Climate Change And Paul Ryan: Romney's VP Pick Irks Environmentalists

[Dittohead not!]

And this, of course, begs the question. What will stop Global Warming?

Nothing we can do is going to stop global warming. We'd be better off to try to find out just how it is going to affect us, then prepare for it.

But, alas, doing what's best doesn't seem to be humanity's strong suit. Instead, some of us will try to deny the science, while others will espouse radical "fixes" that won't work.

And still others will find ways to profit by the situation.

 

[Fishstyx]

Paul Ryan is an avid hunter and fly fisherman. To claim that he doesn't "care" about environment because he support energy development is ridiculous. He opposes "no" as a response to any domestic energy production. That is not the same as saying let oil/gas/nuke/etc destroy the environment. In fact, many moderate and reasonable conservation/environmental groups will work with big energy companies to come with solutions that benefit all.

 

[code1211]

Agreed.
So, does that make Ducks Unlimited fit the definition of conservationist, or environmentalist? It seems to me that the two words are really about the same, or were until "environmentalism" came to refer to the groups who really don't understand things, yet who are passionate about trying to save the Earth.

I must admit that I don't really care what the general label is. If the situation is improved, that is good. If the situation is made worse, that is bad. Whether the group doing the hurting or the helping has a good PR firm is irrelevant.

 

[Darroll]

Another bad thing about cap and trade is its war on mercury.
Mercury is a natural element that hatches in our rivers when the sun shines on the cinnabar.
People have been eating fish out of these rivers for thousands of years.
How can this phenomena be caused by humans?
Don’t tell these idiots about arsenic.

 

[Dittohead not!]

I must admit that I don't really care what the general label is. If the situation is improved, that is good. If the situation is made worse, that is bad. Whether the group doing the hurting or the helping has a good PR firm is irrelevant.

I agree.
Ducks unlimited has good results. Trout unlimited does, too. Sometimes, the Sierra Club has good results. That is what matters, whether the situation is better or not.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Another bad thing about cap and trade is its war on mercury.
Mercury is a natural element that hatches in our rivers when the sun shines on the cinnabar.
People have been eating fish out of these rivers for thousands of years.
How can this phenomena be caused by humans?
Don’t tell these idiots about arsenic.

A little arsenic, mercury, lead, or ethanol won't hurt you.

Too much causes problems.

Can you think of any human activity that has released too much mercury into the water and caused a health risk?

 

[Fishstyx]

I agree.
Ducks unlimited has good results. Trout unlimited does, too. Sometimes, the Sierra Club has good results. That is what matters, whether the situation is better or not.

Don't know about DU but not a fan at all of the national TU organization. Local chapters are great, the main organization is slowly on the path of being Greenpeace. Their facebook posts about their lobbying effort usually turn into a battle royale with the comments.

I won't be renewing my TU membership this year, I know quite a few others that have said the same thing. Sad really, I'm an avid supporter of river restoration. Just don't think the answer is just to oppose all energy development, especially gas. This is the posture that TU has taken.

 

[code1211]

Don't know about DU but not a fan at all of the national TU organization. Local chapters are great, the main organization is slowly on the path of being Greenpeace. Their facebook posts about their lobbying effort usually turn into a battle royale with the comments.

I won't be renewing my TU membership this year, I know quite a few others that have said the same thing. Sad really, I'm an avid supporter of river restoration. Just don't think the answer is just to oppose all energy development, especially gas. This is the posture that TU has taken.

It seems to be a constant that the further any organization is removed from its base of people the less that base will recognize the organization.

I suspect that the national org is less about trout and more about lobbying.

 

[obvious Child]

What in your mind makes a person reasonable?

Not the people in charge of the Republican Party these days.

Furthermore, where the hell did you get the notion that the ANWR would be that tiny of a foot space?

You ever see a drilling rig coupled with the necessary infrastructure to support it?

 

[obvious Child]

And you can demonstrate this with the data showing the poisonous rise of toxins in the environment?

That's a piss question and you know it.

You are basically asking me to prove what would happen if Democrats and the few GOP who do give a **** didn't exist.

