Classified documents from Biden's time as VP discovered in private office, source says

[soap box]

OMG is all I can say. You are the kind of person an attorney seeks out in a criminal case. You see evidence that a university got 70 million, not disputed by them, they won’t divulge the names of the Chinese donors. No refutation anywhere of the story and you are like the meme. This is astounding even for a liberal.

Lol

 

[Napoleon]

That isn’t going to happen with Biden. He reported it as soon as he knew about it, and is cooperating.

Let’s assume that it’s true that he didn’t know. That he left the White House in 2017 with mountains of documents without knowing what they were or where they are now. Doesn’t that just reinforce the fact that it would be prudent for the FBI to search all of his properties?

 

[roguenuke]

I would like to hear your explanation for how such a thing can happen inadvertently. How does one accidentally label a manilla folder “Personal”, accidentally put top secret SCI documents inside said folder, accidentally take said folder home, then accidentally put said folder in a broom closet at the University of Pennsylvania among boxes and boxes of other documents one accidentally forgot to give the National Archives 6 years ago? That’s an awful lot of….accidents.

Yes.

Because people packing up grabbed papers and just put them into a folder, not even noticing what it was labeled. My mother does it all the time. Hell I do it all the time. People are not perfect.

And if they didn't go through that paperwork in the last 6 years, which is very likely, then it wouldn't be noticed.

They didn't "take it home". It got sent to an office he knew he was going to be using before he became President with a lot of other paperwork of a similar nature.

 

[Galactic Spin]

Hmmmm.....so where were the armed FBI agents.....the battering rams.....the dozens of law enforcement vehicles and light and sirens???? News crews????

There was no need for any of that, since Biden self-reported and cooperated with the authorities. Those were pretty dumb questions, and I think you could probably have figured out the answers for yourself.

 

[soap box]

I do not know, but the implications are far too important to not thoroughly investigate, imho.

Ok I agree with that, if the evidence of wrongdoing comes forward.

You still didn't really say much about Nixon, but I'm not too concerned, not to worry. We'll stick to the OP.

 

[soap box]

Hmmmm.....so where were the armed FBI agents.....the battering rams.....the dozens of law enforcement vehicles and light and sirens???? News crews????

Anyone else sensing a double standard here???

Looks like the cases against Trump just went out the window.....que liberal gnashing of teeth!!!


Trump 2024 baby!!!!

Why would any of that be necessary when Biden called it in and the NARA already got the docs?

 

[Napoleon]

Because people packing up grabbed papers and just put them into a folder, not even noticing what it was labeled. My mother does it all the time. Hell I do it all the time. People are not perfect.

And if they didn't go through that paperwork in the last 6 years, which is very likely, then it wouldn't be noticed.

They didn't "take it home". It got sent to an office he knew he was going to be using before he became President with a lot of other paperwork of a similar nature.

A couple of things here.

1) Setting aside the fact the law requires it - Don’t you expect a VP to exercise even a modicum of due diligence in the handling of papers with significant national security implications?

2) Biden didn’t have the office until after he was named an honorary professor in February 2017. So, if not home, where did he take the documents between the time he left office in January and when he was gifted this office in February?

3) Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn’t know and it isn’t how it looks. Let’s assume your scenario - that he left the White House in January 2017 with mountains of papers without knowing what they were or where they are now. Doesn’t that just reinforce the fact that it would be prudent for the FBI to search all of his properties?

 

[snakestretcher]

Well, it sure sounded like you have concluded that Biden did not declassify anything. If you don't think so , I apologize for the inference, It seems the topic has suffered some truth drift. I don't know of any available information that would indicate anything that far advanced in the discussion and it seems like imagination has taken its place.

Not yet because I don't know what the law says. I have read that if the Vice President can declassify something if he himself was involved in the classification. It would also make sense that the VP needs access to everything in the event they are called to assume the presidency. Other than that , I think @OscarLevant has made some valid points, very valid , and if I have time I might look it up and confirm it for myself.

Yes, the original classifier or his/her immediate successor is one of the very few who can legally declassify materials. And it's a long, involved process:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2010-title32-vol6/pdf/CFR-2010-title32-vol6-part2001.pdf

And https://www.archives.gov/about/laws/appendix/12958.html Part 3.3.1

 

[soap box]

Sure. He could. And while he's doing that, he can release those declassified documents to the public so everyone can see what he was illegally keeping in that think tank office for so many years.

