• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Congress Attempts to Kill the "Third-Party Threat

NoMoreDems-Reps

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Messages
1,011
Reaction score
166
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I saw this and thought it was interesting.
"
Crooks flock together--I heard about this a while back and didnt believe it now its poping up again...It goes to show that they want a 2 party system because both are crooks working for the same muppet bastard.

Congress Attempts to Kill the "Third-Party Threat"

Proposed Legislation Creates Treasury-Funded Campaigns for the Two Major Parties, Leaving Third Parties with No Means to Run


(Washington, D.C.) On February 1, congressional Democrats, led by Rep. Obey of Wisconsin, introduced a bill, H.R. 4694, that would end viable, third-party competition in races for the U.S. House of Representatives.



The bill, ironically named the "Let the People Decide Clean Campaign Act," would mandate public funds (taken from the U.S. Treasury) to candidates for the House of Representatives and forbid candidates from taking private funds such as contributions from individual donors.



The ambiguously-written bill provides funds for candidates of the "two major parties" but essentially scuttles any campaign efforts of third-party or independent candidates.



For third-party candidates to be eligible for the same funds that Republicans and Democrats would receive, they would have to obtain enough signatures to exceed 20% of votes cast in the last election within their district.



The catch under the proposed legislation is that third-party or independent candidates cannot pay petitioners to collect any signatures, making it impossible to fund their campaigns.



H.R. 4694 is yet another attempt by our politicians in office to shut down Libertarian Party candidates and other competitive third-party and independent campaigns.



"The Republican and Democratic parties exist to maintain power for their own benefit. The Libertarian Party exists to grasp power for the benefit of the nation," stated Shane Cory, chief of staff for the Libertarian Party. "American voters are waking up to this reality, and as they do, the two parties are trying everything within their power to shut us down."
http://www.lp.org/media/article_284.shtml
"
 

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
43,602
Reaction score
26,255
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
NoMoreDems-Reps said:
I saw this and thought it was interesting.
"
Crooks flock together--I heard about this a while back and didnt believe it now its poping up again...It goes to show that they want a 2 party system because both are crooks working for the same muppet bastard.

Congress Attempts to Kill the "Third-Party Threat"

Proposed Legislation Creates Treasury-Funded Campaigns for the Two Major Parties, Leaving Third Parties with No Means to Run


(Washington, D.C.) On February 1, congressional Democrats, led by Rep. Obey of Wisconsin, introduced a bill, H.R. 4694, that would end viable, third-party competition in races for the U.S. House of Representatives.



The bill, ironically named the "Let the People Decide Clean Campaign Act," would mandate public funds (taken from the U.S. Treasury) to candidates for the House of Representatives and forbid candidates from taking private funds such as contributions from individual donors.



The ambiguously-written bill provides funds for candidates of the "two major parties" but essentially scuttles any campaign efforts of third-party or independent candidates.



For third-party candidates to be eligible for the same funds that Republicans and Democrats would receive, they would have to obtain enough signatures to exceed 20% of votes cast in the last election within their district.



The catch under the proposed legislation is that third-party or independent candidates cannot pay petitioners to collect any signatures, making it impossible to fund their campaigns.



H.R. 4694 is yet another attempt by our politicians in office to shut down Libertarian Party candidates and other competitive third-party and independent campaigns.



"The Republican and Democratic parties exist to maintain power for their own benefit. The Libertarian Party exists to grasp power for the benefit of the nation," stated Shane Cory, chief of staff for the Libertarian Party. "American voters are waking up to this reality, and as they do, the two parties are trying everything within their power to shut us down."
http://www.lp.org/media/article_284.shtml
"

The bill wont fly either. Violation of the First Amendment. However, if you have taken Badnarik's Constitution Class, you can see that the Constitution has been violated numerous times.
 

Schweddy

Benevolent Dictator
Administrator
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
12,224
Reaction score
6,338
Location
Plano, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
danarhea said:
The bill wont fly either. Violation of the First Amendment. However, if you have taken Badnarik's Constitution Class, you can see that the Constitution has been violated numerous times.
Link that again will yah? I took the first two video's, but then forgot about it.

Back to topic, in many states it is already the case.

Here in Texas, if you vote in the primaries, you cannot petition for someone on the ticket that is not of the "two major parties".
 

Carl

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
159
Reaction score
0
Location
Lindenhurst, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Somehow I find pleadings of conspiracy aimed at the "threat" posed by parties that have yet to obtain even a single electoral vote.....overstated.
 

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
43,602
Reaction score
26,255
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative

Carl

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
159
Reaction score
0
Location
Lindenhurst, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
danarhea" said:
I highly recommend this course to everyone in this forum.

