Coalition Building By The Teachers Unions

[Albert Di Salvo]

Here's an interesting article from the WSJ about the expansion of political power by the teachers unions.

Teachers Unions Give Broadly - WSJ.com

 

[TheDemSocialist]

I dont see a problem here as long as they stay out of SUPER PACS like one union is doing. But the big difference is that they make their contributions public and not secret.

 

[Boo Radley]

While I think ALL money should be taken out of politics, what makes one OK and another evil? Why are unions more evil than business?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

While I think ALL money should be taken out of politics, what makes one OK and another evil? Why are unions more evil than business?

Because most of them are interested in not profit they are interested in social justice, worker issues, standard of living, etc. Im not saying they have the right to purchase our elections and spend as much money as possible i believe that there should be a limit on all money spent in an election.

 

[Albert Di Salvo]

"...nderstanding the role of the public sector unions in political donations is key to understanding the functioning of the modern American Left. The deep pockets of teachers unions and other public sector unions provide the financial infrastructure that keeps the Left in business.

It’s the ultimate political machine. Teachers’ unions lobby elected officials to get more money and benefits for their members. The voting clout that the unions have in state and local politics makes it easy for politicians to give them what they want—even if it is more than the city can actually afford. As a result, many cities are now struggling with high pension promises that they are in no position to keep. Many cities are now hoping to scale some of these pensions back, but the union machine continues to fight such measures even as the pensions become unsustainable. Many find that the unions are just too powerful to fight..."

The Largest Political Machine | Via Meadia

 

[Boo Radley]

Albert, answer me. Teachers unions are far less effective than other groups pumping money into politics. Where's your outrage? And why do we not blame those we elect?

 

[Albert Di Salvo]

Albert, answer me. Teachers unions are far less effective than other groups pumping money into politics. Where's your outrage? And why do we not blame those we elect?

One must choose one's battles carefully.

The primary problem in America today is culture. All of the country's problems stem from a degraded culture including, but not limited to, America's economic malaise. There is only one way to change the culture on a long term basis. Revitalizing public education throughout the nation must come before all else.

In order to do that it is necessary to scrutinize the dynamics of existing public education in the country. If one does so one sees the iron grip of the status quo sucking the life out of young minds in order to maintain vested economic interests. Those interests have shown themselves to be incapable of reform.

 

[Boo Radley]

One must choose one's battles carefully.

The primary problem in America today is culture. All of the country's problems stem from a degraded culture including, but not limited to, America's economic malaise. There is only one way to change the culture on a long term basis. Revitalizing public education throughout the nation must come before all else.

In order to do that it is necessary to scrutinize the dynamics of existing public education in the country. If one does so one sees the iron grip of the status quo sucking the life out of young minds in order to maintain vested economic interests. Those interests have shown themselves to be incapable of reform.

What needs to be done culturally is not effected by unions. They play no real role in that.

But, slow down the and sharpen your vaguness and explain what you see needing to be done. Be specific.

 

[cpwill]

In my state (Alabama) the teachers union created an artificial group and used it to launch a smear campaign inside of the Republican gubernatorial primary to destroy a candidate who wanted to reform our educational system by (hilariously) accusing him of "supporting Barack Obama's Federal Takeover of Schools".


Ask any governor who has tried to reform education about the power of teachers unions. They are no joke.

 

[Boo Radley]

In my state (Alabama) the teachers union created an artificial group and used it to launch a smear campaign inside of the Republican gubernatorial primary to destroy a candidate who wanted to reform our educational system by (hilariously) accusing him of "supporting Barack Obama's Federal Takeover of Schools".


Ask any governor who has tried to reform education about the power of teachers unions. They are no joke.

So, government is weak, unions strong. Voters weak and helpless, union strong. If you're correct, everyone better join a union as they are the only one's powerful enought to do anything. Everything else is just weak and useless. :coffeepap

 

[Darroll]

Teachers have to have unions here as the school district treats the teachers so bad that can’t get along without a union. (in Oregon)

They even put the retarded children in the classroom for the teachers to take care of.

