Conservative introspection?

[Opossum]

Actually, the increases in premiums slowed after the ACA was passed. Millions receive subsidies on ACA plans now. Tens of millions qualified for Medicaid, thus getting coverage they didn't have before.

The premium increases slowing, that is only after the premiums jumped up considerably on those who pay for health insurance outside of Obamacare.

Oh, and remember back in the day, when insurers could refuse to cover pre-existing conditions? Yup, that's gone. Thanks, Obama!

Guess what? I actually agree with that aspect of Obamacare, so I don't just disagree because who did it.

Uh, hello? The prediction wasn't that "maybe perhaps someday there will be death panels!!!" It's been 14 years. There were no such panels then, and no such panels now. It was a baseless and hysterical attack on the ACA.

14 years isn't that long. Only children think in such a short-sited manner.

In many respects, the US is actually worse off than the UK or Canada -- because there are still 26 million Americans, or 8% of the population, without health insurance, and thus can't afford care.

The US is also basically the only country in the world where medical issues can result in bankruptcy. Up to 60% of US bankruptcies involve medical issues, e.g. borrowing against your home to pay for medical costs, or lost a job because of illness, or owed more than $1,000 in medical bills at the time of bankruptcy. Seriously, think about that for a moment -- almost nowhere else in the world are people declaring bankruptcy because of their medical bills.

The US also spends twice as much per capita on health care than comparable nations -- with little to show for it. Infant mortality is higher; life expectancy is shorter; wait lists for anything other than an MRI are comparable... The list goes on.

Plenty of Canadians are nearly in the same boat, with the wait times they have to endure. So far as healthcare costs putting people into bankruptcies, that's definitely an issue but that doesn't mean the solution doesn't have it's own brand of drawbacks. I'm not 100% against what Obamacare is trying to do but I'm also not naïve to the potential issues. The final point you made can be largely chalked up to three things, we are very unhealthy/fat and our pharmaceutical companies have been given a monopoly on us, and Obamacare does not address that, and finally we are a very litigious society and legal costs have a very large effect on medical costs.

 

[US&THEM]

Well, that was incoherent. It was a lie because it was true because trash because Hobby Lobby because China because labor laws.

The ACA does not allow insurers to have the shit plans with zero coverage, the person who lost their plan, lost it because it was junk with nothing but a premium.

 

[eman623]

The ACA does not allow insurers to have the shit plans with zero coverage, the person who lost their plan, lost it because it was junk with nothing but a premium.

And what of Obama's lie of the year then? He repeated it 38 times.

Do you enjoy bring lied to?

 

[Deuce]

Conservatives already won on Obamacare.

Their main concerns of the PPACA were forcing insurers to offer birth control, forcing states to run insurance exchanges and the mandate.

Burwell v Hobby Lobby killed the birth control requirement, Sebelius allowed states to opt of of the exchanges, and the mandate was effectively overturned when the penaltax was zeroed out legislatively under Trump.

Win, win, win. One almost gets tired of winning so much. Almost.

lol just pretending that cries of death panels, government dictating who your doctor is, government euthanizing old people, etc, weren't constant cries from the right.

 

[eman623]

lol just pretending that cries of death panels, government dictating who your doctor is, government euthanizing old people, etc, weren't constant cries from the right.

The government dictating your doctor turned out to be true. Obama lied. 38 times.

 

[Deuce]

The government dictating your doctor turned out to be true.

No the **** it didn't

Right wingers lie about everything.

 

[US&THEM]

And what of Obama's lie of the year then? He repeated it 38 times.

Do you enjoy bring lied to?

People didn’t realize how bad their existing plan was and therefore it was a benefit. You want to hang your hat on that you surely can, desperate times make people desperate for attention. Congrats

 

[US&THEM]

The government dictating your doctor turned out to be true. Obama lied. 38 times.

You understand the insurance companies are private companies? Remember Obamacare is gong to bankrupt them! Nope

 

[eman623]

No the **** it didn't

Right wingers lie about everything.

Lol. I'm lying. Which is true but can't be true because I lie about everything but then it would have to be true. This is when smoke comes out of you ears.

You are lying. Politifact is not a RW site

 

[Deuce]

Lol. I'm lying. Which is true but can't be true because I lie about everything but then it would have to be true. This is when smoke comes out of you ears.

