Classified documents from Biden's time as VP discovered in private office, source says

[Slartibartfast]

None, except that the buck stops with Biden.

This is why I want there to be an investigation and why I don't want this to be swept under the rug.

Ahh, so you just want to blame Biden for something we already know he did not have awareness of until they were found by his lawyers.

 

[soap box]

He wasn’t legally allowed to take them in the first place.

Did you read a report about how Biden put them in that closet? Can I see it too please?

 

[Napoleon]

There are people who perform services in both the public and private sector that have clearances. That's not a real concern that you are bringing up.

Prove that Biden’s alleged movers had clearance to access and see classified top secret SCI documents.

 

[Hypothetical]

If they both refused to cooperate, I agree.

I dont care whether they cooperated or not, they aren't supposed to have Top Secret documents for long periods of time, as a civilian, out of contact with oversight.

 

[Galactic Spin]

Prove that Biden’s alleged movers had clearance to access and see classified top secret SCI documents.

Haha, so now we all have to prove the trumper fantasies wrong? No.

 

[DCCougar]

Which, as far as we know, has absolutely nothing to do with the documents trump walked off with, tried to hide, lied about having, ignored a subpoena and eventually had to be searched.

That isn’t going to happen with Biden. He reported it as soon as he knew about it, and is cooperating.

Trump never did any of that. Other than his farcical claim that he declassifed them by thinking so. A pathetic and obvious lie that you bought and parroted.

Don't forget! Facts mean nothing to Trumpists!

 

[Galactic Spin]

I dont care whether they cooperated or not, they aren't supposed to have Top Secret documents for long periods of time, as a civilian, out of contact with oversight.

The DOJ will definitely care.

 

[Atomic Kid]

You and I and others understand that. But my post stands, when one better understands it, of course the two instances are not equal, in the least, on the surface as it appears, but I see no reason for any less scrutiny in regards how all of our secret and classified documents might be handled or in these cases, mishandled.

I understand, as you obviously must, we have what appears to be a few documents mishandled, mistakenly, without intent to lie or hide them or with intentional obstruction of their return; compared to large scale intentional taking and obfuscation with lies and obstruction of those classified documents along with gross mishandling of said documents that were inappropriately in ones possession.

Oh I understand that this needs to be investigated than if no other reason to determine how these documents got there or why NARA or anyone else didn't seem to notice that these documents were missing for years. But right now there just a lot of speculation. For example we don't even know what the nature of the documents truly are or whether they were of any consequence or concern to the intelligence community. Administrative transitions are large and complex undertakings and it is often where mistakes in the handling of documents and records often occur.

 

[Hypothetical]

Ok I agree with that, if the evidence of wrongdoing comes forward.

You still didn't really say much about Nixon, but I'm not too concerned, not to worry. We'll stick to the OP.

having top secret documents out of the purview of a classified holding facility for years IS wrongdoing, barring some sort of granted legal access.

 

[tres borrachos]

Did you read a report about how Biden put them in that closet? Can I see it too please?

It's in the same place where he read about the "mountains" of documents.

Up his ass.

 

[SuperDS77]

Why would any of that be necessary when Biden called it in and the NARA already got the docs?

According to Biden's lawyers.

Are we just to take their word?

 

[SuperDS77]

Ahh, so you just want to blame Biden for something we already know he did not have awareness of until they were found by his lawyers.

No, we don't "already know" that. That is the claim.

 

[Napoleon]

Oh I understand that this needs to be investigated than if no other reason to determine how these documents got there or why NARA or anyone else didn't seem to notice that these documents were missing for years. But right now there just a lot of speculation. For example we don't even know what the nature of the documents truly are or whether they were of any consequence or concern to the intelligence community. Administrative transitions are large and complex undertakings and it is often where mistakes in the handling of documents and records often occur.

The answer to the NARA question is easy. Compliance with the Presidential Records Act is an honor system. For example, if the President makes so much as a doodle as part of his decision making process the law requires him turn it over to the National Archives. Problem is, nobody but the President knows the doodle exists.

So we’re in a strange position of having a law that requires a person to transfer custody of documents that, often times, only the person subject to the law knows exist. Oversight is virtually impossible. So NARA goes on fishing expeditions after the fact if someone gives them reason to believe documents are missing.

But that’s why someone who intends to comply with the law has peeps to go through the papers to determine what’s what. A person who intends to comply with the law doesn’t just just walk out of the White House with papers without knowing what they are.

 

[Galactic Spin]

According to Biden's lawyers.

Are we just to take their word?

Funny how that works. People get the benefit of the doubt that, when they self report and cooperate. If there is ay doubt at all.

When they refuse to cooperate and lie their asses off, they don't.

 

[SuperDS77]

Funny how that works. People get the benefit of the doubt that, when they self report and cooperate. If there is ay doubt at all.

