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Common Core played a large role in my moving to Texas

Carjosse

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I think you need to re-evaluate your priorities if you moved to Texas because of common core.
 

Fiddytree

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Conservatives use Common Core as a prism for their pre-existing political views. Because a number of them had soured on government-led education reform once a Democrat got into office, they have once again led the calls against "federal overreach," not really knowing much about education reforms generally, let alone the specifics of each.

That hasn't stopped liberals from doing the same. While conservative education reformers generally loathe national anything, but like accountability, liberals love national anything, but loathe anything that stinks of accountability and that which doesn't present teaching as some untouchable art. As a result they pilloried it as corporatism, which is really just a short-cut to their antagonism for corporations in general. They get ill at the notion of hearing education lingo change from service sector bureaucracy-speak to business-speak. Instead of the notion that a student and family were "clients" (a common term in the state-led human service industry), families and students were now seen as "consumers." This makes the teacher unions shriek in horror in itself.

Common Core is an ineffective reform that was pursued in the hopes of someday getting at a bigger reform: curricular reform. It hasn't done so. It, in itself, plays no significant role whatsoever in the quality of our education system. It is neither an enemy nor a friend. It is, on balance, meaningless.
 
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Hawkeye10

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Texas has been a big player in mandating bias as well as idiocy in our primary school textbooks over decades. It would take a lot of good work for them to be fairly judged to be overall a positive for education.
 

Mach

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Opposition to common core is so interesting. It originated with private philanthropic reform to start measurement of public/government run education, that has been resistant to reform and measurement for decades. They had numerous high profile CEOs supporting it, their interest...to get ****ing education employees.

Democrats fought it tooth and nail because its anti-teachers union. Measurement that makes it harder to fudge our results? No way!
Republicans strangely enough fought it because it was "big government telling students how to learn"

As usual, while I find the Democrat position entirely wrong and unethical...but it makes sense from a political standpoint (no changes! very conservative of them...). The conservative position, I have no idea what it means. Government has been running educaiton for years, this was the very first step in reform from OUTSIDE government...why the backlash... Change is hard, especially for the old guard.
 

Fiddytree

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Democrats fought it tooth and nail because its anti-teachers union. Measurement that makes it harder to fudge our results? No way!
Republicans strangely enough fought it because it was "big government telling students how to learn"

Common Core in itself are just standards that are not tied to testing or curriculum. That leaves policymakers the option to try to do so on either one account or both. So what policymakers, especially the Obama administration, did was tie its massive grants to the adoption of Common Core with a testing system that was supposed to be "aligned" to the standards. Furthermore, the tests themselves were supposed to be made "tougher" and with an incredibly emphasis on digital technologies. There was, nevertheless, leeway in what states were allowed to do, thus making the administration's initial goal of a NAEP-like environment unfulfilled. However, states were expected that the first year's testing (last year) would have a decline in testing scores precisely because they were, on the whole, tougher. However, what also happened was because there were two companies per state chosen to roll this out, you had some really interesting problems develop. One company would create the test (i.e. Smarter Balanced) and another would supply the technology.

A number of states had testing woes because of technological problems. In my state, for instance, schools spent a great deal of time prepping students to take the test, sometimes weeks in advance. This wasn't a show up and take the test thing. That's an incredibly counterproductive approach, because students lose instructional time in order to fulfill a requirement that checks to see where the student body is at in its learning. Furthermore, when students were supposed to take the test, they could not log into the system quickly. It was very common for half-hour waits to occur. An elementary school administrator said this to me: if you think that's bad, just imagine what it's like having a young kid with ADHD waiting 25 minutes just to get into the system, let alone take a section of the exam. It gets better though. The accommodations section, which is made available to students with disabilities taking the examination, had enormous issues. For one thing, one of the most common accommodations is oral recitation of the question and its potential answers (if a multiple choice question). The computer examination had a voice system, which I was genuinely curious about one year beforehand and tried to ask detailed questions about it to no avail. I knew there could be an issue if the company skimped out on financial resources or even doing thorough work. It turns out that the recitation had a problem that a lot of text-to-speech software programs have: it's too robotic and will screw up pronunciation big time. They had to just kill off that accommodation entirely. There were a number of issues like that that plagued schools. The only test that went without a hitch was the alternative assessment that is only given to 1-2% of the students with disabilities population.

All of this added fuel to the political fire.
 
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ludin

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Conservatives use Common Core as a prism for their pre-existing political views. Because a number of them had soured on government-led education reform once a Democrat got into office, they have once again led the calls against "federal overreach," not really knowing much about education reforms generally, let alone the specifics of each.