 

[Mach]

Teachers have to have unions here as the school district treats the teachers so bad that can’t get along without a union. (in Oregon)
They even put the retarded children in the classroom for the teachers to take care of.

Good point, so let's assume that is true.
Do teachers unions fix the problem with bad school districts, or does it leave the bad school districts and just give teachers some immunity to the bad district?

Aha. That's like being paid off. If you have a corrupt city government, and they keep taking 10% of everyones profits, you might as a restaurant union gather together and negiotate that they take 5%, in return for your support. You just ****ed everyone else, and you just added support to the corrupt government you orginally opposed (as bad).

You're telling me such a payoff is good? It's so close to criminal it's sad. It not only doesn't solve the original issue, it makes it harder to see it, and fix it. It also adds other problems, namely the conflict of interest that is so obvious, having inflated salary, benefits, and job stability, at the cost of having worse public educaiton, and a damaged culture of education in the U.S. in general (even for areas that don't have public unions, they are impacted by the platform of the public teachers uninons).

You just evidenced, as we all know, that public teachers unions do not fix the system, they just add other broken parts, that happen to work in teachers favor, to the system.

 

[Helix]

money is speech, and teachers unions are people.

 

[Boo Radley]

Good point, so let's assume that is true.
Do teachers unions fix the problem with bad school districts, or does it leave the bad school districts and just give teachers some immunity to the bad district?

Aha. That's like being paid off. If you have a corrupt city government, and they keep taking 10% of everyones profits, you might as a restaurant union gather together and negiotate that they take 5%, in return for your support. You just ****ed everyone else, and you just added support to the corrupt government you orginally opposed (as bad).

You're telling me such a payoff is good? It's so close to criminal it's sad. It not only doesn't solve the original issue, it makes it harder to see it, and fix it. It also adds other problems, namely the conflict of interest that is so obvious, having inflated salary, benefits, and job stability, at the cost of having worse public educaiton, and a damaged culture of education in the U.S. in general (even for areas that don't have public unions, they are impacted by the platform of the public teachers uninons).

You just evidenced, as we all know, that public teachers unions do not fix the system, they just add other broken parts, that happen to work in teachers favor, to the system.

Unions make neither law nor policy. This is fundamental and must be understood. They negotiate and represent.

 

[haymarket]

Good point, so let's assume that is true.
Do teachers unions fix the problem with bad school districts, or does it leave the bad school districts and just give teachers some immunity to the bad district?

Aha. That's like being paid off. If you have a corrupt city government, and they keep taking 10% of everyones profits, you might as a restaurant union gather together and negiotate that they take 5%, in return for your support. You just ****ed everyone else, and you just added support to the corrupt government you orginally opposed (as bad).

You're telling me such a payoff is good? It's so close to criminal it's sad. It not only doesn't solve the original issue, it makes it harder to see it, and fix it. It also adds other problems, namely the conflict of interest that is so obvious, having inflated salary, benefits, and job stability, at the cost of having worse public educaiton, and a damaged culture of education in the U.S. in general (even for areas that don't have public unions, they are impacted by the platform of the public teachers uninons).

You just evidenced, as we all know, that public teachers unions do not fix the system, they just add other broken parts, that happen to work in teachers favor, to the system.

When I read stuff like this from somebody far outside the actual education system, I have to shake my head and attribute it to right wing think tanks polluting our body politic with garbage.

As a union official, I went to many state and national teacher union conventions and conferences. The subject of reform was always a prominent one and there were some conventions in the early 2000's where the message was front and center and dominated the convention. The AFT had a national convention in Las Vegas around that time - 2002 or so and still have a T shirt which proclaims in large letters BUILDING BETTER SCHOOLS - ITS UNION WORK. That was the convention theme and for three days that was the focus.

Sadly, when we came back to our local districts, the administration wants you to shut up and stay "out of their business". Boards of Ed want unions to only be concerned with wages, benefits, hours and working conditions. They do NOT want to be told how to run their districts in the way of reform.

I wish I had just minimum wage for all the time I put in on countless panels, committees, conferences, working groups and other gatherings which tried to come up with positive suggestions to reform education only to have them crushed and flushed by administration.

