Constitution is outdated

[Gatsby]

Only to those who are completely ignorant about the US Constitution.


That depends on what you mean by "better."

There are countries with constitutions that have not been updated as often or are as current as the US Constitution. For example:

• Japan's Constitution hasn't changed since it went into effect in 1947.
• India's Constitution was last updated in 1972.
• The Australia's Constitution was last updated in 1977.
• Canada's Constitution was last updated in 1982.
• Mexico's Constitution was last updated in 1992.

The US Constitution dates from 1789. That is significantly more outdated than any of those.

The US Constitution was last updated in 1992.

For a meaningless amendment about congressional pay that doesn't affect our system of government at all. The last important update to the US Constitution was in 1920, when women got the right to vote. And the vast majority of the structure of our government still dates all the way back to 1789.

Countries that provide an easy process for amending their constitution tend to make changes more often.

Yes. I think making substantial updates at least once in the past 102 years is not asking too much.

That is nobody's metric anywhere.

Then what do you mean when you say our Constitution isn't outdated? What is YOUR metric of success?

Each of those changes you propose would require two-thirds of Congress (both houses) and three-fourths of the State legislatures approval.

Right. In other words, amending the Constitution is basically impossible for anything more important than congressional pay raises. And even that would have been impossible if the Founding Fathers hadn't already done most of the legwork by proposing it as part of the Bill of Rights and getting a handful of states to ratify it 200 years earlier.

That is where you are going to run into problems. States are sovereign in the US, and they generally do not like the federal government telling them what they need to do. So you are not going to get any amendment to the US Constitution past them if it makes them subservient to the federal government.

Right, I know. That's my point. The Constitution is outdated, and its outdatedness is self-reinforcing because it's impossible to amend it. The best we can do is ask the courts to de-facto amend the Constitution for us, and even that is an incredibly slow, random, and toxic process.

I realize that you truly hate the US and want to see it utterly destroyed, but trying to make the States slaves to the federal government is never going to happen.

I'm not sure why you are being so nasty, in response to a polite discussion about constitutional law and our system of government. What's the point of participating in the discussion if you have nothing to contribute beyond unwarranted hostility?

 

[jmotivator]

It has kept us in the dark ages

LOL "The Dark Ages".

Again, in the 1930s the great hotness in progressive political ideology was Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Soviet Union...

Our system might mean that some bad things are slow to go away, but it also makes it very hard to blunder into the great new idiocy as well. It's meticulous rather than slapdash.

 

[NewfieMom]

Imagine an easily modifiable constitution in the hands of Eugenics-loving, Pro-Hitler progressives in the 1930s!

Imagine you simplify the amendment process, write whatever amendment you like, and then have it overturned 2 years later...

Imagine getting all the amendments you want, and then you lose, the opposition overturns all of your amendments, passes others you hate, and then passes a new amendment raising the bar for all future amendments...

Having Trump in the White House was like having this kind of Constitution, which is having no Constitution at all. Because he had no respect for Constitutional norms. H ignored the Constition and acted in extra-constitutional ways at every turn. That is why I have posted that as a member of the Left, all I want is to see the Constitution respected by the Right. I do not need to see it updated. If the Right followed it, "the world would shine like the sun".*

*"Children of Paradise"

 

[jmotivator]

Having Trump in the White House was like having this kind of Constitution, which is having no Constitution at all. Because he had no respect for Constitutional norms.

Hyperbolic nonsense.

H ignored the Constition and acted in extra-constitutional ways at every turn. That is why I have posted that as a member of the Left, all I want is to see the Constitution respected by the Right. I do not need to see it updated. If the Right followed it, "the world would shine like the sun".*

Give examples.

 

[Indydave]

Lol

Talk about stating the obvious.

Watch, all the Trumpists will protest and say its fine. Why? Because it is so outdated that if they get 5 nuts on the court they can continue to live like its 1860.

They are bound and determined to buck nature and not progress.

throughout history liberals have had to drag conservatives kicking and screaming into the future

 

[Glitch]

The US Constitution dates from 1789. That is significantly more outdated than any of those.

For a meaningless amendment about congressional pay that doesn't affect our system of government at all. The last important update to the US Constitution was in 1920, when women got the right to vote. And the vast majority of the structure of our government still dates all the way back to 1789.

Your opinion of what you consider important is meaningless. Obviously two-thirds of Congress and three-fourths of the State legislatures thought it was important enough to warrant updating the US Constitution.

Yes. I think making substantial updates at least once in the past 102 years is not asking too much.

