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After the mass protests demanding the ousting of Egyptian President Morsi on Sunday, the General Al-Sisi of the Army issues ultimatum to Morsi to share power or be removed forcibly. President Morsi has responded by declaring he would rather die than step down. Al-Sisi responded in kind and announced he and his forces are too ready to fight to the death.
Meanwhile, the protests, which are already larger than those that pushed out Mubarak two years ago during the Arab Spring, are getting more violent and the death toll is climbing.
The Army's deadline for Morsi to relinquish power is 4:30pm Wednesday. That's 9:30am Eastern time.
Mursi, Egypt army pledge lives in 'final hours' showdown | Reuters
Already a thread on this but your post is more current so I’ll comment.
I think the military will remove President Morsi, install a temporary government and take a more active role in protecting the legitimacy of the process than they did last time around. I don’t expect immediate action from the military but I do expect them to gradually get more involved in things and assert their power more forcibly in the coming days or weeks.
Morsi blew it when he usurped powers that he had no authority to usurp but the Egyptian people gave him a chance to make some meaningful changes. Things have gotten worse for them in almost every way possible and it has become evident that Morsi is only interested in retaining power and forcing his Islamist rule upon a fairly secular society.
I think the military will remove President Morsi, install a temporary government and take a more active role in protecting the legitimacy of the process than they did last time around. I don’t expect immediate action from the military but I do expect them to gradually get more involved in things and assert their power more forcibly in the coming days or weeks.
Morsi blew it when he usurped powers that he had no authority to usurp but the Egyptian people gave him a chance to make some meaningful changes. Things have gotten worse for them in almost every way possible and it has become evident that Morsi is only interested in retaining power and forcing his Islamist rule upon a fairly secular society.
I agree with you, in part, if you consider a part of “the goods” to be a legitimate constitutional referendum. My position is that the people of Egypt have a natural right to overthrow Morsi, even though he was democratically elected. I’d be interested in your views on this issue.Meh. Morsi isn't in trouble for being an Islamist. He's in trouble because he was unable to deliver the goods. Egypt's economy has drizzled downwards since the elections.
I never said the military wants to rule. I think the military wants a legitimate government. Morsi broke his social contract with the people and became illegitimate almost as soon as he was elected. Democratic elections don’t define legitimacy do they?I don't know. The Stratfor guys think that the military doesn't want to rule - it just wants to be left alone with its' power and privileges. That strikes me as pretty plausible.
Yes, it's a fairly secular society considering its location and demographics. I’m interested in why you might disagree with this. Just because the radical groups were more organized in getting votes out doesn’t mean most Egyptians are radical Islamists. In the end however, it's all about legitimacy and Morsi has none right now.the party that got the most votes next to the Muslim Brotherhood was the al Nour party - the Salafists who are even more Islamist than the MB. "A Fairly Secular Society"?
I agree with you, in part, if you consider a part of “the goods” to be a legitimate constitutional referendum. My position is that the people of Egypt have a natural right to overthrow Morsi, even though he was democratically elected. I’d be interested in your views on this issue.
I never said the military wants to rule. I think the military wants a legitimate government. Morsi broke his social contract with the people and became illegitimate almost as soon as he was elected.
Democratic elections don’t define legitimacy do they?
Yes, it's a fairly secular society considering its location and demographics.
I’m interested in why you might disagree with this. Just because the radical groups were more organized in getting votes out doesn’t mean most Egyptians are radical Islamists. In the end however, it's all about legitimacy and Morsi has none right now.
After the mass protests demanding the ousting of Egyptian President Morsi on Sunday, the General Al-Sisi of the Army issues ultimatum to Morsi to share power or be removed forcibly. President Morsi has responded by declaring he would rather die than step down. Al-Sisi responded in kind and announced he and his forces are too ready to fight to the death.
Meanwhile, the protests, which are already larger than those that pushed out Mubarak two years ago during the Arab Spring, are getting more violent and the death toll is climbing.
The Army's deadline for Morsi to relinquish power is 4:30pm Wednesday. That's 9:30am Eastern time.
Mursi, Egypt army pledge lives in 'final hours' showdown | Reuters
Like him or not, Morsi won in a legitimate election, and was the legitimate constitutional choice of the Egyptian people. Mobs in the street do not have a natural right to overthrown the legally expressed will of the Egyptian populace.