Though I cannot help but be sympathetic to the ideals of Mr. Badnarik, I have no choice but to condemn his battlefield tactics.

One aspect of the battlefield that can rarely be modified is the terrain. In America, right or wrong, the terrain is two parties. Those who choose to operate outside those two parties guarantee their own defeat.

Were Badnarik a skilled tactician, operating within the Republican party, he could be a force for positive change.
 

taxedout

NONE
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
949
Reaction score
3
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I've treid to generate interest in this topic on other forums, but to no avail.
I'm convinced that people just like smoke up their backsides.
They love to be lied to, and they love to be told everything is going to be OK.
Most of all, they believe the glowing orb in the corner of the living room, telling them that anything not approved by the Big Two is based on conspiracy theory and paranoia. I doubt that many will get very excited about this. After all, would congress want to pass anything if it wasn't good for the people ?
 

Carl

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
159
Reaction score
0
Location
Lindenhurst, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
taxedout said:
they believe the glowing orb in the corner of the living room, telling them that anything not approved by the Big Two is based on conspiracy theory and paranoia.

No, that's not the situation. They simply realize that if you're going to be in the game, you have to play on the field that exists. In America, that means you select one of the two parties that represent the actual terrain.

The refusal to accept third-party candidates is not a weakness of the people, it is a failure of the candidates to recognize the realities of the battlefield.
 

taxedout

NONE
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
949
Reaction score
3
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Carl said:
Were Badnarik a skilled tactician, operating within the Republican party, he could be a force for positive change.


I wish it were so, but I feel he would quickly fail to be a force for anything.
The republican party has all but forsaken conservativism. It belongs to the kinder, gentler new world order now.
 

Carl

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
159
Reaction score
0
Location
Lindenhurst, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
taxedout said:
The republican party has all but forsaken conservativism.

The Contract With America:Renewed

Limited-government conservatism is back. You know what I mean: the kind of conservatism espoused by Barry Goldwater and then championed by President Ronald Reagan – the kind of conservatism that the revolutionary congressional class of 1994 brought to the American people in the form of the Contract with America.

It is this brand of conservatism – a brand dedicated to limiting the size and scope of the federal government, a brand that recognizes that big government is not good government just because it is our government – that has sadly been missing of late. But no longer.

On Wednesday, members of the conservative Republican Study Committee in the House of Representatives took it upon themselves to single-handedly resurrect the philosophical heart and soul of the Republican Party.
 

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
43,602
Reaction score
26,255
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Carl said:
No, that's not the situation. They simply realize that if you're going to be in the game, you have to play on the field that exists. In America, that means you select one of the two parties that represent the actual terrain.

The refusal to accept third-party candidates is not a weakness of the people, it is a failure of the candidates to recognize the realities of the battlefield.

The field that exists is dominated by crooks and liars of the 2 major parties.

As for the realities of the battlefield, you would be willing to go along with that, and the 2 major parties destroy this nation? With all due respect, that is the coward's way out. No, I do not think you are a cowards, and I dont think you are dumb. You are one of the smarter people on this board, you are well known for debating the facts in a civil manner, and you have my respect. So with this in mind, all I ask of you is to open up your mind a little, and take the course I posted the link to. Keep an open mind at all times as you take the course, and when it is over, tell me what you learned from it. No, I am not being condescending. We ALL learn in life, and I am no exception either. I learned many things from the course, mostly how our leaders have betrayed our founding fathers.
 

Carl

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
159
Reaction score
0
Location
Lindenhurst, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
danarhea said:
The field that exists is dominated by crooks and liars of the 2 major parties.

If there were five parties, it would be dominated by the crooks and liars of the five major parties.

This is simply not an argument. There are two parties of crooks and liars. If you're a third party candidate, and are not hopelessly ignorant, you will work within the existing terrain of crooks and liars. Else you will share the world record of all third-party candidates....zero electoral votes.

Nothing can be accomplished if one is not elected, short of whining about crooks and liars.
 

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
43,602
Reaction score
26,255
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Carl said:
If there were five parties, it would be dominated by the crooks and liars of the five major parties.

This is simply not an argument. There are two parties of crooks and liars. If you're a third party candidate, and are not hopelessly ignorant, you will work within the existing terrain of crooks and liars. Else you will share the world record of all third-party candidates....zero electoral votes.

So which party do you prefer to work with? The DemoCommunist Party or the RepubliCommunist Party? That is pretty much what it is coming down to.
 

Carl

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
159
Reaction score
0
Location
Lindenhurst, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
danarhea said:
So which party do you prefer to work with? The DemoCommunist Party or the RepubliCommunist Party? That is pretty much what it is coming down to.