In any case, declassifying them now doesn't remove the fact that he broke the law while he was Vice President.

It's already a fact that he broke the law?

 

[madman]

Classified documents from Biden's time as VP discovered in private office

Classified documents from Biden's time as VP discovered in private office, source says | CNN Politics

Several classified documents from President Joe Biden's time as vice president were discovered last fall in a private office, a source with knowledge of the matter tells CNN.

www.cnn.com

The White House is cooperating with the National Archives and the Department of Justice regarding the discovery of what appear to be Obama-Biden Administration records, including a small number of documents with classified markings," Richard Sauber, special counsel to President Biden, said in a statement. "The documents were discovered when the President's personal attorneys were packing files housed in a locked closet to prepare to vacate office space at the Penn Biden Center in Washington, D.C. The President periodically used this space from mid-2017 until the start of the 2020 campaign. On the day of this discovery, November 2, 2022, the White House Counsel's Office notified the National Archives. The Archives took possession of the materials the following morning."

First, CNN is not afraid to post a story like this. Rep. Byron Donalds had a chance to take a swipe at Biden on the air this evening.
We'll see if there are differences with the Maralago case, such as cooperation with NARA and the DOJ.

I'll be first to claim that if all the conditions are the same then both presidents should be dealt the same fate.


"After the discovery, Biden's lawyers immediately contacted the National Archives and Records Administration, which started looking into the matter, the source said. Biden's team cooperated with NARA, which later came to view the situation as a mistake due to lack of safeguards for documents, the source said."

I'm sure this will stir up some trouble, one way or the other.

man! this story has sure fizzled out.

 

[Mycroft]

I have to run but I will be back in a couple of hours and refute what you post
have a nice day

Okay. I'll wait.

But you don't need to refute what I post. You need to support what YOU post.

 

[soap box]

Those documents weren't generated in that PA office. Biden had to have moved them from the WH to the think tank.

I didn't find anything to prove Biden moved the docs. Where did you read that, I want to see it too.

 

[Mycroft]

Which, as far as we know, has absolutely nothing to do with the documents trump walked off with, tried to hide, lied about having, ignored a subpoena and eventually had to be searched.

"as far as we know".

And all you know is what has been leaked and the nonsense created by the media.

What you DON'T know is what Trump says. You deliberately ignore that.

That isn’t going to happen with Biden. He reported it as soon as he knew about it, and is cooperating.

Trump never did any of that. Other than his farcical claim that he declassifed them by thinking so. A pathetic and obvious lie that you bought and parroted.

Again, I'm not interested in comparing Biden's crimes with Trump.

 

[roguenuke]

A couple of things here.

1) Setting aside the fact the law requires it - Don’t you expect a VP to exercise even a modicum of due diligence in the handling of papers with significant national security implications?

2) He did take them home. Biden didn’t have the office until after he was named an honorary professor in February 2017.

3) Let’s give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn’t know and it isn’t how it looks. That he left the White House in January 2017 with mountains of documents without knowing what they were or where they are now. Doesn’t that just reinforce the fact that it would be prudent for the FBI to search all of his properties?

February 2017 was less than a month after he was no longer VP. You do understand that right? That was easily in storage. It can take up to a month to get a military move to go through for us. Do you think it something that has never happened before, things delayed or that they would take it to his house and then to that office? That would be stupid. More likely is that it was kept in storage for less than a month.

I expect that it should be treated like most other cases where people forget or do something unintentionally stupid, they get a lecture and possibly loss of security clearance (except the President doesn't lose that), a mark on their record, when things are done unintentionally even when they could have/should have been much more careful. I have seen this happen. You act as if everyone who has ever unintentionally mishandled classified information loses their job, is prosecuted. That simply is not the normal, even for us little guys. It is when it is intentional or repeated incidents when that happens. Or when people try to cover it up.

And no, it wouldn't be prudent for the FBI to search all his properties, since there was no intent there and there is no indication of him trying to hide anything. But more than that, he is President, and as President, he is able to have classified documents with him at this time. So how would you separate that?

