China closes Airspace to "russian" Boeing and Airbus aircraft

[Litwin]

still Moscow´s poodles will keep selling to us "possible Moscow - China´s super- powerful alliance "


"Some allies are more dangerous than enemies " - genius quote Fun fact: Mongolia coquered both of them 800 years ago

China Closes Airspace to Russian Airbus, Boeing Aircraft

Find out why China is prohibiting some Russian Boeing and Airbus aircraft from flying through its territory.

airwaysmag.com

 

[The Stars Tremble]

China is the hardest country on Earth to analyze. Sometimes I think they draw up a list of options and roll a dice.

This could be anything, frankly. China might not trust the planes themselves, if Russia is having trouble sourcing parts.

 

[TomFitz]

There never was one.

The Chinese and the Russians have been traditional enemies for a thousand years.

A lot of cold warriors were fooled by the convenient alliance between China and the USSR, that lasted barely 1o years beginning with the Korean War. It was overhyped in US media. And buried for good by Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger.

The Chinese want the natural resources of Siberia. They can get them either by cozying up to Moscow, or by seeing Moscow lose in Ukraine and swooping in and stealing them on Beijing‘s terms.

So it was in their interest to may sympathetic noises, while waiting to see what happened.

And when the vaunted Red Army turned out to be a paper tiger, they sat back while Russia bled blood and treasure, and the West did as well.

Biden’s sweep through Asia was not lost on Bejing.

And this is their response.

 

[Litwin]

China is the hardest country on Earth to analyze. Sometimes I think they draw up a list of options and roll a dice.

one for sure China always guards own interests not pootin´s gang and his empire interests , as Moscow wan us to think

 

[Mithros]

China is the hardest country on Earth to analyze. Sometimes I think they draw up a list of options and roll a dice.

This could be anything, frankly. China might not trust the planes themselves, if Russia is having trouble sourcing parts.

Imo it’s almost certainly the latter. China was the first to ground the 737 Max and they grounded the 737-800 after the Eastern Air crash.

Russia stole the aircraft from the western leasing companies. Boeing and Airbus refused all maintenance support in retaliation and Russia can’t maintain its own airforce. It’s only rational to assume that those aircraft represent a clear danger to everyone they fly over.

 

[Litwin]

There never was one.

The Chinese and the Russians have been traditional enemies for a thousand years.

A lot of cold warriors were fooled by the convenient alliance between China and the USSR, that lasted barely 1o years beginning with the Korean War. It was overhyped in US media. And buried for good by Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger.

The Chinese want the natural resources of Siberia. They can get them either by cozying up to Moscow, or by seeing Moscow lose in Ukraine and swooping in and stealing them on Beijing‘s terms.

So it was in their interest to may sympathetic noises, while waiting to see what happened.

And when the vaunted Red Army turned out to be a paper tiger, they sat back while Russia bled blood and treasure, and the West did as well.

Biden’s sweep through Asia was not lost on Bejing.

And this is their response.

many Muscovites want to believe that han- China will stand side by side with Moscow in this war. you made a great point here "Moscow lose in Ukraine and swooping in and stealing them on Beijing‘s terms." I think that the Turkey is one more clear winner , <Turkey has wanted to move in the Central Asia /Siberia for many years , and today pootler is opening the doors´ of the CA/Siberia for the Turks

Pan-Turkism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[The Stars Tremble]

Imo it’s almost certainly the latter. China was the first to ground the 737 Max and they grounded the 737-800 after the Eastern Air crash.

Russia stole the aircraft from the western leasing companies. Boeing and Airbus refused all maintenance support in retaliation and Russia can’t maintain its own airforce. It’s only rational to assume that those aircraft represent a clear danger to everyone they fly over.

But as I say, it's hard to read China's real intention. There is often more than one reason. Ultimately they do economically irrational things, for mostly nationalistic reasons, but they're always looking for pretexts which will be more acceptable to Westerners. China is the greatest beneficiary of free trade, and they don't want to kill that goose.

