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Court rules against Oregon bakers who refused to make gay wedding cake [W:1685] (1 Viewer)

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I get better about ignoring certain people and then I relapse. I'll get there.

I get the lack of rational thought (believe me, I get that for some people here, rational thought is utterly absent), but what emotional basis do you think leads someone to support discrimination against a minority victim? Is it a partisan thing? I hope not because human rights are not a partisan issue. Is it religion? Is it just a need to argue? Something else?

Because their silly book of multiple choice tells them to and they're not bright enough to think about it on their own. Unfortunately, there are a huge number of people out there who care more about emotional comfort than factual truth. They care more about following an ideology than they do in being decent human beings. You'll find tons of them on here. Once I discover that they are incapable of intelligent thought, I toss them into my ignore filter. It's just not worth wasting time on most of their stupidity.
 
And thus discrimination is perpetuated by the small minded and illogical.

Exactly the kind of people who fall for religion and regressive ideologies.
 
Sure Mateo, straight white men are the source of all wrongdoing in the world, and utopia will commence promptly when they're either pushed aside, or outnumbered. Because just look at how much more advanced men of other cultures are when it comes to respecting the rights of others.

-Rap music has made it acceptable to refer to women as hoes and bitches.
- Women in many Muslim countries are considered the property of their husbands. Gays are beaten and imprisoned, if not outright killed, and the Arab minority in parts of north Africa has conducted what amounts to genocide against blacks.
- Latin America, with it's over-obsession with machismo, is a completely backwards place where many of us love to visit, but we sure as hell don't want to live. It's nice at a glance, and horrifying as a permanent reality.
- India is in a rape epidemic. The government literally makes advertisements asking men not to rape.
- China, until recently, forced mandatory abortions on women. It was common for women to abort their unborn, if the baby was going to be born female.

Boy, just wait til those straight white guys disappear! Heaven on earth!

My reference to white, straight men clearly triggered you. I thought that the context of my comment relating to the US was clear. I will generalize my assertion for you.

The majority group of every society to some extent, vicitimizes, marginalizes, and damages its minority groups. In many societies, anti-discrimination laws have been promulgated in order to counteract that disappointing reality. In most of those societies, minority groups tend to have more and better access to equal rights applied equally relative to the majority groups.

Except for your rap reference, which is wrong (do you call women hos and bitches?), every example you provided supports what I just said in this and the post to which you responded. You literally made my point.
 
Lolz, 'never discriminated against'. You have no clue what you're talking about whatsoever.

The founders never thought we'd be in such a state as to fine people $135k over a cake either. They would be more horrified to learn of that than of any supposed tyranny of a dwindling-soon-to-disappear majority.

Oh, you're worried about the day when the same old bigots become a smaller group than some other group. Can't help you there, bud. It's like resisting the tide of the ocean.

Anyway, minority groups have immeasurable more credibility to discuss discrimination than majority groups do. It's just that simple.
 
when is the last time you ordered a wedding cake?

did you have it delivered?

was there a tasting?

how many tiers? what types of decorations and fondants were used?

just a cake isnt even close....

just a cake is a cake sitting in a display case already made.....

a wedding cake is a piece of art, and the customer pays for that artistry

they can take a few hours, or i have seen a team on one cake for a day

not "just another cake"

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
 
No, this was prophesied in Scripture that there would be a "falling away" from the Truth. Started with the Mainline Protestant denominations as they turned their backs on the Word of God and adopted every popular idea that the world brings.

In other words they chose not to live in the past. Time always marches on you know.
 
Oh, you're worried about the day when the same old bigots become a smaller group than some other group. Can't help you there, bud. It's like resisting the tide of the ocean.

By 'same old bigots', I take it that you're referring to the 'straight white men' you referred to earlier. Funny isn't it, that these few scant areas of the world that were founded by straight white men are where millions of non-straight white men are dying to move to every year?

Why do 'other groups' leave everything behind in an attempt to live in the 'straight white men' counties, when straight white men are such bad tyrants?

Anyway, minority groups have immeasurable more credibility to discuss discrimination than majority groups do. It's just that simple.

Yes, I've heard this before; white men can't be victims of discrimination, because of white privilege/institutional unproven theories, and cuz racism. And if anyone disagrees with that, we'll brand them with the scarlet letter of 'Bigot', which immediately results in that person being judged with suspicion and hatred. Brilliant!
 