 

[Mach]

Unions make neither law nor policy. This is fundamental and must be understood. They negotiate and represent.

Who claimed they do Boo? If no one, then your response is logically irrelevant.

Unions influence law and policy is what is claimed, and it's factually correct and fundamental to the discussion. Why so dishonest Boo?

 

[Mach]

a T shirt which proclaims in large letters BUILDING BETTER SCHOOLS - ITS UNION WORK. That was the convention theme and for three days that was the focus.

Sure, sure, a T-shirt that says you want to reform. Meanwhile, tenure, salary, and defined benefits plans in exchange. A T-shirt seems a trivial trade. I'll give you the T-shirt back for no tenure, 401K, and market-driven compensation. I spent $10K on public education this year and I'll have a to show for it is this crummy T-shirt that I don't even have, Haymarket has it. You guys really pulled out all the stops for teaching the next generation!

I wish I had just minimum wage for all the time I put in on countless panels, committees, conferences, working groups and other gatherings which tried to come up with positive suggestions to reform education only to have them crushed and flushed by administration.

Put tenure, defined benefits, and salary on the table, I suspect they'd be willing to negotiate. Funny how that works.
They paid you off by letting you have your benefits/pay, you paid them off by not forcing them to change, and by being willing to go along. And that's a good thing!?!

The sad fact is you spent the better part of your working career (age-wise, not being discrimnatory), in a system that you appear to want me to believe you felt was terribly broken. But not when it comes to political clout and compesnation/security! And even though the Unions you were a part of were and are able to greatly differentiate themselves in terms of money in your pocket comapred to the rest of the market, it was entirely unable to change anything else about the system, whcih is arguable worse than the rest of the market.

So in a list of potential things they could fix:

1. reform A
2. reform B
3. reform C
4. reform D
5. Teacher Job security (none <---> tenure)
6. Teacher Retirement (none--401k---defined benefits---public defined benefits)
7. Teacher Salary

They were unable to get anything drastic done on the things that improve the system, that help the parents and students...but they hit ****ING HOME RUNS ON JOB SECURITY, RETIREMENT, AND SALARY (and more)? They couldn't get any of those reforms through, except when it was outrageously beneficial to the union members directly? They are so successful at it that it's front and center in any dicsussion of public education, it sticks out like a beacon in the dark when comapred to nearly every other industry, a shining example of organized effort leading to incredible results. But ONLY in areas of teacher compensation, and not on all the reforms that you paid some lip service to?

I can't make this stuff up Haymarket, I appreciate your real-life examples and candor.

 

[Boo Radley]

Who claimed they do Boo? If no one, then your response is logically irrelevant.

Unions influence law and policy is what is claimed, and it's factually correct and fundamental to the discussion. Why so dishonest Boo?

Influence? Nice vague word. A lot of folks and organizations influence. No one is excused from doing stupid just because they are influenced. To whine about one side of the table and say nothing about the other is doing what I claim you're doing.

 

[haymarket]

You know Mach, you remind me of an armchair athlete sitting on monday morning telling the actual players what they should have done. You never played the game and the only thing you know is what you see in the media and second hand.

here is one example of your outright stupidity and ignorance on this issue

Put tenure, defined benefits, and salary on the table, I suspect they'd be willing to negotiate. Funny how that works.

News bulletin for the ignorant outsider: salary and benefits are ALWAYS ON THE TABLE in contract negotiations. Always. As far as tenure goes, that is state law and is something beyond negotiations. If you were actually in this business you would know that.

And explain to all of us why teachers should trade salary or benefit for reform oriented suggestions to improve the district? Tell us what giving up salary has to do with a district enacting better policies which will benefit students?

Teachers should give up health insurance so that a school district adopts an attendance policy for students?

Teachers should give up salary so that a school district get rid of automatic social promotion?

That is absurd and simply ignorant. There is no relationship at all between those things.

You simply are just an empty barrel on this issue. You simply do not know what you are talking about.

It is as if you are in a discussion with other people who all played professional ball and you never even put on a jock strap. Its pathetic.