Again , we are taking THEIR WORD regarding the self-reporting and "cooperation".

When they refuse to cooperate and lie their asses off, they don't.

Like the Jan 6th committee.

 

[roguenuke]

It speaks to the ongoing nature of the gross negligence. According to your scenario - he was grossly negligent in the first instance by taking mountains of papers without knowing what they were. And he continued to be grossly negligent by lugging boxes of said papers around until finally dumping them in a unsecure location without knowing what they were.

So, to your mind, there should be no accountability or punishment for gross negligence in the handling of classified top secret documents or violations of the Presidential Records Act?

It’s even worse if there was no intent there because, according your scenario, no one has any idea of what could be floating around out there including the man responsible for it. Isn’t there a national security obligation to find out? How do you know what’s out there when the only man who does know denies all knowledge of it?

Your first paragraph is just nonsense. That isn't at all how that works. It was all part of the same incident, not counted as different for each time you could possibly nit-pick out an incident where the papers weren't where they should have been.

There should be action based on intent and the individual incident, as is done for us. The extent of the situation, and based on the actions of those involved when the situation comes to light.

It isn't worse with no intent. Crimes require intent. And people that I know have been investigated for this, intent was what mattered for whether even security clearance is lost, let alone charges filed. The submariner that Trump pardoned for something along these lines faced the charges not because he had those pictures, or even that he was negligent with disposal of a phone with those pics on it, but rather because he intentionally tried to hide those pictures and where they were at from investigators, lied to investigators, destroyed evidence rather than turning it over to investigators. He'd likely have been able to remain a nuke had he not done those things, not faced charges nor possibly even a loss of security clearance had he cooperated fully. I know because I've seen similar investigations where the people did investigate.

 

[Napoleon]

Your first paragraph is just nonsense. That isn't at all how that works. It was all part of the same incident, not counted as different for each time you could possibly nit-pick out an incident where the papers weren't where they should have been.

There should be action based on intent and the individual incident, as is done for us. The extent of the situation, and based on the actions of those involved when the situation comes to light.

It isn't worse with no intent.

Someone who intends to comply with the law has peeps to go through the papers to determine what’s what and only leaves with what they’re allowed have. A person who intends to comply with the law doesn’t just just walk out of the White House with papers without knowing what they are.

 

[Mycroft]

Ahh, so you just want to blame Biden for something we already know he did not have awareness of until they were found by his lawyers.

What part of "I want there to be an investigation" do you not understand?

And what makes you think he didn't have awareness of this? Because he said so? LOL!!

Hell, Biden doesn't know WHAT he's saying most of the time nowadays.

 

[mike2810]

Again , we are taking THEIR WORD regarding the self-reporting and "cooperation".

Like the Jan 6th committee.

Did you take the FPOTUS Trump's word on the documents found at MAL?

This incident should be investigated for any violations of the law. If need be let the DOJ and courts decide on how big of a deal it is.

 

[mike2810]

None, except that the buck stops with Biden.

This is why I want there to be an investigation and why I don't want this to be swept under the rug.

Interesting how you didn't state things like this when it was dealing with Trump.

I agree with you that an investigation should be done. The question is who should investigate and will you believe the findings of such investigation?

 

[roguenuke]

Someone who intends to comply with the law has peeps to go through the papers to determine what’s what and only leaves with what they’re allowed have. A person who intends to comply with the law doesn’t just just walk out of the White House with papers without knowing what they are.

No, that is not how "intention" works. Lack of thoroughness does not mean a lack of intention to comply with a law/act.

 

[soap box]

Hmmmm.....so where were the armed FBI agents.....the battering rams.....the dozens of law enforcement vehicles and light and sirens???? News crews????

Anyone else sensing a double standard here???

Looks like the cases against Trump just went out the window.....que liberal gnashing of teeth!!!


Trump 2024 baby!!!!

Biden returned the docs? Why would anyone use battering rams? When did the FBI use battering rams at maralago?

 

[Ambig]

I dont care whether they cooperated or not, they aren't supposed to have Top Secret documents for long periods of time, as a civilian, out of contact with oversight.

That's not how the law works. In fact, cooperation is a major aspect of most all cases like this. The guy who cooperates gets a reduced sentence if he was involved and a medal if he wasn't.

So cooperation clearly matters.

 

[Napoleon]

No, that is not how "intention" works. Lack of thoroughness does not mean a lack of intention.

If he doesn’t know what the papers are then he didn’t review the papers to determine what the Presidential Records Act requires. And if he didn’t even bother to review the papers then how can he have intent to be compliant?

 

[Ambig]

Oh I understand that this needs to be investigated than if no other reason to determine how these documents got there or why NARA or anyone else didn't seem to notice that these documents were missing for years.

Yeah, that really bugs me... how our classified documents are apparently not tracked very well.