• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Coincidence or Attack on Christianity

easyt65

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
2,061
Reaction score
6
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
6 churches in Alabama are being reported as having been burned last night/this morning. Officials are trying to determine if they are arson, connected, or just a coincidence. What do you think?
 

Upstart

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
I think that it's just a build-up of all the hate for Christians that has been made from the media and Hollywood.
 

easyt65

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
2,061
Reaction score
6
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
4 More/new churches Burned in Alabama - 9 Total

The attacks on Christianity and the Church continues in Alabama - no suspects, no solid leads.

(I wonder if they will consider THIS to be a 'hate' crime?!)
 

Upstart

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
It is interesting to note that the persecution of Christianity is greater now than ever before.
 

Engimo

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
1,042
Reaction score
0
Location
New York
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Upstart said:
It is interesting to note that the persecution of Christianity is greater now than ever before.
Even more interesting is how entirely untrue this statement is! :prof
 

Upstart

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
It is especially bad in the Middle East, where the Muslims literely crucify Christians.
 

easyt65

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
2,061
Reaction score
6
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Engimo said:
Even more interesting is how entirely untrue this statement is! :prof
Perspective - all perspective.

For instance, it is the worst it has ever been HERE in the states, as we have never had in the past the political attack on Christianity that we have faced the last few years.

It all started when that woman began the 'No prayer In School' Scam. She began that to start a movement that would raise a lot of money - she never cared if it caught on or not. Shortly after it began and millions were raised 'for the coming battle', she skipped out with all the money. those with an actual agenda pushed forward and actually got the stupid thing passed. Side Note: the woman was later found murdered - she was killed by her accomplice who took the money for himself! Justice?! :cool:

That is about the time the Politically Correct movement and the anti-Christian Coalition used the momentum of this bogus start to keep on rolling.

The rise of the muslim Extremists spreading across the planet, beheading and bombing Christians and Non-Muslims in the name of a prophet who taught peace and love can be interpreted/seen in one's perspective as 'more than ever before'.

All I know is Christianity, not religeon, is under attack!
 

128shot

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
1,258
Reaction score
31
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
easyt65 said:
Perspective - all perspective.

For instance, it is the worst it has ever been HERE in the states, as we have never had in the past the political attack on Christianity that we have faced the last few years.

It all started when that woman began the 'No prayer In School' Scam. She began that to start a movement that would raise a lot of money - she never cared if it caught on or not. Shortly after it began and millions were raised 'for the coming battle', she skipped out with all the money. those with an actual agenda pushed forward and actually got the stupid thing passed. Side Note: the woman was later found murdered - she was killed by her accomplice who took the money for himself! Justice?! :cool:

That is about the time the Politically Correct movement and the anti-Christian Coalition used the momentum of this bogus start to keep on rolling.

The rise of the muslim Extremists spreading across the planet, beheading and bombing Christians and Non-Muslims in the name of a prophet who taught peace and love can be interpreted/seen in one's perspective as 'more than ever before'.

All I know is Christianity, not religeon, is under attack!

thats crap.


Religion should be out of school, out of gov. Secularism is what our society is principled on.


Islam is under more attack, under more twisting, and under more spin than any other religon on earth (its a long complex story..)
 
T

teenonfire4him77

Actually its based on CHristian principals...but then turned to Secularism

And I don't believe it is an attack on Christianity, but they are most likely hate crimes.
They were all black Baptist churchs.
They were all in Alabama.
Corretta Scott King lived in Montgomery, Alabama. (Montgomery Bus boycott...the first nationally known effert in the fight for civil rights for people of all colors)
This all happend in the days surronding her death.
Connections anyone?
 

justone

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
3,379
Reaction score
161
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Engimo said:
Even more interesting is how entirely untrue this statement is! :prof
I have not read too much over here, but you are right. I call myself a Christian and feel somewhat hurt when others calling themself Christian are out of any straight line. I appreciate you not saying more than you said, and using soft words.
 

Upstart

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
128shot said:
thats crap.


Religion should be out of school, out of gov. Secularism is what our society is principled on.


Islam is under more attack, under more twisting, and under more spin than any other religon on earth (its a long complex story..)
O really? Our Founding Fathers didn't seem to think so.
 

Engimo

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
1,042
Reaction score
0
Location
New York
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Upstart said:
O really? Our Founding Fathers didn't seem to think so.
1. That's not true.
2. Who gives a ****?

We live in a society fundamentally different from the one that was around during the time of the founding fathers. Even if they wanted a religious nation (which is certainly not the case [Establishment Clause, anyone?]), that doesn't mean that it's the right thing to have now.
 

128shot

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
1,258
Reaction score
31
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Upstart said:
O really? Our Founding Fathers didn't seem to think so.

Yes, because we all know Ben Franklin editing the consitution to disclude "god given rights" into "rights of man" is a myth.


Or how Jefferson wasn't a fan of organized religion...real myth right?
 

MrFungus420

Legend in my own mind!
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
2,018
Reaction score
345
Location
Midland, MI
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
teenonfire4him77 said:
Actually its based on CHristian principals...but then turned to Secularism
Are you familiar with the Constitution? It is clearly secular. The guarantee of freedom of religion even goes directly against the 1st Comandment.
 

Upstart

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Engimo said:
1. That's not true.
2. Who gives a ****?

We live in a society fundamentally different from the one that was around during the time of the founding fathers. Even if they wanted a religious nation (which is certainly not the case [Establishment Clause, anyone?]), that doesn't mean that it's the right thing to have now.
Your statement is completely faulty. For one thing, they asked God for guidance, their meetings were opened with prayer, and they quoted Scripture with their reasons for political actions.

