Christian roots of Europe

[MetalGear]

We should house them until we can deport them to a country that will not torture them or empose capital punishments on them if there native lands will.

We shouldnt hand over anybody to the Americans especially if they are our own. I dont give a **** if they brought down the NSA network, we need to hold our ground a bit.

 

[MetalGear]

Call me a racist asshole but i believe its just some honest, rational thinking that some people are too scared to say.

 

[misterman]

For example i believe Minorities are the biggest assholes in the world, but that doesnt mean we shouldnt give them rights.

You have a way with words.

 

[misterman]

Call me a racist asshole but i believe its just some honest, rational thinking that some people are too scared to say.

You're a racist asshole.

Hey, you told me to call you that!

Seriously, just because people have thoughts doesn't make the thoughts rational or just.

 

[MetalGear]

You have a way with words.

Am i wrong? I dont think so. Dont know about things up in America, but Europe is a typical immigrant tragedy waiting to happen.

You're a racist asshole.

Hey, you told me to call you that!

Seriously, just because people have thoughts doesn't make the thoughts rational or just.

Just because im not politically correct doesnt mean im unjust or irrational either.

 

[Grant]

I never said I was a supporter of Wilders.

Don't play game with me.

If you support free speech you must support Wilders. That does not mean you have to agree with him.

Voltaire is often credited with with the idea behind all of this.

 

[misterman]

If you support free speech you must support Wilders. That does not mean you have to agree with him.

Support has more than one meaning. Be more precise.

I support his right to free speech; I oppose what he is saying. But that was already clear from what I said before.

 

[MetalGear]

If you support free speech you must support Wilders. That does not mean you have to agree with him.

Voltaire is often credited with with the idea behind all of this.

I support free speech. I support Geerts right to speak but do not support Geert's opinions. Thats what misterman is getting at.

 

[Grant]

I support free speech. I support Geerts right to speak but do not support Geert's opinions. Thats what misterman is getting at.

Yes, that's what we're all getting at. But it is necessary that we support those with whom we disagree also.

Its easy enough to demand free speech for those with whom you agree but it's just as easy to be reluctant to be silent when those with whom you disagree are brought before the courts, or the man with a lash, for speaking out.

It's this inconsistency which will plague Europeans well into the future.

 

[misterman]

Yes, that's what we're all getting at. But it is necessary that we support those with whom we disagree also.

Its easy enough to demand free speech for those with whom you agree but it's just as easy to be reluctant to be silent when those with whom you disagree are brought before the courts, or the man with a lash, for speaking out.

We already agree about that. We did a long time ago.

Let's go tell Europe.

 

[Dutch]

This Van Rompuy has too many wet dreams about what Europe once was. This isnt the Roman Empire; this is the EU. An economical and political union of European states in the 21st century. We need to aspire to secularism and enlightenment, freedom and democracy - something that is counter to religious beliefs. Our good President needs to move us foward, not try a pathetic attempt to push us back. We need to unite Europe under the pretext we share similar heritage and cultural background; we need to take pride in this, not try and make it an EU "way of life" or believe its our duty to enforce it onto people.

This seems to be the dream of many other posters here too.

Sounds like positism to me. Comte would be proud. However, this approach is leading to the death of western civilization. Good luck with that.

 

[misterman]

Sounds like positism to me. Comte would be proud. However, this approach is leading to the death of western civilization. Good luck with that.

Yes, freedom of speech will lead to the death of our cherished Western freedoms, like freedom of speech.

 

[Dutch]

What about the Pagan roots of Europe?

You know where the following came from

Christmas trees (Pagan Germany)

The reason why Christmas is held right around December 21-23

Why Easter is held in Spring

Or the Julian calendar with names of Roman gods.


The Renaissance occured dispite the Church not because of it.

Increased trade with the ME, north Africe etc brought new ideas and wealth into Europe which at the time was far backward in comparison. Notice how the Renaissance started in the Italian city states that traded heavily with the eastern Med, and not in France

I disagree. It happened because christianity allowed it. When "the church" got in the way of it too much the reformation happened. The exact opposite happened in the muslim world. The fundamentalists prevailed thus leading their culture into a decline it is still experiencing.

 

[Dutch]

Yes, freedom of speech will lead to the death of our cherished Western freedoms, like freedom of speech.

I was thinking more along the lines of this. Secularists just don't produce children. It takes faith to bring children into the world.


source

......Non-number-crunchers largely ignored the information until a 2002 study by Italian, German and Spanish social scientists focused the data and gave policy makers across the European Union something to ponder. The figure of 2.1 is widely considered to be the “replacement rate” — the average number of births per woman that will maintain a country’s current population level. At various times in modern history — during war or famine — birthrates have fallen below the replacement rate, to “low” or “very low” levels. But Hans-Peter Kohler, José Antonio Ortega and Francesco Billari — the authors of the 2002 report — saw something new in the data. For the first time on record, birthrates in southern and Eastern Europe had dropped below 1.3. For the demographers, this number had a special mathematical portent. At that rate, a country’s population would be cut in half in 45 years, creating a falling-off-a-cliff effect from which it would be nearly impossible to recover. Kohler and his colleagues invented an ominous new term for the phenomenon: “lowest-low fertility.”.....

 

[misterman]

I was thinking more along the lines of this. Secularists just don't produce children. It takes faith to bring children into the world.

Oh, okay. Sure. Whatever.

 

[Grant]

I was thinking more along the lines of this. Secularists just don't produce children. It takes faith to bring children into the world.


source

And this certainty, and it is a certainty, spells the end of Europe as we have known it.

The question now is what will take its place, though that's becoming clear, and the consequences which will follow.

 

[misterman]

And this certainty, and it is a certainty, spells the end of Europe as we have known it.

So what? If Europeans have no faith and all that, what do they care anyway?

 

[Dutch]

And this certainty, and it is a certainty, spells the end of Europe as we have known it.

The question now is what will take its place, though that's becoming clear, and the consequences which will follow.

The future belongs to those who have children. It would appear secular western culture comes with an expiration date.

 

[Dutch]

So what? If Europeans have no faith and all that, what do they care anyway?

They don't. Hell, I don't either. Either you believe in your culture......or you don't. They don't. It's little wonder the muslims of europe want to retain their own culture. Why take the trouble of adopting a dying one?

 

[Grant]

So what? If Europeans have no faith and all that, what do they care anyway?

They either don't care or are in denial.

Only those with children reallly care, and families are emigrating at a record pace.

 

[Grant]

The future belongs to those who have children. It would appear secular western culture comes with an expiration date.

Yep!

But what will take its place?

Right now it appears to be Islam.

That raises the question of how that will effect wineries, pubs, freedom of speech, stockpiles of nuclear weapons, Gays, womens rights, and so on. I doubt these questions, apart from a few academics, are being asked anywhere in Europe.

 

[misterman]

Yep!

But what will take its place?

Right now it appears to be Islam.

That raises the question of how that will effect wineries, pubs, freedom of speech, stockpiles of nuclear weapons, Gays, womens rights, and so on. I doubt these questions, apart from a few academics, are being asked anywhere in Europe.

Hey, wait - this is a threat to beer! Now I care!

 

[Grant]

Hey, wait - this is a threat to beer! Now I care!

There is a real trend, despite the dramatic increases in population.

The death of the British pub | Richard Morrison - Times Online

 

[MetalGear]

Add Fish & Chips to the dying British heritage

 

[Grant]

Add Fish & Chips to the dying British heritage

And family breakdown, social civility, public hygiene, etc. has not been mentioned.

Other nations should take notice of what happened to Britain and try to prevent, however they can, the same thing from happening in their democracies.