They may be trying to help sales of their own C919, within China at first (so they can cover up crashes or near-crashes) but later throughout the huge short-haul market of Asia. Banning Boeings or Airbuses on the grounds of safety, would be laughable if they're replaced with C919's ... except they don't care if we laugh. The Chinese people will buy the line that Boeings and Airbuses are just as dangerous and here look, we banned them for it. Simple nationalism makes that a palatable lie.

I expect there are other reasons. Air China (the government owned one of the Big Three) would like a bigger share, and Russia is a politically apt target. That would be a commercial interest, disguised as co-operation with Western sanctions.

Sometimes I think China even does totally random things, just make us think they're massively smarter than us!

 

[Tigerace117]

There never was one.

The Chinese and the Russians have been traditional enemies for a thousand years.

A lot of cold warriors were fooled by the convenient alliance between China and the USSR, that lasted barely 1o years beginning with the Korean War. It was overhyped in US media. And buried for good by Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger.

The Chinese want the natural resources of Siberia. They can get them either by cozying up to Moscow, or by seeing Moscow lose in Ukraine and swooping in and stealing them on Beijing‘s terms.

So it was in their interest to may sympathetic noises, while waiting to see what happened.

And when the vaunted Red Army turned out to be a paper tiger, they sat back while Russia bled blood and treasure, and the West did as well.

Biden’s sweep through Asia was not lost on Bejing.

And this is their response.

China is not going to be able to “swoop in” and steal anything, no matter how delighted the concept makes American strategists glancing at maps. Russia still has thousands of nuclear warheads which could completely obliterate China’s “destined rise”. China knows that as well as anyone else.

A lot of Cold Warriors were fooled by all that aid China gave the US during the latter half of the Cold War against the USSR into thinking that they would always abide by American interests at the end of the day.

 

[Tigerace117]

many Muscovites want to believe that han- China will stand side by side with Moscow in this war. you made a great point here "Moscow lose in Ukraine and swooping in and stealing them on Beijing‘s terms." I think that the Turkey is one more clear winner , <Turkey has wanted to move in the Central Asia /Siberia for many years , and today pootler is opening the doors´ of the CA/Siberia for the Turks

Pan-Turkism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 67393774

Turkey isn’t that stupid, especially since America wouldn’t send them a dime of support for such a scheme.

 

[Litwin]

Turkey

Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan is vigorously pursuing a pan-Turkic Eurasian foreign policy. For instance, this shift can be seen in the recent rebranding of the Council of Turkic States into the more substantive Organization of Turkic States. Some even call Turkey’s policy in Eurasia an attempt to establish a “Turkic NATO” or revive the “Army of Turan.” Turkey’s Central Asia policy is defined through a “Turkic World” prism that emphasizes ethnic, cultural, and historical roots, as well as economic dimensions.

What Does Turkey’s Pan-Turkic Eurasian Pivot Hold for Pakistan?

While public sentiment favors strong ties between Pakistan and Turkey, there are political and geopolitical realities that Pakistan cannot escape.

nationalinterest.org

 

[Tigerace117]

Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan is vigorously pursuing a pan-Turkic Eurasian foreign policy. For instance, this shift can be seen in the recent rebranding of the Council of Turkic States into the more substantive Organization of Turkic States. Some even call Turkey’s policy in Eurasia an attempt to establish a “Turkic NATO” or revive the “Army of Turan.” Turkey’s Central Asia policy is defined through a “Turkic World” prism that emphasizes ethnic, cultural, and historical roots, as well as economic dimensions.

What Does Turkey’s Pan-Turkic Eurasian Pivot Hold for Pakistan?

While public sentiment favors strong ties between Pakistan and Turkey, there are political and geopolitical realities that Pakistan cannot escape.

nationalinterest.org

Which is very different than invading Siberia. Duh.

The plan would be a bloodbath for the Turkish Army and likely spell doom for Erdogan.

 

[Litwin]

Which is very different than invading Siberia

do you know that the majority of killed in Ukraine represent Siberian and other minorities *including turkic people . do you think they like this kind colonial reality ?

 

[Tigerace117]

do you know that the majority of killed in Ukraine represent Siberian and other minorities *including turkic people . do you think they like this kind colonial reality ?

