Churches without Christian Nationalism (there is hope)

[Slartibartfast]

My wife and discovered a new church in our local area and attended it today.

It was an interesting scenario for both of us due to our history. We both have had trouble trusting churches for a very long time due to previous churches using controlling techniques, like shame and manipulation to try to force us in their mold. In other words, we were church hurt, which is becoming increasingly common as many churches become more insular, political, and inward facing in today’s climate.

We both independently felt led to this church (which was a fun conversation when we finally had that) and going in today was a good experience. The people were genuine and very open to our story and in brief conversations found out that others had similar experiences of church hurt due to intolerant and controlling people who used religion as an excuse to force their ideology on others.

We found an interesting bit of trivia, which is the point of this post. This that the denomination is “disciples of Christ” which turns out our to have a bit of a long history promoting tolerance and people coming to Christ by simply being who they are.

For me, I have had this approach for a couple of decades, of just being me and interfacing with Jesus with the good, bad, and ugly parts of who I am. That time I spent with him has born fruit in that I am a much kinder, more living, and gentler person than I used to be. Jesus will work with your ugly parts and help you become more like he is.

For those of us who are Christians but don’t want to deal with today’s perverted political Christianity, check out this denomination: disciples of Christ and see if you like it.

It worked for me. (At least so far)

 

[AGENT J]

My wife and discovered a new church in our local area and attended it today.

It was an interesting scenario for both of us due to our history. We both have had trouble trusting churches for a very long time due to previous churches using controlling techniques, like shame and manipulation to try to force us in their mold. In other words, we were church hurt, which is becoming increasingly common as many churches become more insular, political, and inward facing in today’s climate.

We both independently felt led to this church (which was a fun conversation when we finally had that) and going in today was a good experience. The people were genuine and very open to our story and in brief conversations found out that others had similar experiences of church hurt due to intolerant and controlling people who used religion as an excuse to force their ideology on others.

We found an interesting bit of trivia, which is the point of this post. This that the denomination is “disciples of Christ” which turns out our to have a bit of a long history promoting tolerance and people coming to Christ by simply being who they are.

For me, I have had this approach for a couple of decades, of just being me and interfacing with Jesus with the good, bad, and ugly parts of who I am. That time I spent with him has born fruit in that I am a much kinder, more living, and gentler person than I used to be. Jesus will work with your ugly parts and help you become more like he is.

For those of us who are Christians but don’t want to deal with today’s perverted political Christianity, check out this denomination: disciples of Christ and see if you like it.

It worked for me. (At least so far)

it took me sometime to find a church that was actually about love and acceptance and self improvement and treating your neighbor like you want to be treated also . . . . . . and not a tool for judgment or money or power etc etc

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

My wife and discovered a new church in our local area and attended it today.

It was an interesting scenario for both of us due to our history. We both have had trouble trusting churches for a very long time due to previous churches using controlling techniques, like shame and manipulation to try to force us in their mold. In other words, we were church hurt, which is becoming increasingly common as many churches become more insular, political, and inward facing in today’s climate.

We both independently felt led to this church (which was a fun conversation when we finally had that) and going in today was a good experience. The people were genuine and very open to our story and in brief conversations found out that others had similar experiences of church hurt due to intolerant and controlling people who used religion as an excuse to force their ideology on others.

We found an interesting bit of trivia, which is the point of this post. This that the denomination is “disciples of Christ” which turns out our to have a bit of a long history promoting tolerance and people coming to Christ by simply being who they are.

For me, I have had this approach for a couple of decades, of just being me and interfacing with Jesus with the good, bad, and ugly parts of who I am. That time I spent with him has born fruit in that I am a much kinder, more living, and gentler person than I used to be. Jesus will work with your ugly parts and help you become more like he is.

For those of us who are Christians but don’t want to deal with today’s perverted political Christianity, check out this denomination: disciples of Christ and see if you like it.

It worked for me. (At least so far)

I applaud you finding a rational and sane congregation to fellowship with but herein lies the problem with DoC churches...



Membership numbers...down to 350 thousand, which means that the DoC along with all the other sane churches, is largely DROWNED out by big evangelical Christian Nationalists and Dominionists.
It is unfortunate but if in the end you feel better belonging to them, more power to you, I only hope that DoC and other congregations like it begin to experience a resurgence in the near future.

 

[Slartibartfast]

it took me sometime to find a church that was actually about love and acceptance and self improvement and treating your neighbor like you want to be treated also . . . . . . and not a tool for judgment or money or power etc etc

I have been in plenty of churches where they try to set up little ideological factories and get all of their members believing the same thing. I have always found that very confining and when I have questions that don't fit that mold, I get the side eye. However, the lack of discussion or mentorship on the occasional "odd" question is going to be a blocker for my growth in religious matters. You can get a lot by praying, but we need fellowship for a reason.