And that's not about to change, as long as alternative candidates entertain the pipe-dream that they can win in a third party. Dick happens if you aren't elected.
 

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
43,602
Reaction score
26,255
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Carl said:
And that's not about to change, as long as alternative candidates entertain the pipe-dream that they can win in a third party. Dick happens if you aren't elected.

Cannot win a presidency right now, but Libertarians can pick up a few seats in Congress. Small steps. If you are willing to stay with the status quo, however, you get the government you deserve.
 

Carl

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
159
Reaction score
0
Location
Lindenhurst, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
danarhea said:
Cannot win a presidency right now, but Libertarians can pick up a few seats in Congress. Small steps. If you are willing to stay with the status quo, however, you get the government you deserve.

Heh heh, comforting rhetoric. There comes a point, though, where one has to accept the world as it actually exists. Short of that, it's just masturbation.
 

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
43,602
Reaction score
26,255
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Carl said:
Heh heh, comforting rhetoric. There comes a point, though, where one has to accept the world as it actually exists. Short of that, it's just masturbation.

You can call it masturbation if you wish, or you can call it tilting at windmills. However, I call it not being a whore to either Democrats or Republicans.

Better dead than Red :)
 

Carl

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
159
Reaction score
0
Location
Lindenhurst, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
danarhea said:
Better dead than Red :)

Fair enough my friend. I just wish guys like Badnarik were within a mainstream party. I just don't see any third-party going anywhere, whether that's right or wrong.
 

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
43,602
Reaction score
26,255
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Carl said:
Fair enough my friend. I just wish guys like Badnarik were within a mainstream party. I just don't see any third-party going anywhere, whether that's right or wrong.

We would be if the party in question was run by Conservatives. It is not, and we do not intend to support donkeys in elephant suits.

However, the Neocon parasites are losing control of the GOP. Let me see what choices will be available in the Republican primary in 2008, then I may reevaluate my position.

BTW, what do you think of Tom McClintock?
 

Carl

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
159
Reaction score
0
Location
Lindenhurst, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
danarhea said:
BTW, what do you think of Tom McClintock?

Mixed bag. I'm not sure that he thinks education should be completely devolved to the private sector, and he has some ideas that teachers should be earning huge salaries in the six figure range. I'm of the mind that the market should determine that.

I must confess I don't know a great deal about him specifically, so I could be off base.
 

taxedout

NONE
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
949
Reaction score
3
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Carl,


I just don't see working within the two parties as being a solution.
Why do we need a new contract with america ?
What happened to the first one ?
What happened when the repubs had the house, senate and presidency ?
They were too busy trying to appease liberals who refuse to be appeased, a completely futile exercise. Instead of conservative change, we have gained more spending, more debt, more beaurocracy and federalization, a scam of a tax break, trade agreements(aka the transfere of wealth outside of the US),
enriching of the central and world banks, devaluation of the dollar, a likely north american alliance in the near future, with our very own version of the euro, and a rapidly disappearing middle class. Marx would be proud.

When will the renewed contract be completed, after Hillary is elected ?

I'm sorry, the republicans do not support my views. They are not constituionalists and they are not conservative. They are no different than the Democrats. They are methodically redistributing the wealth of the middle class to the new world order. They are dancing like marrionettes, beholden to the whims of the CFR. Soon we will all be serfs to the Rockefellers, Rothschilds and Rhodists of the world. Paul Warburg, Morgan, Aldrich, and House will have won.
 

Carl

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
159
Reaction score
0
Location
Lindenhurst, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
taxedout said:
They are dancing like marrionettes, beholden to the whims of the CFR. Soon we will all be serfs to the Rockefellers, Rothschilds and Rhodists of the world. Paul Warburg, Morgan, Aldrich, and House will have won.

This all could be true, but the only way anyone with a different plan is going to get elected is within those two parties. It's just not realistic to strive for third-party victory. The chances of success are vanishingly remote.
 

taxedout

NONE
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
949
Reaction score
3
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Carl said:
This all could be true, but the only way anyone with a different plan is going to get elected is within those two parties. It's just not realistic to strive for third-party victory. The chances of success are vanishingly remote.


Now I'm really depressed, because the chances of someone with a different plan getting elected from within the two parties is equally remote.

I do appreciate your conservatism, and the exchange of ideas though.



Please,don't take offense if I continue my attempts to sway you to the light side. I kind of feel it my duty.
Use the force Luke .............:smile:
 

Carl

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
159
Reaction score
0
Location
Lindenhurst, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
taxedout said:
Use the force Luke .............:smile:

I assure you my friend, I shut down my targetting computer ages ago!
 
Top Bottom