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COVID 19 - A pandemic of the unvaccinated? Maybe not

trixare4kids said:
I'm not surprised by any of this. I am seeing more stories everyday of the fully vaccinated dying from Covid.
The CDC isn't telling us the entire story.
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Your wingnut sources aren’t telling you the full story.

I’ve spoken to dozens of physicians over the last few months. Every single one has said their ICUs have COVID patients and almost all are unvaccinated. That’s in both COVID controlled areas, like Chicago, and with rampant spread, like Southern Indiana.

Always the same story. Always.
 
fireflygmf said:
What is the context of effective? Against death, hospitalization or infection? I don't know how these things are measured as a standard.

EDIT: I found it - it's against hospitalization for the COVID vaccines.

So I guess my question becomes, what is the context for the polio vaccines? Is that against hospitalization, symptom development or infection? I'd like to know if we are comparing apples to apples. From the CDC (but no further context):

Two doses of inactivated polio vaccine (IPV) are 90% effective or more against polio; three doses are 99% to 100% effective.​

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It’s against infection. But know that polio is much harder to diagnose.
 
Threegoofs said:
It’s against infection. But know that polio is much harder to diagnose.
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Okay, thanks. It would seem to me that something that's over 90% effective against infection has a much greater effect than something 90% effective against hospitalization. I saw it stated at the CDC web page that the vaccines are around 66% effective against infection (against Delta).

I hope health authorities support the booster dose plan. Early data indicates 90% protection against infection (against Delta). This would go a long way to getting us out of the pandemic.

I know there is a lot of push back against doing so, considering that some countries still don't even have everyone single dosed that wants one, but I don't see how we stop transmission unless we all get boosted or infected (after two doses, which will kind of act like a booster). Just want this to be over. More vaccine, the better.
 
roguenuke said:
And yet many will still get vaccinated, despite that resentment.
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Yeah, and they'll remember who forced them.
roguenuke said:
But this is just an excuse because they already weren't getting vaccinated. It had been months since people couldn't easily find an appointment to get vaccinated, yet they were still stalling. The mandates give them an excuse to get mad at others for something that will save them and help end this pandemiAnd yet those that wear
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Well, that's the party line - how accurate it is is still to be determined.
 
fireflygmf said:
Okay, thanks. It would seem to me that something that's over 90% effective against infection has a much greater effect than something 90% effective against hospitalization. I saw it stated at the CDC web page that the vaccines are around 66% effective against infection (against Delta).

I hope health authorities support the booster dose plan. Early data indicates 90% protection against infection (against Delta). This would go a long way to getting us out of the pandemic.

I know there is a lot of push back against doing so, considering that some countries still don't even have everyone single dosed that wants one, but I don't see how we stop transmission unless we all get boosted or infected (after two doses, which will kind of act like a booster). Just want this to be over. More vaccine, the better.
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You need to come to terms with the fact that transmission of the virus will never be stopped. Ever. Firing people from their jobs will not stop it. Triple masking five year olds for eight hours in schools will not stop it.
 
Bullseye said:
Yeah, and they'll remember who forced them.

Well, that's the party line - how accurate it is is still to be determined.
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Which will make what sort of difference? How many of those who are hesitant to do you believe weren't already against "who forced them"?

Since that is me talking for me, I have no idea what any Party is saying, and I highly doubt that is in fact "the party line" (whatever party that is).
 
Rawley said:
You need to come to terms with the fact that transmission of the virus will never be stopped. Ever. Firing people from their jobs will not stop it. Triple masking five year olds for eight hours in schools will not stop it.
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That's my point. Transmission is inevitable with the current two dose vaccine efficacy. We will either all need to catch it or be boosted. I'd prefer to be boosted.
 
fireflygmf said:
That's my point. Transmission is inevitable with the current two dose vaccine efficacy. We will either all need to catch it or be boosted. I'd prefer to be boosted.
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My point being that you can get a booster shot every month if you like, but it's not going stop the transmission of this virus. This virus, like the flu, will be here long after you and I are dead and buried.
 
fireflygmf said:
Okay, thanks. It would seem to me that something that's over 90% effective against infection has a much greater effect than something 90% effective against hospitalization. I saw it stated at the CDC web page that the vaccines are around 66% effective against infection (against Delta).

I hope health authorities support the booster dose plan. Early data indicates 90% protection against infection (against Delta). This would go a long way to getting us out of the pandemic.

I know there is a lot of push back against doing so, considering that some countries still don't even have everyone single dosed that wants one, but I don't see how we stop transmission unless we all get boosted or infected (after two doses, which will kind of act like a booster). Just want this to be over. More vaccine, the better.
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Transmission will never stop. The virus will become endemic.

But it’s no big deal if you’re vaccinated.
 