Biblically, Jesus is able to deal with things that are not always copesctic (Thomas and Saul before he became Paul, or all the times he had to pull Peter aside and calm him down, the "sons of thunder', etc).

This church supports honest questioning and organic learning where a lot of churches do not. I find that attractive.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I applaud you finding a rational and sane congregation to fellowship with but herein lies the problem with DoC churches...

View attachment 67494714

Membership numbers...down to 350 thousand, which means that the DoC along with all the other sane churches, is largely DROWNED out by big evangelical Christian Nationalists and Dominionists.
It is unfortunate but if in the end you feel better belonging to them, more power to you, I only hope that DoC and other congregations like it begin to experience a resurgence in the near future.

Yeah, there is an inherent weirdness in the sheer variability between local churches and the lack of a one size fits all approach. You gotta find a good congregation. I spent some time last night going through all the criticisms of the approach that I could find via google and I found those concerns as well. If, for example, this church does not teach a literal hell, I will move on.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Yeah, there is an inherent weirdness in the sheer variability between local churches and the lack of a one size fits all approach. You gotta find a good congregation. I spent some time last night going through all the criticisms of the approach that I could find via google and I found those concerns as well. If, for example, this church does not teach a literal hell, I will move on.

Nevertheless it's good you picked carefully.
Christian Nationalism is just plain old white nationalism in which Jesus is trotted out as a mascot to endorse something that bears absolutely no resemblance to the Sermon on the Mount or apostolic Christianity.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Nevertheless it's good you picked carefully.
Christian Nationalism is just plain old white nationalism in which Jesus is trotted out as a mascot to endorse something that bears absolutely no resemblance to the Sermon on the Mount or apostolic Christianity.

Unfortunately, its increasingly the mainstream and that's already resulting in a lot of hurt and lost people.

My hope and prayer is that a religious movement sweeps across western society that is more closely aligned to the religion of peace that Christianity is. Christianity is the lifeboat on a ship where the crew is determined to sink their own boat through their evil and stupidity (and if you doubt that, look at what we are doing to our environment). If we continue with this analogy, the good news is simply telling people there is seating on that boat.

Often times it does not need to be any more complicated than that, but people want to make it complicated and then enforce their own point of view through that complication, which then gets churches off track. A simple approach to this religion is better, imho.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Organized religion is tricky enough to navigate, but American Protestantism in the Trumpist Age? Forget it. Too many churches are politicized and have abandoned a "blood of Christ" mentality for "blood and soil."

 

[Overitall]

Yeah, there is an inherent weirdness in the sheer variability between local churches and the lack of a one size fits all approach. You gotta find a good congregation. I spent some time last night going through all the criticisms of the approach that I could find via google and I found those concerns as well. If, for example, this church does not teach a literal hell, I will move on.

Why is that the deal breaker for you? People are not perfect and the Church is dependent upon them. So, the saying "Chew on the meat and spit out the bones." might be the approach one might adopt in choosing a Church to attend.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Why is that the deal breaker for you? People are not perfect and the Church is dependent upon them. So, the saying "Chew on the meat and spit out the bones." might be the approach one might adopt in choosing a Church to attend.

I do not know what that saying means (this is the first time I have encountered it).

To answer your question, I went to a UU church once for a friend's wedding and the whole thing was just kind of stupid (it was like making progressivism a religion) so I have always been a bit guarded since then. Admittedly this is due to personal experience. Part of that is me being sad that something like hell could even exist and the idea of eternal torment just freaks me out (I have trouble conceptualizing the idea of someone being that bad, even someone like Hitler), therefore I am prone to wishful thinking. Biblical evidence suggests that Hell exists, so I just kind of have to man up and make sure I am not in a space where I can wish it away and ignore it. Reality is reality.

 

[Daisy]

The key is in finding a place of worship where the Bible determines what is being taught, not a place that determines what the Bible teaches...

 

[Slartibartfast]

The key is in finding a place of worship where the Bible determines what is being taught, not a place that determines what the Bible teaches...

Yeah pretty much any church believe it is bible lead. That's a very nice saying but it has no practical use in the real world.

 

[Daisy]

Yeah pretty much any church believe it is bible lead. That's a very nice saying but it has no practical use in the real world.

Do they teach in harmony with what the Bible says? ALL of the Bible, not just a scripture taken here and there out of context? Eternal torment freaks you out because that is not what the Bible teaches, when considering ALL scriptures regarding death and life...man is mortal...he dies...period...the only hope of man living again is putting his faith in Jehovah God and His Son Jesus Christ and following their commandments...God does not play with double talk...that is man's territory...