You are lying. Politifact is not a RW site

Which government agency assigned your doctor to you? Because I have chosen every doctor I have ever seen.

Right wingers lie about everything.

It never happened. All the bullshit you people claimed. The government never chose an insurance plan for you. The government never chose a doctor for you. The government never chose a treatment for you. They never set up a death panel to decide whether or not it is worth the financial resources to try and keep you alive. You know who did those things? Your insurance company. Your doctor has to ask them permission to give you any major treatments, and they have a computer actually making that decision. A computer that doesn't care whether you live or die, you're just a query being responded to by an algorithm.

 

[Diving Mullah]

Perusing this new Chait article on "Why Republicans Won’t Say Anything About Obamacare" and I'm struck by his concluding points:



We can all laugh about Reagan's looney tunes Medicare predictions, but they're arguably a lot less deranged than the standard GOP fare about the Affordable Care Act was. And that wasn't just some issue, it was the animating force in the GOP--well, other than giving rich people tax cuts--for a decade. It was the thing that brought cohesion to the party before it decided to just become a Cult of Trump--and even he's just continued to push the old party line about repeal (even into the current campaign, where it feels positively anachronistic and bizarre). Anti-ACA fervor was core to the entire identity of the contemporary right.

Is there a point where someone (anyone?) in the conservative movement does some basic introspection on that hysterical decade? Considers some of the basic questions ("Hey, was I wrong about that stuff? Did I overreact a little bit on that?")? Is Year 14 a little early for that sort of reflection, maybe next year?

Obama Care is pretty bad....Affordable Care Act, has its flaws, it’s important to remember the adage, “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” Interestingly, the concept behind Obamacare was initially proposed by Republicans, including Newt Gingrich, during the Clinton administration. Despite its criticisms, Obamacare introduced a system of protection that was previously non-existent.

However, the challenge lay in President Obama’s political capacity to implement a more comprehensive plan. He could have potentially nationalized Medicare without Congressional approval, but such a move might have jeopardized his chances of a second term.

On the other hand, the Republicans appear to lack alternative solutions or plans, raising questions about their governing capabilities. A glance at Congressional achievements seems to support this view. Currently, it appears that the Republican strategy is to incite fear about issues such as immigration, progressive ideologies, LGBTQ+ rights, and the Black Lives Matter movement.

It is intriguing ...Looking at Previous Republican Presidents, with Reagan, Bush I(I give pass to him, he had to deal with the shit show the Regan brought to him) BushII and Trump the country seems to always be in worse shape than when they started and it takes a Democrat to pull the country out of the gutter, and yet people keep electing these types of Republicans! The very definition of insanity, doing things over and over again and expecting different results.

Diving Mullah

 

[Greenbeard]

Which government agency assigned your doctor to you? Because I have chosen every doctor I have ever seen.

And there’s the crux of the thread. This was a far-fetched thing to believe would happen 15 years ago, but then so was most of the stuff the right claimed was in the ACA (back in the chain email era) or predicted it would lead to.

But okay, righties back then believed it. Have they now taken a pause to absorb that it didn’t (and perhaps to reflect on why they believed this at the time, and any broader epistemological implications for their world view or their faith in right wing politicians)?

Nope! They’re just absurdly claiming it did happen, the government now picks your doctor for you. Amazing stuff.

Say what you will about the mischaracterizations of Pelosi’s famous conviction that passing the ACA would at last clear up for people what was actually in it and true about it, she was undoubtedly way wrong on that one (at least for the furthest-gone right wing deadenders).

 

[VanceMack]

Here's Where Health Insurance Costs Are Rising in 2023 and What You Can Do About It

A new report shows Marketplace insurance premiums will increase in 2023, but you should not cancel your coverage. Learn where and how much costs are increasing, and how you can offset it.

www.verywellhealth.com

Recent data released by Value Penguin, a personal finance and research analysis site, shows that health insurance premiums for private plans purchased under the Healthcare Marketplace, the Affordable Care Act’s official federal health insurance exchange, will increase in 36 states in 2023.1 Premiums are the amount of money you pay for coverage each month.

A survey revealed that almost 40% of the 1,550 respondents said they might even consider going without health insurance if their premiums become too costly.2

Experts warn that forgoing health insurance could lead to tragic health outcomes and greater care costs for all Americans. Here’s where insurance premiums are most likely to increase, and how you can offset costs.