 

[tres borrachos]

Hmmmm.....so where were the armed FBI agents.....the battering rams.....the dozens of law enforcement vehicles and light and sirens???? News crews????

Anyone else sensing a double standard here???

Looks like the cases against Trump just went out the window.....que liberal gnashing of teeth!!!


Trump 2024 baby!!!!

Why, did Biden refuse to return them?

 

[Napoleon]

I didn't find anything to prove Biden moved the docs. Where did you read that, I want to see it too.

Why do you think it’s relevant? The only person under the law responsible for Biden’s compliance with the Presidential Records Act is Biden.

 

[snakestretcher]

The Biden crime family is! And have been for years.

And naturally you have more than just your opinion to back this up. Could we see some evidence?

 

[Mycroft]

I didn't find anything to prove Biden moved the docs. Where did you read that, I want to see it too.

Someone moved them.

That's why we need an investigation.

 

[soap box]

man! this story has sure fizzled out.

Yes , but I would call it truth drift. The trump supporters who have been posting have already finished the trial and sentencing, but the facts are still very scarce and very simple. Where are they getting all these imaginative and exaggerated ideas? ( He asked him knowingly)

 

[tres borrachos]

Let’s assume that it’s true that he didn’t know. That he left the White House in 2017 with mountains of documents without knowing what they were or where they are now. Doesn’t that just reinforce the fact that it would be prudent for the FBI to search all of his properties?

"Mountains"? Do post a link so we see how many were in these "mountains".

 

[tres borrachos]

Someone moved them.

That's why we need an investigation.

Get on it, counselor.

 

[soap box]

Why do you think it’s relevant? The only person under the law responsible for Biden’s compliance with the Presidential Records Act is Biden.

One of the main questions I would like to see answered in the DOJ investigation is- who put those docs in the location where they were found ? I also want to know if there's anyone on this planet who knew they were there.

But you didn't tell me how you came to your conclusion. I haven't seen your claim verified or supported anywhere and I am looking for definitive answers so I asked.

 

[soap box]

Let’s assume that it’s true that he didn’t know. That he left the White House in 2017 with mountains of documents without knowing what they were or where they are now. Doesn’t that just reinforce the fact that it would be prudent for the FBI to search all of his properties?

Ok I'll assume he didn't know. The applicable legal phrase is " willfully and knowingly " , and I was wondering where did you find out about the "mountains of documents"? Currently sources are saying a few boxes and a dozen docs.

 

[Napoleon]

February 2017 was less than a month after he was no longer VP. You do understand that right? That was easily in storage. It can take up to a month to get a military move to go through for us. Do you think it something that has never happened before, things delayed or that they would take it to his house and then to that office? That would be stupid. More likely is that it was kept in storage for less than a month.

It speaks to the ongoing nature of the gross negligence. According to your scenario - he was grossly negligent in the first instance by taking mountains of papers without knowing what they were. And he continued to be grossly negligent by lugging boxes of said papers around until finally dumping them in a unsecure location without knowing what they were.

I expect that it should be treated like most other cases where people forget or do something intentionally stupid, they get a lecture and possibly loss of security clearance (except the President doesn't lose that), a mark on their record, when things are done unintentionally even when they could have/should have been much more careful. I have seen this happen. You act as if everyone who has ever unintentionally mishandled classified information loses their job, is prosecuted. That simply is not the normal, even for us little guys. It is when it is intentional or repeated incidents when that happens. Or when people try to cover it up.

So, to your mind, there should be no accountability or punishment for gross negligence in the handling of classified top secret documents or violations of the Presidential Records Act?

And no, it wouldn't be prudent for the FBI to search all his properties, since there was no intent there and there is no indication of him trying to hide anything. But more than that, he is President, and as President, he is able to have classified documents with him at this time. So how would you separate that?

It’s even worse if there was no intent there because, according your scenario, no one has any idea of what could be floating around out there including the man responsible for it. Isn’t there a national security obligation to find out? How do you know what’s out there when the only man who does know denies all knowledge of it?

 

[Slartibartfast]

That is not a path you want to go down because it would mean that Biden knowingly mishandled classified information by exposing it to people who were not authorized to access it or see it.

There are people who perform services in both the public and private sector that have clearances. That's not a real concern that you are bringing up.