Covid: USA VS EUROPE

[Dorftirol]

Today + 95000 infections in USA, Total of population 329.000.000

+ 136000 infections in France + Spain + UK + Italy + Germany, Total of population 320.000.000

So the covid situation is better in USA than Europe.

It is false to say bad in USA the gestion of Covid.

 

[bluesmoke]

Today + 95000 infections in USA, Total of population 329.000.000

+ 136000 infections in France + Spain + UK + Italy + Germany, Total of population 320.000.000

So the covid situation is better in USA than Europe.

It is false to say bad in USA the gestion of Covid.

No. Those are not all the countries in "Europe". The total pop of Europe is about 748M with total new cases 10/29/20 of 279,498. Not that one day is any barometer of anything during a pandemic that is no where near over. Nor as if your comparison makes the US "look good". Nonsense. Wear your mask and stay away, please.

 

[ElChupacabra]

No. Those are not all the countries in "Europe". The total pop of Europe is about 748M with total new cases 10/29/20 of 279,498. Not that one day is any barometer of anything during a pandemic that is no where near over. Nor as if your comparison makes the US "look good". Nonsense. Wear your mask and stay away, please.

The full context in this comparison is missing one obvious thing: Europe was able to contain the spread well after the initial surge back in February/March. The takeaway from the current surge is what getting lax on prevention measures can lead to. What will be unfortunate is having to return to some form of lockdown for each of the countries the OP listed.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Today + 95000 infections in USA, Total of population 329.000.000

+ 136000 infections in France + Spain + UK + Italy + Germany, Total of population 320.000.000

So the covid situation is better in USA than Europe.

It is false to say bad in USA the gestion of Covid.

Using "spot" numbers to define a line is mathematically foolish. (i.e. "How long is the line from A?".)

Please give the numbers for ALL of Europe in order that I don't compare your partial statistics (using 5 of 48 countries) with my own (created just for you) partial statistics using 5 (the four highest ones and one that is in the middle of the pack) of 50 US states.

BTW, the European increase worked out to 318.83 (NOT 425) per million and the US increase worked out to 127.56 (NOT 288.75) per million ON A ONE DAY BASIS.

 

[Peter King]

Today + 95000 infections in USA, Total of population 329.000.000

+ 136000 infections in France + Spain + UK + Italy + Germany, Total of population 320.000.000

So the covid situation is better in USA than Europe.

It is false to say bad in USA the gestion of Covid.

That is nonsense, the death and illness rates in all the countries you mentioned are way lower because Europe might be going through a second wave, in the US the US is still in it's first wave and that first wave has already had 3 peaks.

Only in the first few days the US had a number below 10,000 and after it reached 10,000 it never reached less than 19,000 cases per day.

Spain had a whole few weeks were it was 500 new cases or lower a day.

France had weeks and weeks of on average less than 500 new cases a day.

Italy had about 2.5 months of 300 or less new cases a day.

The UK had more than 2 months were it was lower than 1,000 a day.

Germany has had weeks upon weeks of lower than 500 new cases a day.

That is why the cases per 1 million citizens in the US is 28,091 cases. France has 20,821 cases per 1 million people, Germany's number is 6,173 per 1 million citizens, the UK has 14,554 cases per 1 million citizens, Spain has 27,042 cases per 1 million citizens and Italy has 10,717 cases per 1 million people. All of them are lower than the US and in all of those countries the governments are willing and able to take strict measures to try and curb the infections.

If Trump remains in power he will never take the hard measures needed to end the first wave.

 

[Moderate Right]

Today + 95000 infections in USA, Total of population 329.000.000

+ 136000 infections in France + Spain + UK + Italy + Germany, Total of population 320.000.000

So the covid situation is better in USA than Europe.

It is false to say bad in USA the gestion of Covid.

Exactly. Europe did much better vs the virus months ago when they were all locked down. As soon as they opened back up cases soared again. Trump was smart enough early on to understand that killing the patient (the US economy) was not the cure for Covid. Well, yes, it could be the cure but sending the entire world into a prolonged depression that would make the 1930's look like an economic boom, is just not an acceptable solution to the virus. Europe proved that to us. Even with their longer term lockdowns, they realized that they had to open back up and now they're doing worse than the US per capita.

 

[snakestretcher]

The full context in this comparison is missing one obvious thing: Europe was able to contain the spread well after the initial surge back in February/March. The takeaway from the current surge is what getting lax on prevention measures can lead to. What will be unfortunate is having to return to some form of lockdown for each of the countries the OP listed.

Yes. It was 100% guaranteed that the moment restrictions were lifted many would assume it was back to normal, problem solved. It's no coincidence that infections thus rose dramatically any place where premature easing happened. Britain will be going into general lockdown, again, from next week-so hints from Downing Street suggest anyway. And we were doing so well going into the Summer...

 

[Mongidig]

Lockdowns are coming back to the US. Watch the hospitalizations. Watch the ER visits. At some point leaders will have no choice but to lock down. Remember early on when Trump said we can’t lock down? A few weeks later even he knew we had to lock down.