How Much Will Premiums Increase in 2023?

The Average Cost of Health Insurance (2023) report showed the average healthcare insurance premium for a 40-year-old on a silver plan—the most common tier—purchased through the Marketplace will be $560 per month, a 4% increase over last year.

The five states that will see the steepest increase in average monthly premiums for silver plans in 2023 are:1

• Georgia: $474—a 20.30% increase from $394 in 2022
• Colorado: $489—a 19.56% increase from $409 in 2022
• Wyoming: $882—a 15.45% increase from $764 in 2022
• Alaska: $822—a 14.97% increase from $715 in 2022
• New Mexico: $551—a 14.79% increase from $480 in 2022

Like I said...the people that love the ACA are most likely the same crippled dependent pets that supported this debacle from the get go.

 

[Greenbeard]

How Much Will Premiums Increase in 2023?

The Average Cost of Health Insurance (2023) report showed the average healthcare insurance premium for a 40-year-old on a silver plan—the most common tier—purchased through the Marketplace will be $560 per month, a 4% increase over last year.

Average inflation from 2022 to 2023 was … 4.1%. Who on the right predicted the ACA would slow premium growth to bring it into line with general economy-wide inflation?

 

[Deuce]

Here's Where Health Insurance Costs Are Rising in 2023 and What You Can Do About It

A new report shows Marketplace insurance premiums will increase in 2023, but you should not cancel your coverage. Learn where and how much costs are increasing, and how you can offset it.

www.verywellhealth.com

Recent data released by Value Penguin, a personal finance and research analysis site, shows that health insurance premiums for private plans purchased under the Healthcare Marketplace, the Affordable Care Act’s official federal health insurance exchange, will increase in 36 states in 2023.1 Premiums are the amount of money you pay for coverage each month.

A survey revealed that almost 40% of the 1,550 respondents said they might even consider going without health insurance if their premiums become too costly.2

Experts warn that forgoing health insurance could lead to tragic health outcomes and greater care costs for all Americans. Here’s where insurance premiums are most likely to increase, and how you can offset costs.

How Much Will Premiums Increase in 2023?

The Average Cost of Health Insurance (2023) report showed the average healthcare insurance premium for a 40-year-old on a silver plan—the most common tier—purchased through the Marketplace will be $560 per month, a 4% increase over last year.

The five states that will see the steepest increase in average monthly premiums for silver plans in 2023 are:1

• Georgia: $474—a 20.30% increase from $394 in 2022
• Colorado: $489—a 19.56% increase from $409 in 2022
• Wyoming: $882—a 15.45% increase from $764 in 2022
• Alaska: $822—a 14.97% increase from $715 in 2022
• New Mexico: $551—a 14.79% increase from $480 in 2022

Like I said...the people that love the ACA are most likely the same crippled dependent pets that supported this debacle from the get go.

The ACA did not permanently stop healthcare costs from rising, correct. Were...you expecting it to?

 

[VanceMack]

The ACA did not permanently stop healthcare costs from rising, correct. Were...you expecting it to?

Nope...I fully expected it to cause increases.

 

[VanceMack]

Average inflation from 2022 to 2023 was … 4.1%. Who on the right predicted the ACA would slow premium growth to bring it into line with general economy-wide inflation?

I fully expected you to be so mindlessly bought into the shit your rat gods produced that you would be incapable of introspection.

"A survey revealed that almost 40% of the 1,550 respondents said they might even consider going without health insurance if their premiums become too costly"

• Georgia: $474—a 20.30% increase from $394 in 2022
• Colorado: $489—a 19.56% increase from $409 in 2022
• Wyoming: $882—a 15.45% increase from $764 in 2022
• Alaska: $822—a 14.97% increase from $715 in 2022
• New Mexico: $551—a 14.79% increase from $480 in 2022

Which doesnt even begin to touch the fact that many have to select deductibles that they likely wont meet just to keep premiums down...making their insurance essentially worthless unless they have catastrophic ailments.

 

[Greenbeard]

"A survey revealed that almost 40% of the 1,550 respondents said they might even consider going without health insurance if their premiums become too costly

I see you haven’t been keeping up on current events. Enrollment has been going up (to all-time highs), not down.