Look, I don't like Morsi, I was one of the first to say that the MB would take over and it would go badly. But what we have just established is a new standard - if you can get enough people in the streets and destroy the right amount of property, you can overturn an election and overthrow the government you don't like. We just gave everyone who can bring a mob to bear in Cairo a veto over governance.
There is a thing called "buyers remorse" in this case they now find they voted in the wrong guy. Presidents, leaders, dictators etc are ousted, impeached all the time. I don't care if Morsi is the legitimate constitutional choice, that does not mean he can drive the country into the black hole of destruction.
This is exactly what the people have witnessed and are experiencing, thus they "the people" have every right to kick his ass out.
"Freedom is messy." ~ Donald Rumsfeld.
And getting messier.
Like him or not, Morsi won in a legitimate election, and was the legitimate constitutional choice of the Egyptian people. Mobs in the street do not have a natural right to overthrown the legally expressed will of the Egyptian populace.
Look, I don't like Morsi, I was one of the first to say that the MB would take over and it would go badly. But what we have just established is a new standard - if you can get enough people in the streets and destroy the right amount of property, you can overturn an election and overthrow the government you don't like. We just gave everyone who can bring a mob to bear in Cairo a veto over governance.
what Morsi lacks now is the level of popularity he previously enjoyed. That is not the same as "legitimacy". Millions marched against President Obama, too. That doesn't make him not the rightful president of the U.S.
The majority of people no longer accept his authority, he is not legitimate, he's not just unpopular, if people no longer accept him as a leader and he refuses to comply with their demands he's pretty much a dictator.wiki said:In political science, legitimacy is the popular acceptance of an authority, usually a governing law or a régime.
Yup. I would like to give myself a big pat on the back for roughly predicting this two years ago. However, I would like to admit (full disclosure) that this happened much quicker than I had predicted, which may negate some of its' broader assessed effects.
So do you have any amended predictions?
The majority of people no longer accept his authority, he is not legitimate, he's not just unpopular, if people no longer accept him as a leader and he refuses to comply with their demands he's pretty much a dictator.
No he is just an unpopular legitimate leader, you are no Obama supporter yet you recognize him as your leader, no? so does the majority of Americans I presume.We know that he is unpopular. We know that millions have marched against him. The same could easily be said of our own president. Is he illegitimate?
well... I do. But not for here. I would just redirect you to the Stratfor guys, who I think generally are on top of things.
I was of the understanding Obama was supposed to have the world love us again. Not so much in Egypt
Doug Ross @ Journal: 15 Photos From the Tahrir Square Protests You'll Never See In Legacy Media. #Egypt #Morsi #Obama
Um. Your location says "sunny and nice", but, exactly what country are you in, again? Of course Morsi and the MB can prove inadequate to the task of turning around Egypt's state-driven rentier economy. It is probably beyond the abilities of any actor to do so. Ironically, the MB was probably actually their best bet (and a crappy bet it was, too).
They sure do. If that is allowed for in their Constitution.
But most Constitutions are pretty silent on the right to depose a President through the ritual of breaking things and burning buildings.
We know that he is unpopular. We know that millions have marched against him. The same could easily be said of our own president. Is he illegitimate? No.
In a representative government, legitimacy is conferred by elections. Not mobs in the street. Not military coups. Free and Fair elections, one of which propelled Morsi into power. You don't have to like the result to recognize the superiority of the model to available alternatives.
I was of the understanding Obama was supposed to have the world love us again. Not so much in Egypt
Doug Ross @ Journal: 15 Photos From the Tahrir Square Protests You'll Never See In Legacy Media. #Egypt #Morsi #Obama
I would like to think that with my election and the early decisions that we've made, that you're starting to see some restoration of America's standing in the world.
Barack Obama
My job to the Muslim world is to communicate that the Americans are not your enemy. We sometimes make mistakes. We have not been perfect. But if you look at the track record, as you say, America was not born as a colonial power, and that the same respect and partnership that America had with the Muslim world as recently as 20 or 30 years ago, there's no reason why we can't restore that.
Barack Obama
Guess what the people of Egypt suspended the constitution in favor of having a dictator destroy their country. That my friend is freedom.
We have impeached our own presidents, kicked their ass out.
Good for the people of Egypt and down with Mosi with his head on a stick.
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