That hasn't stopped liberals from doing the same. While conservative education reformers generally loathe national anything, but like accountability, liberals love national anything, but loathe anything that stinks of accountability and that which doesn't present teaching as some untouchable art. As a result they pilloried it as corporatism, which is really just a short-cut to their antagonism for corporations in general. They get ill at the notion of hearing education lingo change from service sector bureaucracy-speak to business-speak. Instead of the notion that a student and family were "clients" (a common term in the state-led human service industry), families and students were now seen as "consumers." This makes the teacher unions shriek in horror in itself.

Common Core is an ineffective reform that was pursued in the hopes of someday getting at a bigger reform: curricular reform. It hasn't done so. It, in itself, plays no significant role whatsoever in the quality of our education system. It is neither an enemy nor a friend. It is, on balance, meaningless.

common core is the ultimate failure of government attempting to control something.
I have to deal with this BS on a daily basis. the instructions are non-existent.
the questions are vague with abstract methods of figuring it out.

that is why you end up with this stupidity.

Child's Math Problem About Pizza Is Making Us So Confused! | 97.3fm - Brisbane's widest variety of music from the '80s to now

that is just 1 question out of dozens that I have had to mess with when it comes to common core.
my daughter gets so frustrated over it as well.

the kid's answer was technically correct given the question. Marty's pizza was simply bigger.
 

ludin

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Opposition to common core is so interesting. It originated with private philanthropic reform to start measurement of public/government run education, that has been resistant to reform and measurement for decades. They had numerous high profile CEOs supporting it, their interest...to get ****ing education employees.

Democrats fought it tooth and nail because its anti-teachers union. Measurement that makes it harder to fudge our results? No way!
Republicans strangely enough fought it because it was "big government telling students how to learn"

As usual, while I find the Democrat position entirely wrong and unethical...but it makes sense from a political standpoint (no changes! very conservative of them...). The conservative position, I have no idea what it means. Government has been running educaiton for years, this was the very first step in reform from OUTSIDE government...why the backlash... Change is hard, especially for the old guard.

Common core is the largest lesson in how not to learn I have ever seen. you want to turn kids off to learning? put them in common core.
teach them to not understand what they are supposed to do or learn basics.

evidently no one proof read the books before they put them out there.
 

Fiddytree

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common core is the ultimate failure of government attempting to control something.
I have to deal with this BS on a daily basis. the instructions are non-existent.
the questions are vague with abstract methods of figuring it out.

that is why you end up with this stupidity.

Child's Math Problem About Pizza Is Making Us So Confused! | 97.3fm - Brisbane's widest variety of music from the '80s to now

that is just 1 question out of dozens that I have had to mess with when it comes to common core.
my daughter gets so frustrated over it as well.

the kid's answer was technically correct given the question. Marty's pizza was simply bigger.

That's the fault of curriculum selected by states and schoolboards, not the standards.
 

ludin

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That's the fault of curriculum selected by states and schoolboards, not the standards.

no those are the standards. the book clearly says common core math on them.
 

Carjosse

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no those are the standards. the book clearly says common core math on them.

I think you are getting confused between curriculum and standards. Standards have nothing to do with specific questions all they do is set a minimum standard that must be met and the questions and the curriculum itself are solely the responsibility of the state or the school board as it is their job to create a curriculum around the standards.
 

Captain America

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Texas has been a big player in mandating bias as well as idiocy in our primary school textbooks over decades. It would take a lot of good work for them to be fairly judged to be overall a positive for education.

Hawkeye, let's mark this day on our calendar. I agree with you 100%.

Cheers.
 

ludin

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I think you are getting confused between curriculum and standards. Standards have nothing to do with specific questions all they do is set a minimum standard that must be met and the questions and the curriculum itself are solely the responsibility of the state or the school board as it is their job to create a curriculum around the standards.

again I will point to the math book that squarely says common core on the front of it.
 

Carjosse

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again I will point to the math book that squarely says common core on the front of it.

That means nothing, the actual common core would read like a legal document because that is what it essentially is. They probably called it common core because it is the questions they made to try and abide by common core standards, the people writing textbook questions are not exactly the most creative people in the world. If you have a problem with their attempt contact your state or school board.
 

Fiddytree

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again I will point to the math book that squarely says common core on the front of it.

Standards are largely vague suggestions about what ought to be covered, but standards do not tell you how to do it. That's where curriculum and your individual instructors come in. What goes on in the classroom is often so removed from content standards that you more or less end up wondering what all the fuss is about. When I am, for instance, creating a history lesson plan, I'm not looking at the content standards. The content standards in that subject (which Common Core doesn't have, by the way. They only discuss language.) are so vague that it tells me "hey, you might want to talk about the American Civil War." Well, chances are I was going to do that anyway, because how could you not? But it doesn't really nail down what I need to talk about in that war other than the instructor finding some equally vague references to slavery, states rights, and so on. That's if you're lucky. It won't tell me that I will thus need to have students write an essay on Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation. Chances are my state's standards make little to no references to that document in the first place, let alone how I am supposed to teach it. That's often what it's like staring at the Common Core standards in any given subject.