I see that artistry angle you are attempting (courts are considering it too), but there is a difference between a big, special cake that bakeries like the one we are discussing routinely produce and a custom cake that a bakery does not routinely produce. The gay couple wanted a wedding cake that the Christian bakers would have made for a heterosexual couple at the same moment they refused to make it for the homosexual couple. Oopsie, that's illegal.

i understand what the law is

i think "most" people do

i think the point, the only point i have been trying to make for awhile, and at least you acknowledged it, was the artistic aspect of all of this

when an artist has to comply with state edicts, i think we begin to lose something important

i dont know how we compromise as to who is and isnt an artist....that will be another major argument for people smarter than i am

but the arts have to have free speech....and the 3 bakers i personally know who make wedding cakes are artists

none of them would have denied this job....not one....that doesnt matter to me....that they should have the right is all that is important to me

same as any artist should have the right to turn down any commission work

that is my only point, and i hope the courts see some aspect of that
 
i understand what the law is

i think "most" people do

i think the point, the only point i have been trying to make for awhile, and at least you acknowledged it, was the artistic aspect of all of this

when an artist has to comply with state edicts, i think we begin to lose something important

i dont know how we compromise as to who is and isnt an artist....that will be another major argument for people smarter than i am

but the arts have to have free speech....and the 3 bakers i personally know who make wedding cakes are artists

none of them would have denied this job....not one....that doesnt matter to me....that they should have the right is all that is important to me

same as any artist should have the right to turn down any commission work

that is my only point, and i hope the courts see some aspect of that

I could understand the "art" defense IF the actual cake design was something that the baker wouldn't do for anyone, but that hasn't been the case in either case. If the couple wanted a cake with boobs all over it, or something else objectionable, then yeah the baker should and can refuse. But in this case and the CO case both bakers refused to make ANY wedding cake for the couples because they are gay. They were not objecting to the design, or words, or even the color of the cake, but who was buying the cake.
 
By 'same old bigots', I take it that you're referring to the 'straight white men' you referred to earlier. Funny isn't it, that these few scant areas of the world that were founded by straight white men are where millions of non-straight white men are dying to move to every year?

Why do 'other groups' leave everything behind in an attempt to live in the 'straight white men' counties, when straight white men are such bad tyrants?



Yes, I've heard this before; white men can't be victims of discrimination, because of white privilege/institutional unproven theories, and cuz racism. And if anyone disagrees with that, we'll brand them with the scarlet letter of 'Bigot', which immediately results in that person being judged with suspicion and hatred. Brilliant!

You're projecting that tired conservative script on me and completely ignoring the substance and meaning of too many posts. I feel too passionately about this topic to follow you down that rabbit hold and let you do what you're doing. Pity.
 
My reference to white, straight men clearly triggered you. I thought that the context of my comment relating to the US was clear. I will generalize my assertion for you.

The majority group of every society to some extent, vicitimizes, marginalizes, and damages its minority groups. In many societies, anti-discrimination laws have been promulgated in order to counteract that disappointing reality. In most of those societies, minority groups tend to have more and better access to equal rights applied equally relative to the majority groups.

Please name these societies. Complete list please.

Except for your rap reference, which is wrong (do you call women hos and bitches?), every example you provided supports what I just said in this and the post to which you responded. You literally made my point.

My post validates your claim that straight white men caused discrimination? No it doesn't.

See, here's what I don't understand; liberals are constantly telling us that we need to get out of our little American bubble, and learn about life in other countries. Yet these same liberals live life with blinders on when it comes to acknowledging the fact that disparity in other countries far, far outweighs any disparities in the United States. Denial of a gay wedding cake in the US is the very height of discrimination to them, while racial genocide in Africa gets a yawn and swift dismissal.
 
You're projecting that tired conservative script on me and completely ignoring the substance and meaning of too many posts. I feel too passionately about this topic to follow you down that rabbit hold and let you do what you're doing. Pity.

Your assertions hold no water when challenged. I get that. Oh well, have a good day.
 
the arts have to have free speech....and the 3 bakers i personally know who make wedding cakes are artists
Your appreciation of their work changes nothing.

First, those bakeries are undoubtedly acting as public accommodations, which means that as soon as the opened their door to the public, they should have known that in their state they are subject to anti-discrimination laws. That may well mean making cakes for people whose views do not match their own.

Second, claiming religious exemptions is not valid. We already have examples of people citing religious beliefs to defend other forms of discrimination, notably racial discrimination. It didn't work then, and there is no reason it should work now.

Third, the state is not the one telling the bakers what to "express," it is only telling the bakers that as public accommodations they cannot discriminate unlawfully against gays. Their job is to express what their customers ask them to express, not express their own opinions through their work.

The bakers can put up signs in their establishments stating their own views, but cannot refuse service when those views are discriminatory (or signs refusing service on that basis).

Thus: If they are going to make wedding cakes, then they have to make wedding cakes, regardless of their own personal religious views or the views of their customers. They can still refuse based on non-discriminatory and universally applied standards ("no shirt, no shoes, no service") but not based on standards that violate the law ("no blacks, no Irish").

For more information:
http://www.nmcompcomm.us/nmcases/nmsc/slips/SC33,687.pdf


same as any artist should have the right to turn down any commission work
Artists can refuse commissions -- but, if they are operating as a public accommodation, they cannot refuse on the basis of an unlawful discrimination.

E.g. they can refuse to take a commission because the prospective customer is a PITA. They can't refuse it solely because the customer is gay, or Hispanic, or male.
 
