CNN Admits Mar-a-lago value

[JRTurner]

You're just frothing.

Actually, I prefer my froth in a caramel latte

I think you just prefer it any way you can get it

 

[BabaVoss]

Like most of what trump "owns" he may not own it outright. Could be quite leveraged, like many of his so-called assets.

 

[eohrnberger]

Actually, I prefer my froth in a caramel latte

I think you just prefer it any way you can get it

LOL. OK.

 

[Visbek]

I'm guessing you didn't actually watch or listen to the video. CNN put up a graphic of it being worth $240 million and that is also what the CNN host said herself. The guess only said "in the hundreds of millions". She gave no specific number. That was all CNN>

OMG ALERT THE COURTS!!!

Let's start by looking at the real claims, shall we?

Remember, the requirement of the SFCs is current value at time of filing, not any hypothetical value based on altering conditions.

In 2002, Trump signed a deed which gave up development rights on the property, in exchange for a tax break. He cannot use it or sell it as a residence; he can't subdivide it; he can't build on it; he can't tear anything down. It can only be used as a social club, into perpetuity.

In 2011 -- as in, 12 years ago -- the property was assessed by the county at $18 million. Trump claimed on forms that it was worth $426 million.

By 2021, the county assessed it at $27 million. Trump claimed on forms it was worth $612 million.

Both of Trump's claims were far in excess of residential comps.

Trump, by the way, was more than happy to pay a property tax rate based on $27 million.

And while we can certainly justify a difference between a property tax assessment and fair market value, that difference is not going to be 2,166%.

What was Team Trump's justification for this? They claimed they could breech the contract and get away with it in the courts at some future date. To put it mildly, this does not fly; again, current value, with all the encumbrances of the deed, are what is required for the SFCs. Basically, they were all but admitting that they committed fraud.

Meanwhile... In October 2023, Trump was publicly claiming Mar-A-Lago was worth "between a billion and a billion five."Even if it could be sold as a residence, that valuation is insane -- it would make it the most expensive private residence in the entire US by 400%.

Sorry, but either way, your complaint doesn't work. A real estate agent -- who forgot or does not know that MAL cannot be sold as a residence -- values it at $250 million, at a time when Trump is claiming it's worth up to $1.5 billion. And of course, you're latching onto a 12 year old assessment; no one said MAL was worth $18 million in 2024.

Seems like a rather Pyrrhic victory on your part. But hey, any port in a storm, eh?

 

[Opossum]

Sorry. Can't help you. The evidence is posted here in black and white and you got, "Nuh-uh!"

*sigh*...you're continuing to miss the point in that the claim was a misrepresentation, also known as a lie, to fabricate a case that a crime was committed.

 

[JRTurner]

*sigh*...you're continuing to miss the point in that the claim was a misrepresentation, also known as a lie, to fabricate a case that a crime was committed.

The crime was committed in 2014 when Mar a Lago was, actually, valued at 18 million.

Where is the lie?

 

[Airyaman]

But...but...but...it's only worth $18 million!

On paper that was all it was worth at the time of the fraud.

 

[Brusan]

*sigh*...you're continuing to miss the point in that the claim was a misrepresentation, also known as a lie, to fabricate a case that a crime was committed.

It's you that is missing the point. Trump on the one hand applied for and got a zoning restriction in order to use a much lower tax assessment. Those zoning restrictions are still in place for whomever buys it today - they cannot modify or otherwise make any substantial changes to that property at all and must buy it knowing those conditions.

It's not today's worth with whatever conditions are in place that is pertinent to the court filings, it's the conditions in place at time of alleged fraud and that was $18 M . What would you have the courts do? Use some hypothetical valuation based upon what properties were selling for at the time in the area? Properties with no such modification restrictions placed upon them by the owners themselves?

NO ONE is lying other than Trump himself due to having the property re-zoned to his liking to avoid a higher property tax bite, then turning around and claiming it's worth far more than that zoned value he himself requested to avail himself of a loan based upon the higher value. Jeeebus, even you must be able to acknowledge the duplicity in that nonsense. The DA is concerned with only the fraud that took place while those valuations were in place way back when and there's no doubt Trump was trying to have his cake and eat it too.

Next up; should the court agree the property valuation regardless of zoning restrictions be higher at the time - what figure would they decide upon? Some bit of fantasy pulled out of the air using what for it's basis?

Any potential developer is going to require all sorts of purchase conditions and the very first on the list would be conditional upon availability of permits, new soil analysis, recent survey, etc., etc.. What do you think any prospective purchaser is going to do when faced with the info he cannot do squat to change the historical footprint/appearance of the existent amenities? What do you think would be the cost (huge) to any developer applying for re-zoning to allow for any updating? Further would Trump himself have paid taxes on a property he estimates at 1.6 billion? Tell you what; were he seriously required to do that, he'd have been even more seriously in the red on that property than he has been for the entire time he's owned it.

He'd have been whining like a $2.00 garage sale leaf blower had he been forced to pay taxes on ANY amount of higher valuation that property attracted, FACT.

 

[daeler]

Really don't understand how this is so difficult.