ObamaCare enrollment breaks record for third consecutive year

Health insurance enrollment through the Affordable Care Act’s (ACA) insurance marketplace has reached a record for the third consecutive year, according to the latest update from the Centers …

thehill.com

Which doesnt even begin to touch the fact that many have to select deductibles that they likely wont meet just to keep premiums down...making their insurance essentially worthless unless they have catastrophic ailments.

Are you proposing to ban high-deductible options? The (false) right wing complaint fifteen years ago was that Obamacare was supposedly going to take away the option of trading off higher deductibles for lower premiums. Now the existence of such options in the marketplace is undesirable?

 

[Nickyjo]

Here's Where Health Insurance Costs Are Rising in 2023 and What You Can Do About It

A new report shows Marketplace insurance premiums will increase in 2023, but you should not cancel your coverage. Learn where and how much costs are increasing, and how you can offset it.

www.verywellhealth.com

Recent data released by Value Penguin, a personal finance and research analysis site, shows that health insurance premiums for private plans purchased under the Healthcare Marketplace, the Affordable Care Act’s official federal health insurance exchange, will increase in 36 states in 2023.1 Premiums are the amount of money you pay for coverage each month.

A survey revealed that almost 40% of the 1,550 respondents said they might even consider going without health insurance if their premiums become too costly.2

Experts warn that forgoing health insurance could lead to tragic health outcomes and greater care costs for all Americans. Here’s where insurance premiums are most likely to increase, and how you can offset costs.

How Much Will Premiums Increase in 2023?

The Average Cost of Health Insurance (2023) report showed the average healthcare insurance premium for a 40-year-old on a silver plan—the most common tier—purchased through the Marketplace will be $560 per month, a 4% increase over last year.

The five states that will see the steepest increase in average monthly premiums for silver plans in 2023 are:1

• Georgia: $474—a 20.30% increase from $394 in 2022
• Colorado: $489—a 19.56% increase from $409 in 2022
• Wyoming: $882—a 15.45% increase from $764 in 2022
• Alaska: $822—a 14.97% increase from $715 in 2022
• New Mexico: $551—a 14.79% increase from $480 in 2022

Like I said...the people that love the ACA are most likely the same crippled dependent pets that supported this debacle from the get go.

Right. We should get over it and do what we will eventually: some form of Medicare for all.

 

[Greenbeard]

14 years isn't that long. Only children think in such a short-sited manner.

The claim was: "The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’ whether they are worthy of health care."

Surely 14 years has been enough time for you to ascertain whether the ACA created such a panel?

 

[Opossum]

The claim was: "The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’ whether they are worthy of health care."

Surely 14 years has been enough time for you to ascertain whether the ACA created such a panel?

The UK didn't go straight to death panel. It was founded in '48 and they only recently started their death panels. Canada started their healthcare in '84 and now they tell people they should kill themselves.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Perusing this new Chait article on "Why Republicans Won’t Say Anything About Obamacare" and I'm struck by his concluding points:



We can all laugh about Reagan's looney tunes Medicare predictions, but they're arguably a lot less deranged than the standard GOP fare about the Affordable Care Act was. And that wasn't just some issue, it was the animating force in the GOP--well, other than giving rich people tax cuts--for a decade. It was the thing that brought cohesion to the party before it decided to just become a Cult of Trump--and even he's just continued to push the old party line about repeal (even into the current campaign, where it feels positively anachronistic and bizarre). Anti-ACA fervor was core to the entire identity of the contemporary right.

Is there a point where someone (anyone?) in the conservative movement does some basic introspection on that hysterical decade? Considers some of the basic questions ("Hey, was I wrong about that stuff? Did I overreact a little bit on that?")? Is Year 14 a little early for that sort of reflection, maybe next year?

Conservative Introspection....

I suggest you have coined a new Oxymoron.

 

[Greenbeard]

The UK didn't go straight to death panel. It was founded in '48 and they only recently started their death panels. Canada started their healthcare in '84 and now they tell people they should kill themselves.

That's a very convoluted way of acknowledging that the ACA didn't contain or create death panels.

 

[Opossum]

That's a very convoluted way of acknowledging that the ACA didn't contain or create death panels.

Dishonest post is dishonest.

 

[Greenbeard]

Dishonest post is dishonest.

Suggesting we have to wait 70 years to determine if the ACA created death panels is your version of honesty?