Obviously you were trying to make an analogy, but to contain even the remotest chance it's comparable, one needs to produce something that is at least somewhat plausible, not Mt. Everest sized illogical loonyness as you put on display here.

You may as well have tossed out King Kong laws for climbing the Empire State building or

New law: to get a business license, you have to first **** a dolphin.

:screwy

No, no...you don't even know what an analogy is, unless someone points it out for you. Obviously you're not capable of understanding the subject and therefor are a waste of time.
 
And again you favor anarchy over society. Like anti-discrimination laws, zoning laws are made to reduce conflict in a society. Your inability to appreciate such things is quite remarkable.

Ah...yes. Because the US was anarchy all the way into the 1920s. You keep using that word but I do not thing it means what you think it means.
 
Yea it was way over your head, no wonder you did not get it.

In the absence of intelligent reasoning and fueled by primitive uneducated thinking and ignorance that is about all you can do, spew crap.

Nothing you've said is even remotely higher level in any way that someone wouldn't be able to understand. You've made virtually no points beyond "Nuh-uh" and has been the equivalent of a monkey flinging feces. Your posts hold no content therefor don't deserve content in return. I think that main reason you're scared to make an actual point is that you're afraid it will be dismantled. It's OK...there are a lot of people who cannot defend their positions.
 
All of those groups are secular. They do good for totally non-religious reasons.

Goodwill-
Founded by Reverend Edgar J. Helms of Morgan Methodist Chapel in Boston. He started Goodwill as part of his ministry.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodwill_Industries

Red Cross-
Founded by Clara Barton, raised by a Christian Reverend, Barton wrote about 'praising God' for advancing her humanitarian efforts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clara_Barton

Amnesty International-
Founded by Peter Benenson, born Jewish, converted to Roman Catholicism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Benenson

UNICEF-
Founded by Ludwik Rajchman, a Christianized Polish Jew.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwik_Rajchman

4/5 groups you named wouldn't even exist today without the charitable work of Christians.

Really Cephus, your bias against Christians is just illogical. You couldn't even compose a list of 'secular' charities without the charitable work of Christians! :lol:
 
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Ah...yes. Because the US was anarchy all the way into the 1920s. You keep using that word but I do not thing it means what you think it means.

Govt. either makes changes as needed to preserve and protect society or it fails and anarchy results. The "good old days" is just a myth.
 
Govt. either makes changes as needed to preserve and protect society or it fails and anarchy results. The "good old days" is just a myth.

Interesting. That still didn't mean there is anarchy without something the authoritarian measures you support. Oh, and governments often fail due to too much power and oppressive systems. About the only ones that fail due to too little is from just being very economically weak. Strong economic governments don't fail due to too little imposing of power over it's citizens.
 
If a Muslim baker refuses service based on sexual orientation then they should face the same consequences.

What a naive twit, this is not how the activist agenda works, do you want to test it? Demand all the Muslim operated restaurants in your area cater your gay wedding and sue all that refuse. Don't hold your breath, no lawyer would waste his time with it; not a snowball's chance in hell of making a dime.

No mosque, church, temple or synagogue is covered under public accommodation laws, so they could refuse all they want, just like the Christian church in MS that refused a black couples wedding.

So then a public hotel may not refuse service to anyone, including KKK members?

How about black owned bakeries that are asked to bake KKK commemorative cakes for Democrats? Why Aren't they protected by the public accommodations laws? Would you supply a link to the law and the list of groups that its language specifically excludes?

Here you go champ, sue these xenophobes for not allowing "chicks with dicks" in their place.

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Good luck finding an activist lawyer to sue these people for all they are worth.

Besides the KKK Which other groups are specifically excluded from the protections of the public accommodations laws? The Black Panthers? Hamas? Hezbollah?"
 
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Wow LOL

over 1100 posts and just skimming it its funny to see the about 6 snowflakes loose their minds over equal rights and posters just destroying them over and over again. Always entertaining how people being treated equal huwrts the wittle fweeligns of some people.

Anyway glad these criminals were punished for their crimes. Easy solution for these dummies though, in the future simply dont break the law they agreed to follow. LMAO
 
What a naive twit, this is not how the activist agenda works, do you want to test it? Demand all the Muslim operated restaurants in your area cater your gay wedding and sue all that refuse. Don't hold your breath, no lawyer would waste his time with it; not a snowball's chance in hell of making a dime.



So then a public hotel may not refuse service to anyone, including KKK members?

How about black owned bakeries that are asked to bake KKK commemorative cakes for Democrats? Are they controlled by the public accommodations laws.

Besides the KKK Which other groups are specifically excluded from the protections of the public accommodations laws? The Black Panthers? Hamas? Hezbollah?"

You should try, I know it's hard but still, you should try reading more of the posts in a thread before posting your 'thoughts'. Every one of the points you think is relevant has already been dealt with multiple times. Your comments look more like trolling than an actual attempt to participate in a debate.
 
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