 

[Slartibartfast]

Do they teach in harmony with what the Bible says? ALL of the Bible, not just a scripture taken here and there out of context? Eternal torment freaks you out because that is not what the Bible teaches, when considering ALL scriptures regarding death and life...man is mortal...he dies...period...the only hope of man living again is putting his faith in Jehovah God and His Son Jesus Christ and following their commandments...God does not play with double talk...that is man's territory...

I've heard the JW sales pitch already. Again churches tend to believe they are being authentic.

I am not going to go your path believe it leads down a very unbiblical direction and tends to put too much emphasis on works, IMHO.

 

[Daisy]

I've heard the JW sales pitch already. Again churches tend to believe they are being authentic.

I am not going to go your path believe it leads down a very unbiblical direction and tends to put too much emphasis on works, IMHO.

Obedience is a product/result of believing...after all, obedience is kinda what your OP is all about...

 

[Slartibartfast]

Obedience is a product/result of believing...after all, obedience is kinda what your OP is all about...

Obedience is a product, sure, but obedience is not required for salvation, belief is.

Doing stuff like celebrating christmas is not going to get in the way of that (or even matter at all). Avoiding some holiday and thinking it's going to affect one's salvation is works.

 

[Daisy]

Obedience is a product, sure, but obedience is not required for salvation, belief is.

Doing stuff like celebrating christmas is not going to get in the way of that (or even matter at all). Avoiding some holiday and thinking it's going to affect one's salvation is works.

Yeah, that's probably what Aaron thought too when he had the Israelites make the golden calf...

 

[Slartibartfast]

Yeah, that's probably what Aaron thought too when he had the Israelites make the golden calf...

Like I said, spare me your sales pitch. I am not an easily manipulated person.

 

[Daisy]

 

[Revelation]

Yeah, there is an inherent weirdness in the sheer variability between local churches and the lack of a one size fits all approach. You gotta find a good congregation. I spent some time last night going through all the criticisms of the approach that I could find via google and I found those concerns as well. If, for example, this church does not teach a literal hell, I will move on.

what you need is old fashioned pulpit pounding, foot stomping, convicting preaching.

most preachers don't have enuf power to blow the fuzz off a peach....


...this is what we need, not some Vanilla kinda of guy that is Sappy and afraid to preach the Word of Truth.

tell the wimps to get out of the pulpit and make room for guys who can preach.

come on people: wake up.


.blessings.

 

[Slartibartfast]

what you need is old fashioned pulpit pounding, foot stomping, convicting preaching.

most preachers don't have enuf power to blow the fuzz off a peach....


View attachment 67495978...this is what we need, not some Vanilla kinda of guy that is Sappy and afraid to preach the Word of Truth.

tell the wimps to get out of the pulpit and make room for guys who can preach.

come on people: wake up.


.blessings.

I am pretty sure God allows different styles of churches to fit different personality types, within reasonable guard rails.

That belief is, admittedly, my own logical conclusion, but we do have scripture that points to people having room to worship in ways that make sense to them, such as Romans 14-2:6

 

[Ginger Ale]

Nevertheless it's good you picked carefully.
Christian Nationalism is just plain old white nationalism in which Jesus is trotted out as a mascot to endorse something that bears absolutely no resemblance to the Sermon on the Mount or apostolic Christianity.

I find that to be true, and it's more of an ideology than a belief. Not healthy for a society to be run by that.

 

[Ginger Ale]

What does that even mean? What is the wrath of God that remains?
Sounds like a story line from the Witch and the Wardrobe.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I guess I will give an update.

This church REALLY tried to get us into helping with their community garden which they use to generate surplus food to give to food banks in the area. On top of that, they sell plots and then use the donations to help the poor as well.

The problem is. Both my wife and I suck at gardening ... badly, so we declined. On top of that, we are taking it slow having both been victims of church hurt. When we take that step, we will find a different way to help.

Beyond that, my only real criticism is that in the sermons, the lead pastor talks about the history of the church over the last decade A LOT, it seems the church is in a bit of a rebuilding phase as a lot of the original members aged out. They were down and are now coming back up. That and the songs are kind of boring and seem to be from the 1700s. Neither is the worst thing in the world.

Other than that. I really like this place and my wife even asked one of the elders and his family over for lunch at a yet undetermined date. That surprised me (I didn't know it was going to happen) but I happily went with it.

 

[Ginger Ale]

The Christian Reich has not only stolen Christianity from Christians, but has done it's best to built mega Walmart churches to limit Christians choice in all areas of this country and that's by design. They're not going to share belief, they're going to tell you their right, and if you aren't on board they'll force you by law to pretend, and you're going to hell if you act or belief otherwise. Very authoritarian shit.

It's bizarre to those of us who aren't religious. Simply unhealthy looking. I blame our government for touting crap like "In God we Trust" "God bless America" etc.
We need to get rid of all of that and let religion and belief in Gods become something you do as an individual, not as a government.