Do you really think they want to live under a dictator like Erdogan? Get real bud.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan is vigorously pursuing a pan-Turkic Eurasian foreign policy. For instance, this shift can be seen in the recent rebranding of the Council of Turkic States into the more substantive Organization of Turkic States. Some even call Turkey’s policy in Eurasia an attempt to establish a “Turkic NATO” or revive the “Army of Turan.” Turkey’s Central Asia policy is defined through a “Turkic World” prism that emphasizes ethnic, cultural, and historical roots, as well as economic dimensions.

What Does Turkey’s Pan-Turkic Eurasian Pivot Hold for Pakistan?

While public sentiment favors strong ties between Pakistan and Turkey, there are political and geopolitical realities that Pakistan cannot escape.

nationalinterest.org

Nationalism wins votes. All talk.

 

[Litwin]

Do you really think they want to live under a dictator like Erdogan?

Do you really think they want to live under a dictator like pootler?

Domestos Lifts The Lid On 'Scary' State Of Russian School Toilets

Cleaning-product brand Domestos has announced the winners of a competition for the worst school toilets in Russia, unleashing a wave of online criticism over the creaking condition of bathrooms across the country.

www.rferl.org

 

[Tigerace117]

Do you really think they want to live under a dictator like pootler?

Domestos Lifts The Lid On 'Scary' State Of Russian School Toilets

Cleaning-product brand Domestos has announced the winners of a competition for the worst school toilets in Russia, unleashing a wave of online criticism over the creaking condition of bathrooms across the country.

www.rferl.org

View attachment 67393849

Better than being under the thumb of a thug like Erdogan. Nobody wants to be ruled by Turkey.

 

[Litwin]

Better than being under the thumb of a thug like Erdogan.

why ? can prove it ? using the main democracy , economic development indexes ?

 

[The Stars Tremble]

why ? can prove it ? using the main democracy , economic development indexes ?

137/176 ... Turkey ... Moderate Autocracy ... 144/176 ... Russia ... Moderate Autocracy

They both suck pretty bad. Practically equal given how arbitrary any democracy index is.

Ranking

www.democracymatrix.com

 

[Litwin]

137/176 ... Turkey ... Moderate Autocracy ... 144/176 ... Russia ... Moderate Autocracy

They both suck pretty bad. Practically equal given how arbitrary any democracy index is.

Ranking

www.democracymatrix.com

still Turkey is much more relax place to live , not even close to mordor. thats why millions Scandinavians will visit Turkey this year .

 

[Litwin]

Russia stole the aircraft from the western leasing companies. Boeing and Airbus refused all maintenance support in retaliation and Russia can’t maintain its own airforce. It’s only rational to assume that those aircraft represent a clear danger to everyone they fly over.

 

[Tigerace117]

why ? can prove it ? using the main democracy , economic development indexes ?

…..once again, Erdogan is a brutal dictator. You blathering on about the “democracy index” is absurd.

 

[bave]

China is the hardest country on Earth to analyze. Sometimes I think they draw up a list of options and roll a dice.

This could be anything, frankly. China might not trust the planes themselves, if Russia is having trouble sourcing parts.

This has nothing to do with it. It is because the airplanes are currently, effectively, stolen property. Almost all aircraft flown by airlines are not owned by the airlines, they are owned by leasing companies who in turn lease them out. China doesn't want to be involved in that.

 

[Litwin]

Erdogan is a brutal dictator.

is a joke compere to your fav- war- criminal pootler

 

[Tigerace117]

is a joke compere to your fav- war- criminal pootler

View attachment 67393958

Given that you’ve routinely cheerlead for Nazi collaborators on numerous threads, that’s a laugh.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

This has nothing to do with it. It is because the airplanes are currently, effectively, stolen property. Almost all aircraft flown by airlines are not owned by the airlines, they are owned by leasing companies who in turn lease them out. China doesn't want to be involved in that.

It's plausible, except why should China doesn't give a damn about Western leasing companies? Recovering some reputation after squandering it with threats to Taiwan? Relieving the Western fear of a China/Russia alliance?

I'm not saying it's NOT a reason, but China often has more than one reason. Your reason would play well in the West, my reason would play well in China itself. They have commercial reasons to portray Boeings and Airbuses as unsafe.