But we can look at certain areas, such as Alaska who passed laws allowing firms to dump mine tillings into lakes effectively killing everything in the lakes.
And Republicans are dead set against any regulation of fracking despite numerous incidents where groundwater has become so contaminated that you can light water on fire.

The Libs like to cry about things, but the Cons actually do things, like create the EPA.[/qiuote]

You are calling a President who pushed price controls "conservative."

Hear that sound? It's me laughing at you. You made the error of assuming that Republican = Conservative.

Nixon, an Con in many ways, was a Big Government Liberal who robbed powers from the states and we should all work agains the growth of federal power since it robs from individual freedoms.

You do realize you just called a big liberal responsible for the EPA after your little comment no?

Bush Sr and Reagan pushed through cap and trade. That has literally saved the lumber industry in the north (as well as fishing). Should we push back things that save people's livelyhoods?

 

[code1211]

That's a piss question and you know it.

You are basically asking me to prove what would happen if Democrats and the few GOP who do give a **** didn't exist.

But we can look at certain areas, such as Alaska who passed laws allowing firms to dump mine tillings into lakes effectively killing everything in the lakes.
And Republicans are dead set against any regulation of fracking despite numerous incidents where groundwater has become so contaminated that you can light water on fire.

The Libs like to cry about things, but the Cons actually do things, like create the EPA.[/qiuote]

You are calling a President who pushed price controls "conservative."

Hear that sound? It's me laughing at you. You made the error of assuming that Republican = Conservative.



You do realize you just called a big liberal responsible for the EPA after your little comment no?

Bush Sr and Reagan pushed through cap and trade. That has literally saved the lumber industry in the north (as well as fishing). Should we push back things that save people's livelyhoods?

I think you mean tailings.

Again, Nixon was a Big Government Liberal in many ways, but he ran as a Conservative. You do remember the Southern Strategy, don't you?

I don't really care abut social issues at all. On the Federal Level, social issues really should not eve be a consideration. They justify the growth of the Federal Government so they have become Federal Issues.

Regardless of political affiliation, if a person advocates the expansion of the size, scope and expense of the Federal Government, he is a Liberal. If he advocates shrinking all of the same, he is Conservative.

Judging only by the size of the debt and deficits, we need some more Conservatives.

 

[obvious Child]

Code, you realize you entirely skipped over the environmental issue no?

 

[code1211]

Code, you realize you entirely skipped over the environmental issue no?

In the past, previous to the EPA and Earth Day, I was involved in the demonstrations for the first Earth Day, and the Viet nam War Demonstrations and the rest, the Cuyahoga River burst into flame. Pretty impressive, huh?

We haven't had a river burst into flame in a while.

The point is that things have improved markedly. The regulation pendulum has swung from the far right of the post WW2 times to the far left of today and it's swung too far IMHO.

Right now, geek bureaucrats have the power to close entire regions of the country to business in order to save smelt. Have you ever seen a smelt? It's not a particularly pretty or impressive animal. They are everywhere. In Lake Superior, if you stand in a tributary stream in the Fall, you can reach into the water with your hands and come up with about 6 at a time. If you want to use a net, bring a garbage can and fill it in about an hour.

There is a good end to a responsible use of the environment, but the current drive by the rabid and fanatical set of zealots in charge of the regulatory agencies is a bit beyond extreme.

 

[Dittohead not!]

In the past, previous to the EPA and Earth Day, I was involved in the demonstrations for the first Earth Day, and the Viet nam War Demonstrations and the rest, the Cuyahoga River burst into flame. Pretty impressive, huh?

We haven't had a river burst into flame in a while.

The point is that things have improved markedly. The regulation pendulum has swung from the far right of the post WW2 times to the far left of today and it's swung too far IMHO.

I'm not sure that "left" and "right" really apply here, but yes, there has been remarkable progress in the area of conservation.

At one time, gold miners could wash an entire mountain down into the nearest stream, and did so many times.

Right now, geek bureaucrats have the power to close entire regions of the country to business in order to save smelt.