Maybe you should read up on the current 61 pending amendments to the US Constitution in the 117th Session of Congress and let them know which ones you consider "substantial" or "important." I'm quite certain that will immediately see the error of their ways and concede you to be the all-mighty omnipotent one.

Then what do you mean when you say our Constitution isn't outdated? What is YOUR metric of success?

Is Japan's, India's, Australia's, Canada's, or Mexico's constitutions outdated? The US is more current than all of them, and just as current as Mexico's constitution.

Right. In other words, amending the Constitution is basically impossible for anything more important than congressional pay raises. And even that would have been impossible if the Founding Fathers hadn't already done most of the legwork by proposing it as part of the Bill of Rights and getting a handful of states to ratify it 200 years earlier.

Right, I know. That's my point. The Constitution is outdated, and its outdatedness is self-reinforcing because it's impossible to amend it. The best we can do is ask the courts to de-facto amend the Constitution for us, and even that is an incredibly slow, random, and toxic process.

I'm not sure why you are being so nasty, in response to a polite discussion about constitutional law and our system of government. What's the point of participating in the discussion if you have nothing to contribute beyond unwarranted hostility?

You have to know by now that every time you say the US Constitution is outdated it only makes you appear uneducated. Is that truly your objective? You should have gotten an education instead of that leftist indoctrination, it would have served you better. Perhaps then you could have comprehended the meaning of "updated."

 

[Rich2018]

Hyperbolic nonsense.

No, absolutely true
Trump had no respect for the Constitution or the office in which he besmirched.

 

[Paul191145]

Yeah, I am
I am a descendant of those people who were imported as capital goods. So it was outdated as soon as it was signed.

This is entirely irrelevant and in no way an excuse for judging something based purely on your own abject ignorance.

 

[psikeyhackr]

This is entirely irrelevant and in no way an excuse for judging something based purely on your own abject ignorance.

Yeah my ignorance is really abject.

The Chronological History of the Negro in America

The chronological history of the Negro in America : Bergman, Peter M : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

698 p. 22 cm

archive.org

Twelve Years a Slave by Solomon Northup

Twelve Years a Slave by Solomon Northup

Free kindle book and epub digitized and proofread by volunteers.

gutenberg.org

There is so much stuff that can be downloaded as EPUB files and played with text to speech software. I use AIReader.

Most of you haoles don't read much.

 

[Paul191145]

Yeah my ignorance is really abject.

The Chronological History of the Negro in America

The chronological history of the Negro in America : Bergman, Peter M : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

698 p. 22 cm

archive.org

Twelve Years a Slave by Solomon Northup

Twelve Years a Slave by Solomon Northup

Free kindle book and epub digitized and proofread by volunteers.

gutenberg.org

There is so much stuff that can be downloaded as EPUB files and played with text to speech software. I use AIReader.

Most of you haoles don't read much.

Still avoiding the actual subject I see, which is the Constitution.

 

[Paul191145]

No, absolutely true
Trump had no respect for the Constitution or the office in which he besmirched.

Same goes for every other POTUS for at least the past 60 years, regardless of their party affiliation.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Still avoiding the actual subject I see, which is the Constitution.

The subject was a dead letter from Day 1.

 

[Paul191145]

The subject was a dead letter from Day 1.

Feel free to quantify that assertion by quoting which Article and Section you consider to be the worst.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Feel free to quantify that assertion by quoting which Article and Section you consider to be the worst.

Interpretation: The Slave Trade Clause | Constitution Center

Interpretations of The Slave Trade Clause by constitutional scholars

constitutioncenter.org

Slavery may be the most extreme form of economic servitude but technology has changed how the economic power games are played.

Products are much more complex and difficult to evaluate. So planned obsolescence has become high tech slavery and economists are OK with saying nothing about the depreciation of consumer junk.

We hear the word FREEDOM in this country all of the time but it amounts to free to be ripped off.

The Screwing of the Average Man by David Hapgood is far more up to date than the constitution.

 

[Paul191145]

Interpretation: The Slave Trade Clause | Constitution Center

Interpretations of The Slave Trade Clause by constitutional scholars

constitutioncenter.org

Slavery may be the most extreme form of economic servitude but technology has changed how the economic power games are played.

Products are much more complex and difficult to evaluate. So planned obsolescence has become high tech slavery and economists are OK with saying nothing about the depreciation of consumer junk.

We hear the word FREEDOM in this country all of the time but it amounts to free to be ripped off.

The Screwing of the Average Man by David Hapgood is far more up to date than the constitution.

