that the reasonable citizens of the US understood that these political dirty tricks and character assassinations are steaming piles of excrement.

But feel free to continue to wallow in the filth. Conservatives need to keep up the changing rightward shift of the electorate for the midterms and beyond, and you will be of great assistance to them in that endeavor.
Actually right now there are investigations about the 2024 election results. It seems that the real culprits might just be the GOP and their cronies.
 
Funny how the left didn't care about these people when 1,000's were dying as they flooded the border during the previous administration.
 
The people ICE are detaining are not criminal subjects. There is no right, or reason, for Miranda.
Erogo inhuman treatment of them, because the agents are given a free pass to do as they wish, with no laws to bind them.

And of course they are then sent to a foreign prison, for unlimited incarceration (for a limited cirme) under horrible conditions outside of the eyes of the Media. That is insidious beyond measure!

Diving Mullah
 
Wow. Two whole sentences, and not a word of cogent rebuttal to the points I made in my post. No surprise, considering Trump's criminality dates back more than 50 years, the record of which is not even subject to debate. But thanks for exposing your knee-jerk defense of the criminal fraud in the White House. We don't have to guess where you stand.
Were there any cogent points made, I might have addressed them. Since it was just repetitive bleating, I replied appropriately.
 
Erogo inhuman treatment of them, because the agents are given a free pass to do as they wish, with no laws to bind them.

And of course they are then sent to a foreign prison, for unlimited incarceration (for a limited cirme) under horrible conditions outside of the eyes of the Media. That is insidious beyond measure!

Diving Mullah

Of course there are laws to bind.
That's why ICE is picking them up. They don't have lawful authority to be in the USA.
 
You do realize that everyone in this country, legally or not, are entitled to the same rights under our constitution, just asking?

Of course. And American citizens who do not face criminal prosecution are also not required to receive Miranda warnings.
 
Of course there are laws to bind.
That's why ICE is picking them up. They don't have lawful authority to be in the USA.
But does that mean the U.S.—and ICE—should be loading people like livestock into a metal box and shipping them off to some godforsaken dungeon in a country that isn’t even their own, never to be heard from again?


“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”



...unless, of course, you actually take us up on that offer.


In that case, we’ll arrest you, lock you in a cell packed with a hundred others like sardines in a can of suffering, then deport you to a place where you'll vanish in agony—left to regret ever daring to seek hope here.


Because we are Americans.
And this is how we treat immigrants now.


Frack yeah!

Diving Mullah
 
Of course there are laws to bind.
That's why ICE is picking them up. They don't have lawful authority to be in the USA.
What about the Americans they are harassing in the streets because they are of the wrong skin color. Please do not say they are not doing that as there are plenty of people out there who are being targeted. And many of the people they are picking up have requested asylum and they are picking them up right outside the court while they are still waiting for their final asylum hearings. They have done everything by our laws and still they get picked up and shipped out, and now to countries they did not even come from like Sudan.
 
Back
Top Bottom