Furthermore, given that Common Core was an excellent name and given that it was touted as this really innovative reform (which was a large overstatement), Common Core also became an ad hoc brand. If you were creating curricular materials in the hopes of becoming adopted by states across the country, you just needed to slap the Common Core name on it to say, essentially, "hey this package works with this." This is no massive feat when you think about it, given that many individual states evaluating their own standards and substandards differed maybe 30-30-30 (30% Common Core being 'better', 30% Common Core being 'worse', 30% Common Core being equal to existing standards) each way on "rigor" or "substance" to their pre-existing content standards in comparison to Common Core. A lot of that measurement was subjective, and again, often beside the point about what actually goes on in the classroom. The materials companies produced could have any methodology they wanted, but all could claim to be "Common Core compliant." This is how you could have more traditional mathematics texts labeled as Common Core compliant and then also have the New Math methodology also claim to be "Common Core Compliant."
 
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Fiddytree

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Lastly, not all texts are created equal. This should surprise no one. If you read a biography and are familiar with some other biographies on the person you're reading about, you know that some biographies are superior in their writing style or perhaps thoroughness, despite covering much of the same ground or having the same overall approach. The same applies with textbooks and other educational packaging. None of this is directly, and I argue, indirectly an indictment on Common Core itself.
 

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people can try to defends this POS but they simply can't. the reason schools are dropping is because parents and everyone else is up in arms.
kids are confused and parents are frustrated because of the materials.

I frankly canned what the books said and told my daughter how to do it.
 

Fiddytree

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people can try to defends this POS but they simply can't. the reason schools are dropping is because parents and everyone else is up in arms.
kids are confused and parents are frustrated because of the materials.

I frankly canned what the books said and told my daughter how to do it.

I don't defend it so much as to correct nonsense from people who don't know what they are talking about.
 

ludin

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I don't defend it so much as to correct nonsense from people who don't know what they are talking about.

I think I will go with the schools and teachers that says it is crap.
even the teachers at the school hate it.
 

roughdraft274

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common core is the ultimate failure of government attempting to control something.
I have to deal with this BS on a daily basis. the instructions are non-existent.
the questions are vague with abstract methods of figuring it out.

that is why you end up with this stupidity.

Child's Math Problem About Pizza Is Making Us So Confused! | 97.3fm - Brisbane's widest variety of music from the '80s to now

that is just 1 question out of dozens that I have had to mess with when it comes to common core.
my daughter gets so frustrated over it as well.

the kid's answer was technically correct given the question. Marty's pizza was simply bigger.

That's just a poorly worded question. The confusion of it has nothing to do with common core. Seriously, lol.
 

justabubba

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common core is the ultimate failure of government attempting to control something.
I have to deal with this BS on a daily basis. the instructions are non-existent.
the questions are vague with abstract methods of figuring it out.

that is why you end up with this stupidity.

Child's Math Problem About Pizza Is Making Us So Confused! | 97.3fm - Brisbane's widest variety of music from the '80s to now

that is just 1 question out of dozens that I have had to mess with when it comes to common core.
my daughter gets so frustrated over it as well.

the kid's answer was technically correct given the question. Marty's pizza was simply bigger.

that was a great question for a kid to ponder
not necessarily a easy one

which i believe identifies which side of the common core issue one is on
one wants simple
the other seeks smart

"make things as simple as possible, but not simpler"
those opposed to common core ignore Einstein's admonition and insist on making their kids' study simpler
 

justabubba

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people can try to defends this POS but they simply can't. the reason schools are dropping is because parents and everyone else is up in arms.
kids are confused and parents are frustrated because of the materials.

I frankly canned what the books said and told my daughter how to do it.

and what did that teach her?
 

ludin

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that was a great question for a kid to ponder
not necessarily a easy one

which i believe identifies which side of the common core issue one is on
one wants simple
the other seeks smart

"make things as simple as possible, but not simpler"
those opposed to common core ignore Einstein's admonition and insist on making their kids' study simpler

the problem is the kid wrote what a valid response to the question should be. The one guy's pizza was bigger that is how he ate more.
the teacher marked it wrong and said no that isn't possible as 4/6 is smaller than 5/6's.

the kids answer was correct based on the lack of information in the question.
the teacher was making an assumption that both pizza's were the same size.

the question was flawed in not providing enough information and on top of that hitting and giving that
the answer it gave was correct.

it doesn't have to be simpler but it has to contain enough information that the child can learn and understand the problem.
not put down a correct response and then get told it is wrong.
 

justabubba

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how to do it correctly and understand the answer.
she went from getting a C in math to a B.

thanks to her dad doing her homework


she got the C. you received the B ... for elementary math
 
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