That's nice, now learn about the 3/5 compromise and how it was enacted to weaken the voting power of slave owning states. Slavery was abhorrent, no argument there, but it was nearly ubiquitous all over the world since the dawn of civilization. People from Africa were captured and enslaved at the time because it was economically efficient, not merely due to the color of their skin. However, if you simply want to whine about historical injustices, there's an entire planet's worth, and slavery still exists to this day in some places.

 

[reinaert]

If we rewrite the Constitution, essentially creating a new compact among the states, let’s kick out California, New York, and Massachusetts.

Cool. When you're starving to death and dying of thirst because rain prayers don't work and all that coastal money that would've rescued your sorry asses is now being put to better use, you can sign with Beijing or Moscow for a balloon payment bailout. Very cool. Next time I'm in Boston I'll let some people know you guys are really the rubes you seem to be.

 

[fmw]

Lol

Talk about stating the obvious.

Watch, all the Trumpists will protest and say its fine. Why? Because it is so outdated that if they get 5 nuts on the court they can continue to live like its 1860.

They are bound and determined to buck nature and not progress.

Elections have consequences. Go vote. It probably won't matter but at least you can feel like you tried to do something.

 

[fmw]

The Constitution gave foreign affairs and national defense to the Executive Branch. Congress never gave the EPA the authority for “outside the fence” regulation of pollution.

And the court said that, when they are doing draconian things like putting entire industries out of business, they need to put it to congress. It certainly meets the common sense requirement.

 

[Ahlevah]

Cool. When you're starving to death and dying of thirst because rain prayers don't work and all that coastal money that would've rescued your sorry asses is now being put to better use, you can sign with Beijing or Moscow for a balloon payment bailout. Very cool. Next time I'm in Boston I'll let some people know you guys are really the rubes you seem to be.

California’s running out of water, which we have. San Francisco is fighting with agricultural interests in the Central Valley over Sierra Nevada runoff, and in Southern California the Colorado is drying up, with Lake Mead at 25% capacity. This is before other states like fast-growing Utah begin claiming their entire legal allotment of water coming from the river. Basically, we own that. California’s screwed, but at least it has good lawyers.

So as California continues to dry up it makes more sense to get our veggies from Florida or Latin America. Peaches we get from Georgia; Oranges from Florida; Apples from Washington; corn and wheat from the Midwest; beef from Texas; chickens and pork from here. We’ll be fine even with California reverting to a desert. We have fewer than 3 million people to feed here. California has almost 40 million, with more poor migrants to feed arriving every day. Good luck.

If California is to have a navy or an air force, it can either buy its worships and planes from China, or us, since it gutted its steel, shipbuilding, and aerospace defense industries. If it wants large, capital worships like aircraft carriers, it will have to buy them from us, since San Diego’s NAASCO yard is a runt by comparison to Mississippi’’s Ingalls and Virginia’s Newport News yards. Submarines, too. It has no capacity of capability for making those either.

The fact is California needs us more than we need them, unless they plan on protecting us by tweeting our enemies to death or helping us survive on almonds.

 

[bomberfox]

I just love how these whining "liberal" activists have spent the last six years dealing with the Trump Administration and the lasting consequences of the Trump Administration and they are so baselessly self-righteous and baselessly overconfident that they think all they need to do to get what they want is remove the Constitutional limits on what the reich-wing are allowed to do to them.

As if... when they're allowed to do whatever they want, the "Republican base" are all just going to stop voting.

Idiots. Mindless, thoughtless, self-destructive shitgremlins.

Eh the way the senate works directly benefits the right wing. It is an inherently reactionary institution. You shouldnt need supermajorities to do what every other democracy has solved years ago.

 

[bomberfox]

Democracy was attacked and none of your AR-15s defended it. Curious!

Yeah i would take these NRA types a bit more seriously if they actually were fighting against tyranny but since they have so glommed onto republicans their definition of tyranny doesnt include police brutality, enslavement through mass incarceration, the near genocide of migrants, etc. no their only definition of tyranny is gun laws and mask mandates.

 

[NatMorton]

And the court said that, when they are doing draconian things like putting entire industries out of business, they need to put it to congress. It certainly meets the common sense requirement.

Are we ruled by the Constitution or by the courts?

 

[fmw]

Are we ruled by the Constitution or by the courts?

The constitution. The courts are defined by the constitution. Courts don't rule except on cases. We have three branches of government that together rule.

 

[American]

So far I have a 100% rate of conservatives falling for it when I use that quote.

I was quoting Thomas Jefferson, Schism. I see @Captain Adverse fell for it too.

Real cute, so do you have amendment to present to us?

 

[psikeyhackr]

The constitution. The courts are defined by the constitution. Courts don't rule except on cases. We have three branches of government that together rule.

So how did Roe v Wade change back and forth?