One person sold a house.

One person said his house was worth more than it is on a loan application.

For those not understanding the law, misrepresenting value on a loan application is fraud, it even tells you this on the application.

What ever happened in the trial is secondary to understanding the difference between the two things. Lying on most applications is against the law.

 

[gbg3]

Nonsense.

It is nonsense! Many states, including FL, have assessment limitations. In states like FL, where sales prices can absolutely soar from time to time, the assessment value of a property can vary tremendously from the price a property can sell for if the property has been held for a number of years. Especially with sought after beach property in sought after locations. And the fact that it's a club doesn't necessarily diminish its value but could even increase its value. Furthermore, properties are rezoned ALL the time, should that be a desire of a subsequent owner.

 

[Callen]

It is nonsense! Many states, including FL, have assessment limitations. In states like FL, where sales prices can absolutely soar from time to time, the assessment value of a property can vary tremendously from the price a property can sell for if the property has been held for a number of years. Especially with sought after beach property in sought after locations. And the fact that it's a club doesn't necessarily diminish its value but could even increase its value. Furthermore, properties are rezoned ALL the time, should that be a desire of a subsequent owner.

Had he been truthful about the zoning and indicated the evaluation he was putting forward was based on a proposed future zoning changes he probable would not be in such hot water....but he lied. I know you folk are OK with misrepresenting property on legal financial documents but the courts aren't.

 

[gbg3]

Jeez, if someone did buy Mar-a-Lago, it looks as if it's quite the lucrative business! A future owner might not want to get it rezoned and might love the setup Trump has in place. I might argue the fact that it's already a functioning and very exclusive private club with existing members - might make it worth (even) significantly more than if it were simply zoned as a private home. I bet a half billion is not at all out of the question as to what it might sell for. It's quite the property in quite the location. 18 million, LOL!

How Much Does Mar A Lago Club Membership Cost? - Updated 2023 - ThePricer Media

Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump's opulent private club in Palm Beach, Florida, has long been shrouded in an air of exclusivity and luxury. With Trump now a former

www.thepricer.org

 

[Callen]

Jeez, if someone did buy Mar-a-Lago, it looks as if it's quite the lucrative business! A future owner might not want to get it rezoned and might love the setup Trump has in place. I might argue the fact that it's already a functioning and very exclusive private club with existing members - might make it worth (even) significantly more than if it were simply zoned as a private home. I bet a half billion is not at all out of the question as to what it might sell for. It's quite the property in quite the location. 18 million, LOL!

How Much Does Mar A Lago Club Membership Cost? - Updated 2023 - ThePricer Media

Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump's opulent private club in Palm Beach, Florida, has long been shrouded in an air of exclusivity and luxury. With Trump now a former

www.thepricer.org

...and had Trump sold it with that understanding he could get whatever he could get with no legal issues. That's not what happened though is it?

 

[JRTurner]

Jeez, if someone did buy Mar-a-Lago, it looks as if it's quite the lucrative business! A future owner might not want to get it rezoned and might love the setup Trump has in place. I might argue the fact that it's already a functioning and very exclusive private club with existing members - might make it worth (even) significantly more than if it were simply zoned as a private home. I bet a half billion is not at all out of the question as to what it might sell for. It's quite the property in quite the location. 18 million, LOL!

How Much Does Mar A Lago Club Membership Cost? - Updated 2023 - ThePricer Media

Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump's opulent private club in Palm Beach, Florida, has long been shrouded in an air of exclusivity and luxury. With Trump now a former

www.thepricer.org

18 million was 10 years ago.

Duh.

 

[Visbek]

It is nonsense! Many states, including FL, have assessment limitations.

Nope. That's not going to work. Florida has a property tax limit... on homesteads. Mar-A-Lago does not qualify.

In states like FL, where sales prices can absolutely soar from time to time...

Assessments are often below market value when the property hasn't been assessed recently. E.g. some NJ municipalities didn't update assessments for 25-30 years.

That isn't the case here. The county was assessing Mar-A-Lago every single year.

And again... In 2021, the county assessed it at $27 million. Trump claimed on forms it was worth $612 million -- by the way, far above residential comps. That's a 2,166% difference. There is no way that number is legit, given the restrictions (see below).

And again, he bleated out a few months ago that he thinks it's currently worth up to $1.5 billion. That's 400% higher than the most expensive private properties in the US.

And the fact that it's a club doesn't necessarily diminish its value but could even increase its value.

Nope, wrong, 100% wrong.

MAL is heavily restricted because it's a historic site. Over the years, Trump signed multiple agreements in exchange for tax breaks to permanently give up the rights to alter the property. He can't subdivide it, can't tear down buildings, can't construct new buildings, and can't turn it into a residence.

In fact, Trump's own argument in the case undermines your claim -- because the defense tried to justify the inflated value by claiming they based the value of the property not on current conditions (as required by the SFCs), but by claiming they could hypothetically violate the agreements, start altering the property, and get away with it in court.

Furthermore, properties are rezoned ALL the time, should that be a desire of a subsequent owner.

It's actually rather difficult to rezone a property. But that's irrelevant, because zoning isn't the primary impediment.