Rawley said:
You need to come to terms with the fact that transmission of the virus will never be stopped. Ever. Firing people from their jobs will not stop it. Triple masking five year olds for eight hours in schools will not stop it.
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Firing people won’t stop it, but mandating vaccines and having those people vaccinated will. Masking kids will minimize spread, but vaccinating them will essentially stop major outbreaks.
 
roguenuke said:
Which will make what sort of difference? How many of those who are hesitant to do you believe weren't already against "who forced them"?
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Hard to say, although I know the current mythology points to Republicans.
roguenuke said:
Since that is me talking for me, I have no idea what any Party is saying, and I highly doubt that is in fact "the party line" (whatever party that is).
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You know which party Biden leads, right? So make a guess which "party line" I'm referring to.
 
trixare4kids said:
I haven't seen anyone prove that so. His statistics come right from the CDC and contradict media babble as reported by Fauci.
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I literally posted the study from MMWR and showed it says nothing to contradict the fact that hospital admissions snd deaths are disproportionately in the unvaccinated.

His ‘stats’ come from here, and it’s pretty clear his interpretation is not just a lie, it’s a big fat lie.

www.cdc.gov

Comparative Effectiveness of Moderna...

This report describes COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness against hospitalizations for all three vaccines, with Moderna as the most effective against hospitalization.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
 
Bullseye said:
Hard to say, although I know the current mythology points to Republicans.

You know which party Biden leads, right? So make a guess which "party line" I'm referring to.
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Do you believe Republicans, or more specifically, Trump supporters (who are the most likely, although simply not all to be vaccine hesitant) supported President Biden to begin with? Were they going to vote for him before the mandate?

So I'm sure you can show where some Democrat has said those exact words in the same context then.
 
roguenuke said:
Do you believe Republicans, or more specifically, Trump supporters (who are the most likely, although simply not all to be vaccine hesitant) supported President Biden to begin with? Were they going to vote for him before the mandate?
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Not just Republicans being forced into getting the shot.
roguenuke said:
So I'm sure you can show where some Democrat has said those exact words in the same context then.
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Yeah, I'll check all 80 gazillion Dems that voted for Biden and get back to you. :rolleyes:
 
Bullseye said:
Not just Republicans being forced into getting the shot.

Yeah, I'll check all 80 gazillion Dems that voted for Biden and get back to you. :rolleyes:
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Mainly Trump supporters who are fighting it. Like I said, not all, but a good percentage.

You claimed it was the party line. If you can't even show a single instance of it being used by some major player in the party, how could it be the party line?
 
Bullseye said:
This article suggests that maybe that cliches isn't completely accurate. I know some will gag at the source but it is thoroughly documented and even discusses some of the opposite views



If you're open to new information and willing to dig deeper than MSM slogans I suggest you spend the time to read it and follow some of the myriad links it provides.
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er uh BE, Florida passed NY for deaths and NY spotted them 30k. you can thank the DeSantis and the constant conservative lies.
 
Vern said:
er uh BE, Florida passed NY for deaths and NY spotted them 30k. you can thank the DeSantis and the constant conservative lies.
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Ah, Vern, I've been wondering where you were. I miss your continual LW blather - always good for a life.
 
TheParser said:
One reason for vaccine reluctant people is that they are bombarded by some pro-vaccine people who are thoroughly sanctimonious & cocksure that they know everything about the vaccines and that anyone who respectfully questions them is a horrible human being and even a traitor.

Maybe we would have been able to get a better handle on this tragedy if there had been a little HUMILITY on both sides.
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That's the reverse psychology folks using the handles installed by conservative media to get conservatives to not get vaccinated so they die.

Personally I think we should have run with forbidding them from getting the vaccines.

They'd all be vaccinated by now. To own those damn liberals.
 
If you got vaccinated in March or April, you are already in effect un-vaccinated. The efficacy wanes in 6 months...and some research shows the drop-off is even more dramatic. Flu vaccines begin losing their efficacy about 16% every month. The head of biotech has already admitted that the formula used in the initial COVID vaccine isnt effectively fighting the coming variants.
 
Heres the thing. We know what we know. You REALLY want to lean on "the science"? Masks dont work. Not because I say they dont but because OSHA and the research says they dont. The whole 6 foot social distancing thing is not scientific...it was a compromise...a figure a group of people agreed that citizens would tolerate. The virus IS deadly...potentially lethal...to elderly people with co morbid ailments and to people in bad health.

If you are overweight, battle high blood pressure, diabetes, and/or are elderly...get the shots. Hell...get the boosters.

Also...

If you are overweight, battle high blood pressure, diabetes, and/or are elderly...there has never been greater incentive to get in shape. Lose weight. Exercise. Build your own bodies ability to produce antibodies and protect yourself. Eat better. Go for walks. Get out in the sunshine.
 
VanceMack said:
If you got vaccinated in March or April, you are already in effect un-vaccinated. The efficacy wanes in 6 months...and some research shows the drop-off is even more dramatic. Flu vaccines begin losing their efficacy about 16% every month. The head of biotech has already admitted that the formula used in the initial COVID vaccine isnt effectively fighting the coming variants.
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That brings up a point that hasn't been mentioned AFIK.

The early adopters of the vaccine were less likely to have been infected with the vaccine in the following months, especially multiple times. Therefore those of us who waited for FDA approval and also believed Fauci and Wallensky's no more masking for the vaccinated announcement (and therefore got the vaccine), likely were infected more than once before we got it.

So, we have whatever immunity the vaccines provide for however long, plus the much stronger natural immunity brought about by prior infections to bridge that gap between vaccine failure and booster.

.
 
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