If that's a reference to the delta smelt and the farmers of the San Joaquin valley who want to pump more water out of the delta, there's a lot more to the story than you seem to know.

 

[code1211]

I'm not sure that "left" and "right" really apply here, but yes, there has been remarkable progress in the area of conservation.

At one time, gold miners could wash an entire mountain down into the nearest stream, and did so many times.



If that's a reference to the delta smelt and the farmers of the San Joaquin valley who want to pump more water out of the delta, there's a lot more to the story than you seem to know.

Well, then, how about Snail Darters or Mexican Spotted Owls?

 

[Fishstyx]

It seems to be a constant that the further any organization is removed from its base of people the less that base will recognize the organization.

I suspect that the national org is less about trout and more about lobbying.

I was really conflicted. The national org does get involved in worthy projects. Damn removal, tailwater minimum release agreements, river restoration.

But now, they want to stop all water deviation, natural gas production, etc, etc. Just seems that an organization such as TU with a politically diverse membership would take a more balanced approach. I think they'd get so much further by working with the various corporations to come up with a mutually beneficial solution.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Well, then, how about Snail Darters or Mexican Spotted Owls?

I don't know much about snail darters and Mexican Spotted Owls. I'm familiar with the delta smelt issue, as it is local. That's the only smelt issue I've heard about.

 

[Schutzengel]

Well, then, how about Snail Darters or Mexican Spotted Owls?

They are tasty when BBQed properly ...

 

[code1211]

I don't know much about snail darters and Mexican Spotted Owls. I'm familiar with the delta smelt issue, as it is local. That's the only smelt issue I've heard about.

10-4.

Just about the same kind of thingy with those. People dying of thirst and a government agency waiting to see if the species that has now abandoned the area might return.

 

[code1211]

They are tasty when BBQed properly ...

I understand they taste a little like Bald Eagle.

 

[Schutzengel]

I understand they taste a little like Bald Eagle.

Actually bald eagle is a little fishy... everything tastes like what it eats ...

 

[obvious Child]

In the past, previous to the EPA and Earth Day, I was involved in the demonstrations for the first Earth Day, and the Viet nam War Demonstrations and the rest, the Cuyahoga River burst into flame. Pretty impressive, huh?

We haven't had a river burst into flame in a while.

The point is that things have improved markedly. The regulation pendulum has swung from the far right of the post WW2 times to the far left of today and it's swung too far IMHO.

Right now, geek bureaucrats have the power to close entire regions of the country to business in order to save smelt. Have you ever seen a smelt? It's not a particularly pretty or impressive animal. They are everywhere. In Lake Superior, if you stand in a tributary stream in the Fall, you can reach into the water with your hands and come up with about 6 at a time. If you want to use a net, bring a garbage can and fill it in about an hour.

There is a good end to a responsible use of the environment, but the current drive by the rabid and fanatical set of zealots in charge of the regulatory agencies is a bit beyond extreme.

That really doesn't address my point. Furthermore, you seem to be unaware that there are multiple species of fish.

You're still not addressing my point. In areas where Republicans tend to have hegemony over the legislature, environmental controls are often weak and lead to bad outcomes. Yes, there are some moderate Republicans who actually do give a ****, but letting the GOP run wild, like Alaska results in terrible outcomes. This is not the party of TR anymore.

 

[code1211]

That really doesn't address my point. Furthermore, you seem to be unaware that there are multiple species of fish.

You're still not addressing my point. In areas where Republicans tend to have hegemony over the legislature, environmental controls are often weak and lead to bad outcomes. Yes, there are some moderate Republicans who actually do give a ****, but letting the GOP run wild, like Alaska results in terrible outcomes. This is not the party of TR anymore.

Can you list those bad outcomes for me that are the result of weak environmental controls due to Republican control of legislatures?

 

[obvious Child]

Can you list those bad outcomes for me that are the result of weak environmental controls due to Republican control of legislatures?

RTFT.

Ten characters.

 

[code1211]

RTFT.

Ten characters.

I don't know what RTFT means.