He has multiple agreements with the town, the county, and the National Trust for Historic Preservation. Those agreements are bound to the property, so selling it doesn't nullify them. If he wanted to do it legally, he'd have to convince all these entities to voluntarily agree to void the agreements... and that's not happening. Meaning he'd have to blatantly violate the agreement, then beat all these entities in court, before selling the property for top dollar.

So. Why, exactly, are you defending a pathological liar and serial fraud, who got caught red handed?

 

[Visbek]

Jeez, if someone did buy Mar-a-Lago, it looks as if it's quite the lucrative business!

Check your own link. The cost of membership was much higher in the past; Trump slashed it in 2012 because membership was dropping off.

Trump was only able to jack up the membership rates when he became President. It's basically people paying for access... a concept that would make any ethical person cringe. That is highly unlikely to continue if he sells -- or just loses the election this fall.

One thing your link didn't mention is that membership maxes out at 500. Needless to say, that's going to cap its revenues.

I might argue the fact that it's already a functioning and very exclusive private club with existing members - might make it worth (even) significantly more than if it were simply zoned as a private home.

You could argue that, but you'd be dead wrong. A new owner can't even change the paint without running afoul of historical restrictions.

There isn't a single person knowledgeable about Palm Beach real estate who makes that claim -- including Trump's own team.

 

[Grand Mal]

But...but...but...it's only worth $18 million!

CNN admits?
What are you playing at here?

 

[Grand Mal]

Its value is not even in the same universe as 18 million! It's worth substantially more than that and by many times.

Then Trump should have been paying substantially higher taxes on it, right?

 

[Grand Mal]

… it shows how unrealistic the alleged value assessed (invented?) by the court was.

The assessment was made for establishing property taxes, right? That's where the court got that number?
Are you guys saying Trump had for years been paying a miniscule fraction of the taxes he should have been assessed?

 

[Grand Mal]

The DA that went after him for allegedly overvaluing his property lied and said Mar A Lago was worth $18 mil when that was blatantly not true.

Where do you say that number, $18M, came from?
How many years did Trump pay a small fraction of the taxes he should have paid on the property?

 

[ttwtt78640]

The assessment was made for establishing property taxes, right? That's where the court got that number?
Are you guys saying Trump had for years been paying a miniscule fraction of the taxes he should have been assessed?

Nope, the assessed value for FL business property taxation has nothing to do with the property’s (potential) market value. It’s based on the projected (annual) business revenue - not the same assessment basis as is used for (strictly) residential property.

Video misleads about who valued Mar-a-Lago at $18 million

After a New York judge ruled last month in a fraud lawsuit that former President Donald Trump inflated the value of prop

www.politifact.com

Is Mar-a-Lago worth $1 billion? Trump's winter home valuations are at the core of his fraud trial

How much is Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago worth? That’s now a point of contention after a New York judge ruled that the former president exaggerated the Florida property’s value when he said it is worth at least $420 million.

apnews.com

 

[noonereal]

If the Trump haters didn't have hypocrisy, they wouldn't have anything to say.

If the orange idol worshipers don't have ignorance they wouldn't have anything.

 

[noonereal]

Nope, the assessed value for FL business property taxation has nothing to do with the property’s (potential) market value. It’s based on the projected (annual) business revenue - not the same assessment basis as is used for (strictly) residential property.

Video misleads about who valued Mar-a-Lago at $18 million

After a New York judge ruled last month in a fraud lawsuit that former President Donald Trump inflated the value of prop

www.politifact.com

Is Mar-a-Lago worth $1 billion? Trump's winter home valuations are at the core of his fraud trial

How much is Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago worth? That’s now a point of contention after a New York judge ruled that the former president exaggerated the Florida property’s value when he said it is worth at least $420 million.

apnews.com

Pointless.

 

[Grand Mal]

Nope, the assessed value for FL business property taxation has nothing to do with the property’s (potential) market value. It’s based on the projected (annual) business revenue - not the same assessment basis as is used for (strictly) residential property.

Video misleads about who valued Mar-a-Lago at $18 million

After a New York judge ruled last month in a fraud lawsuit that former President Donald Trump inflated the value of prop

www.politifact.com

Is Mar-a-Lago worth $1 billion? Trump's winter home valuations are at the core of his fraud trial

How much is Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago worth? That’s now a point of contention after a New York judge ruled that the former president exaggerated the Florida property’s value when he said it is worth at least $420 million.

apnews.com

Same thing. The assessed value is the basis for how it's taxed. If it's assessed at $18M based on profitability that's pretty much it's assessed market value, right? And if it should have been assessed in the hundreds of millions because that's what it's market value is based on profitability then it should have been taxed at a higher rate. Right?

 

[TheDoctorWasIn]

… it shows how unrealistic the alleged value assessed (invented?) by the court was.

...but why is that important to show?

You guys really have to read the decision. The court didn't "assess a value" of any of Trump's properties. The "assessed values" aren't part of the case against him.

Trump was found liable because he intentionally lied on financial documents for personal gain - real lies, not just differences of opinion.