And for your second statement, half the nation. Remember, the reason Bush was re-elected by a 54% was from all of the Christians coming out of the wood work.
 

Upstart

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
MrFungus420 said:
Are you familiar with the Constitution? It is clearly secular. The guarantee of freedom of religion even goes directly against the 1st Comandment.
The Commandments are given to the followers of God. Not to a nation that is composed of many different religions.

And to the popular statement:"Don't impose your morals on me!", I say this, "Don't impose your immorals on me!"
 
Last edited:

Engimo

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
1,042
Reaction score
0
Location
New York
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Upstart said:
Your statement is completely faulty. For one thing, they asked God for guidance, their meetings were opened with prayer, and they quoted Scripture with their reasons for political actions.
Irrelevant. They knew that they had to separate their personal religious beliefs from the country's laws, which is why the Establishment Clause exists.

And for your second statement, half the nation. Remember, the reason Bush was re-elected by a 54% was from all of the Christians coming out of the wood work.
No, I'm saying that it doesn't matter what the founding fathers wanted the country to be like. This is the same group of people that allowed slavery, isn't it? Why do we treat them as if their intentions are omnipotently relevant?
 

FluffyNinja

All Warm and Fuzzy
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2006
Messages
4,831
Reaction score
1,625
Location
Miss-uh-Sippie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Engimo said:
Irrelevant. They knew that they had to separate their personal religious beliefs from the country's laws, which is why the Establishment Clause exists.



No, I'm saying that it doesn't matter what the founding fathers wanted the country to be like. This is the same group of people that allowed slavery, isn't it? Why do we treat them as if their intentions are omnipotently relevant?
Go back and read some REAL HISTORY. This is absolutely NOT the reason the Establishment Clause was added. If you go back and read some of the personal letters of James Madison, John Adams or Thomas Jefferson you will see that it was added out of fear that the Federal Government may attempt to authorize a "NATIONAL RELIGION" as was present under the English crown. You should know that "Separation of Church and State" is a phrase that is not present in the wording of the Constitution. The clause was obviously added to protect freedom of choice in religion.

Also, if you do a bit more research, you'll find that the Founding Fathers were INDIVIDUALS and cannot be generalized as ONE group who ALL shared the same beliefs. Many of the founding Fathers, such as Washington, Jefferson and Adams struggled with the paradox of creating a "free" nation which allowed slavery. Many of the Founding Fathers were actually in favor of abolishing it.

I would suggest reading, American Slavery, American Freedom, by Edmund S. Morgan, in order to gain some insight into the minds of the Founding Fathers and their struggle with this issue.
 

MrFungus420

Legend in my own mind!
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
2,018
Reaction score
345
Location
Midland, MI
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Upstart said:
The Commandments are given to the followers of God. Not to a nation that is composed of many different religions.
Absolutely irrelevent. I was making a comment in response to a claim that our country was based on Christian principles.

Upstart said:
And to the popular statement:"Don't impose your morals on me!", I say this, "Don't impose your immorals on me!"
Tell me, how would someone impose their "immorals" on you?

Some of the things that I'm in favour of with which you may disagree: legalizing drugs, legalizing prostitution, giving gays equal rights and a woman's choice in the matter of abortion. Now, in all of these cases, if my opinion on them were law, it would not be imposing anything on you, you would still have the choice to live as you choose. Now, if we assume that you are opposed to all of those things, and your opinions on them are law, then you are the one making the imposition on others. The difference is in giving people a choice versus forcing them to follow your rules.
 

Upstart

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Engimo said:
Irrelevant. They knew that they had to separate their personal religious beliefs from the country's laws, which is why the Establishment Clause exists.



No, I'm saying that it doesn't matter what the founding fathers wanted the country to be like. This is the same group of people that allowed slavery, isn't it? Why do we treat them as if their intentions are omnipotently relevant?
The biggest abolitionists were Christians.
 

Upstart

Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
92
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
MrFungus420 said:
Absolutely irrelevent. I was making a comment in response to a claim that our country was based on Christian principles.



Tell me, how would someone impose their "immorals" on you?

Some of the things that I'm in favour of with which you may disagree: legalizing drugs, legalizing prostitution, giving gays equal rights and a woman's choice in the matter of abortion. Now, in all of these cases, if my opinion on them were law, it would not be imposing anything on you, you would still have the choice to live as you choose. Now, if we assume that you are opposed to all of those things, and your opinions on them are law, then you are the one making the imposition on others. The difference is in giving people a choice versus forcing them to follow your rules.
Have you ever seen what happens when a perfectly good Christian home sends a perfectly good kid to the public school? Pretty soon, you can't tell the kid from any other in that school.

When the people and government of a nation are warped, the entire population is effected. Including those that are against the evil. And not just the morals of the nation, the nation itself. I would like to quote a famous Frenchman by the name of De Tocqueville who came to visit America in the colonial period. His purpose was to decover why America was a success while France was not. "America is great because America is good. When America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great."
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
169
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Tell me, how would someone impose their "immorals" on you?

hmmm...lets see here. Early 1500's: Spanish Conquest on there concept of the "New" World. If you did not convert to Catholicism, you were put to death. Basically, you have to except and follow our lifestyle, or you die.
 

MrFungus420

Legend in my own mind!
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
2,018
Reaction score
345
Location
Midland, MI
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
i believe in tranquility said:
hmmm...lets see here. Early 1500's: Spanish Conquest on there concept of the "New" World. If you did not convert to Catholicism, you were put to death. Basically, you have to except and follow our lifestyle, or you die.
No, that was a case of them forcing their morals on others. They were trying to force others to follow that which they thought was moral. They were trying to save the souls of those that they tortured and killed.
 
Top Bottom