Lockdowns don’t have to happen of course if everybody wears a mask and follows safety precautions. If there are lockdowns you can blame Trump and his supporters. I think you will start seeing people go after “hoaxers” and “anti-maskers”. They will certainly pay dearly for what they have done.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

That is nonsense, the death and illness rates in all the countries you mentioned are way lower because Europe might be going through a second wave, in the US the US is still in it's first wave and that first wave has already had 3 peaks.

Only in the first few days the US had a number below 10,000 and after it reached 10,000 it never reached less than 19,000 cases per day.

Spain had a whole few weeks were it was 500 new cases or lower a day.

France had weeks and weeks of on average less than 500 new cases a day.

Italy had about 2.5 months of 300 or less new cases a day.

The UK had more than 2 months were it was lower than 1,000 a day.

Germany has had weeks upon weeks of lower than 500 new cases a day.

That is why the cases per 1 million citizens in the US is 28,091 cases. France has 20,821 cases per 1 million people, Germany's number is 6,173 per 1 million citizens, the UK has 14,554 cases per 1 million citizens, Spain has 27,042 cases per 1 million citizens and Italy has 10,717 cases per 1 million people. All of them are lower than the US and in all of those countries the governments are willing and able to take strict measures to try and curb the infections.

If Trump remains in power he will never take the hard measures needed to end the first wave.

The US is back over 800 deaths per day (has been for three days now) and I agree with you that Mr. Trump will NOT "offend" those of his supporters who appear to believe that they have a constitutional right to get tattooed or attend World Championship All Star Dancing with Apprentice Survivors of the Great American Monster Truck and Tractor Demolition Derby BBQ and Beer Celebration parties.

​

However there IS a drop in the clearance rate that appears to cover most of the European countries. Mind you, if there is an upsurge of cases, then it does take some time for the recoveries to start.

There IS also an upsurge in the US cases.

​

and it appears that that upsurge is being driven by the "Red States".

​

I've corrected the typo in the charts posted at Daily Statistical Summary of COVID-19.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Exactly. Europe did much better vs the virus months ago when they were all locked down. As soon as they opened back up cases soared again. Trump was smart enough early on to understand that killing the patient (the US economy) was not the cure for Covid. Well, yes, it could be the cure but sending the entire world into a prolonged depression that would make the 1930's look like an economic boom, is just not an acceptable solution to the virus. Europe proved that to us. Even with their longer term lockdowns, they realized that they had to open back up and now they're doing worse than the US per capita.

That isn't quite what the data shows (once you allow for the two to three week lag in the US numbers).

​

 

[bluesmoke]

The full context in this comparison is missing one obvious thing: Europe was able to contain the spread well after the initial surge back in February/March. The takeaway from the current surge is what getting lax on prevention measures can lead to. What will be unfortunate is having to return to some form of lockdown for each of the countries the OP listed.

The science/medical/health recommended response is/was an entirely simple approach of minimal measure. Wear a mask, socially distance and wash. Then, given further guidelines to do with workplace/school peculiars, there can be reopening. As long as the guidelines are followed, we can best get through this horrible pandemic. Instead, Trump thumbed His nose at all guideline and the Red State govs followed as did the Trump cult. Reopening was too early at a time when deaths and new cases were still too high and guidelines weren't followed, anyway. Now, a second reopening is being done the same haphazard way though we've the proof of the past experience of mismanaged reopening to know better. We are no where near over this pandemic and things can only get worse.

 

[Peter King]

The US is back over 800 deaths per day (has been for three days now) and I agree with you that Mr. Trump will NOT "offend" those of his supporters who appear to believe that they have a constitutional right to get tattooed or attend World Championship All Star Dancing with Apprentice Survivors of the Great American Monster Truck and Tractor Demolition Derby BBQ and Beer Celebration parties.

View attachment 67302445​

However there IS a drop in the clearance rate that appears to cover most of the European countries. Mind you, if there is an upsurge of cases, then it does take some time for the recoveries to start.

There IS also an upsurge in the US cases.

View attachment 67302449​

and it appears that that upsurge is being driven by the "Red States".

View attachment 67302451​

I've corrected the typo in the charts posted at Daily Statistical Summary of COVID-19.

We happen to be lucky to be very pro-active as we are a small but densely populated country. Our infection rate and death rate are dropping even if the neighbors to our south are doing terribly. But luckily the border with Belgium is not a hub of activity.

 

[Alfons]

Today + 95000 infections in USA, Total of population 329.000.000

+ 136000 infections in France + Spain + UK + Italy + Germany, Total of population 320.000.000

So the covid situation is better in USA than Europe.

It is false to say bad in USA the gestion of Covid.

Not 'infections', but positive PCR 'tests', according to NYT most of whom are wrong ( 95% )

 

[bluesmoke]

We happen to be lucky to be very pro-active as we are a small but densely populated country. Our infection rate and death rate are dropping even if the neighbors to our south are doing terribly. But luckily the border with Belgium is not a hub of activity.

What's lucky about Netherlands 20,986 cases and 434 deaths per 1M pop vs world avg 6,005 and 155? Or Euro avg 9,644 and 184?

 

[Peter King]

What's lucky about Netherlands 20,986 cases and 434 deaths per 1M pop vs world avg 6,005 and 155? Or Euro avg 9,644 and 184?

As one of the most densely populated countries over 10 million, we are doing fairly well. And it is stupid to compare it to countries that are not comparable in size, location and other local issues that spread covid through the Netherlands.

 

[Noodlegawd]

That isn't quite what the data shows (once you allow for the two to three week lag in the US numbers).

View attachment 67302444​

Where do you get that there's necessarily a 2-3 week lag in US numbers?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

What's lucky about Netherlands 20,986 cases and 434 deaths per 1M pop vs world avg 6,005 and 155? Or Euro avg 9,644 and 184?

The Netherlands doesn't make the "Top 15"

(and, thanks to Kuwait and San Marino, the US doesn't make it on this list either)

​

As far as the European averages are concerned, it actually helps if you use accurate numbers because they are -9,644- 14,128.34 and -184- 361.84,

And it most certainly does look like the situation in the Netherlands is paralleling the situation in the rest of Europe (not being abysmally worse the way you seemed to want to imply.

​

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Where do you get that there's necessarily a 2-3 week lag in US numbers?

By paying attention.

I didn't say that there's NECESSARILY a 2 to 3 week lag, only that that's the way that things have been happening so far. The lag would be more, or the lag could be less or the US could witness a grant of divine benevolence due to the re-election of Mr. Trump inducing God to completely eliminate all cases of COVID-19 in the US overnight and permanently immunizing all Americans from catching it ever again.

 

[Torus34]

Today + 95000 infections in USA, Total of population 329.000.000

+ 136000 infections in France + Spain + UK + Italy + Germany, Total of population 320.000.000

So the covid situation is better in USA than Europe.

It is false to say bad in USA the gestion [sic] of Covid.

Readers! Caution! Cherry-picking alert!

France + Spain + UK + Italy + Germany are no more Europe than New York, Texas, California and Illinois are 'the United States'.

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the Big 3: masks, hand washing and physical distancing.

 

[Noodlegawd]

By paying attention.

I didn't say that there's NECESSARILY a 2 to 3 week lag, only that that's the way that things have been happening so far. The lag would be more, or the lag could be less or the US could witness a grant of divine benevolence due to the re-election of Mr. Trump inducing God to completely eliminate all cases of COVID-19 in the US overnight and permanently immunizing all Americans from catching it ever again.

Nice non-answer. "Paying attention" to what? If your only data point is what happened at the beginning of the pandemic, that hardly serves as a basis for what to expect during the current surge when the "initial" conditions are totally different.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Nice non-answer. "Paying attention" to what? If your only data point is what happened at the beginning of the pandemic, that hardly serves as a basis for what to expect during the current surge when the "initial" conditions are totally different.

I have been posting daily updates on the COVID-19 situation at Daily Statistical Summary of COVID-19 since early May of this year. Please feel free to peruse them for yourself.

 

[Noodlegawd]

I have been posting daily updates on the COVID-19 situation at Daily Statistical Summary of COVID-19 since early May of this year. Please feel free to peruse them for yourself.

Another non-answer. Congratulations.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Another non-answer. Congratulations.

I hope that you won't be terribly offended if I translate that post into "I've been told what to believe and I'm not going to confuse myself with actual facts.".

 

[Noodlegawd]

I hope that you won't be terribly offended if I translate that post into "I've been told what to believe and I'm not going to confuse myself with actual facts.".

You haven't referred to any relevant facts. You've made a specific claim and not backed it up with anything, other than generally referring me to "the data."

 

[bluesmoke]

The Netherlands doesn't make the "Top 15"

View attachment 67302861
(and, thanks to Kuwait and San Marino, the US doesn't make it on this list either)

View attachment 67302857​

As far as the European averages are concerned, it actually helps if you use accurate numbers because they are -9,644- 14,128.34 and -184- 361.84,

And it most certainly does look like the situation in the Netherlands is paralleling the situation in the rest of Europe (not being abysmally worse the way you seemed to want to imply.

View attachment 67302863​

By paying attention.

I didn't say that there's NECESSARILY a 2 to 3 week lag, only that that's the way that things have been happening so far. The lag would be more, or the lag could be less or the US could witness a grant of divine benevolence due to the re-election of Mr. Trump inducing God to completely eliminate all cases of COVID-19 in the US overnight and permanently immunizing all Americans from catching it ever again.

Thanks for the correction.

I don’t have the temp spreadsheets I got my math from, so I don’t know where my numbers went wrong. Below is Europe as of 11/4/20:

		Total	Total	Tot Cases/	Deaths/	Population
	Country	Cases	Deaths	1M pop	1M pop
​	Europe	10,997,959​	279,209​	14,707​	373​	747,788,047​
​	Netherlands	383,523​	7,682​	22,365​	448​	17,148,052​

Source: worldometer

And the world:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I don't know that Netherlands 20% higher death rate and 52% higher case rate than all of Europe is "abysmally worse", but the point remains the same. There is nothing lucky about Netherlands being so much worse compared to the Euro and world avg. Being better than the US is no feather in one’s cap, either.