Chemtrails...Really?

[calamity]

I imagine this has been discussed before. Well, here's a guy beating his head against a wall pointing out that conspiracy nuts are...well, nuts.

Why I Write About (and Debunk) the Chemtrail Conspiracy Theory

There is a strong argument in the weather community that we should ignore the growing number of people who sincerely believe that there is a worldwide governmental conspiracy to control the weather through, among other means, "chemtrails." Bringing attention to their cause, one may argue, only helps to attract more attention and thereby more adherents to this particular brand of anti-science.

While that is probably true for a small number of people, ignoring the conspiracy theorists only makes them scream louder for attention through the Streisand Effect. The best way to remedy a situation isn't to bottle it up and pretend that it isn't happening, but rather to shine light on it and expose the silliness for what it really is.

Let the YouTube wars begin.

 

[Deuce]

Vast government mind control conspiracy requiring active participation by thousands of pilots to utilize the worst possible method of distributing a chemical agent.

Sounds legit.

Why is it that so many conspiracy theories revolve around the conspirators being stupid?

 

[BmanMcfly]

This has been discussed before... the debunking is that it's all contrails.

I lost the website, but there is one out there that compares, through crowd funded efforts, the appearance of Chem trails to the paths of commercial flights... and simply put, commercial flight paths DO NOT form the checkerboard pattern that is most common with the Chem trails.

Never mind that much of the programs have declassified elements, and it's a technology first used in Vietnam to control where it rained... and it was quite effective, flooding enemy positions while keeping allied bases dry.

That said, there are many planes that do leave contrails, and that is well understood by science... so, it's easy to just claim it's all one effect.

 

[Fledermaus]

This has been discussed before... the debunking is that it's all contrails.

I lost the website, but there is one out there that compares, through crowd funded efforts, the appearance of Chem trails to the paths of commercial flights... and simply put, commercial flight paths DO NOT form the checkerboard pattern that is most common with the Chem trails.

Never mind that much of the programs have declassified elements, and it's a technology first used in Vietnam to control where it rained... and it was quite effective, flooding enemy positions while keeping allied bases dry.

That said, there are many planes that do leave contrails, and that is well understood by science... so, it's easy to just claim it's all one effect.

Wow...

Just, wow.

Targeted rain.

Rabbit hole just got deeper.

 

[BmanMcfly]

Wow...

Just, wow.

Targeted rain.

Rabbit hole just got deeper.

Ya, in 1976 there was a treaty to prohibit the use of weather weapons in warfare.

why would you make a treaty prohibiting something that does not exist?

 

[Fledermaus]

Ya, in 1976 there was a treaty to prohibit the use of weather weapons in warfare.

why would you make a treaty prohibiting something that does not exist?

So, no targeted weather in Vietnam.

 

[BmanMcfly]

So, no targeted weather in Vietnam.

The treaty was written BECAUSE OF WHAT WEATHER WEAPONS DID in Vietnam.

 

[braindrain]

The treaty was written BECAUSE OF WHAT WEATHER WEAPONS DID in Vietnam.

So any proof of this or should we just take your word for it.

 

[Fledermaus]

So any proof of this or should we just take your word for it.

You must take his word for it.... You government shill.

:2razz:

 

[BmanMcfly]

So any proof of this or should we just take your word for it.

1976 weather weapon treaty. Google is your friend. I'm sure you will find a copy of the treaty itself.

 

[braindrain]

1976 weather weapon treaty. Google is your friend. I'm sure you will find a copy of the treaty itself.

Sorry buddy that is not proof of anything other than there was a treaty. Show us proof that these weapons existed and were used in Vietnam as you claimed.

 

[BmanMcfly]

Sorry buddy that is not proof of anything other than there was a treaty. Show us proof that these weapons existed and were used in Vietnam as you claimed.

Right, because we always get into international treaties to discuss things that do not exist.

 

[Oozlefinch]

1976 weather weapon treaty. Google is your friend. I'm sure you will find a copy of the treaty itself.

The idea was to prevent people from creating artificial droughts through the use of techniques such as cloud seeding.

Now for those taht do not know, cloud seeding is a quasi-junk science, in which particles (dry ice, dust, smoke, silver iodine, etc) is placed into clouds, in the hopes of causing them to drop their water cargo as rain sooner then it would naturally. There had been conspiracy claims for years that countries were 'stealing water" from their neighbors, causing the rain to land on their own countries, and causing droughts in the lands of their adversaries.

But nobody really takes this seriously, clud seeding is not all that effective, and all it does at most is change where the rain falls by a couple of miles upwind.

 

[Deuce]

This has been discussed before... the debunking is that it's all contrails.

I lost the website, but there is one out there that compares, through crowd funded efforts, the appearance of Chem trails to the paths of commercial flights... and simply put, commercial flight paths DO NOT form the checkerboard pattern that is most common with the Chem trails.

Yes they do. I do this for a living. I know how planes operate. Parallel flight paths happen all the time. (Also, there's this thing called wind you might not be familiar with)

Never mind that much of the programs have declassified elements, and it's a technology first used in Vietnam to control where it rained... and it was quite effective, flooding enemy positions while keeping allied bases dry.

That said, there are many planes that do leave contrails, and that is well understood by science... so, it's easy to just claim it's all one effect.

High-altitude dispersion is literally the worst possible method of introducing a chemical agent. Both in biology and meteorology.

 

[braindrain]

Right, because we always get into international treaties to discuss things that do not exist.

Yes often treaties are put in place to stop weapons that my be created at sometime in the future. That is how most treaties work.

But you made a rather specific claim about them being used in Vietnam and washing away enemy positions. That should be very easy for you to prove if it happened. Care to try.

 

[BmanMcfly]

The idea was to prevent people from creating artificial droughts through the use of techniques such as cloud seeding.

Now for those taht do not know, cloud seeding is a quasi-junk science, in which particles (dry ice, dust, smoke, silver iodine, etc) is placed into clouds, in the hopes of causing them to drop their water cargo as rain sooner then it would naturally. There had been conspiracy claims for years that countries were 'stealing water" from their neighbors, causing the rain to land on their own countries, and causing droughts in the lands of their adversaries.

But nobody really takes this seriously, clud seeding is not all that effective, and all it does at most is change where the rain falls by a couple of miles upwind.

And where did they get that idea, the year after Vietnam ended?

Sometimes a couple miles upwind is all you need...

 

[BmanMcfly]

Yes often treaties are put in place to stop weapons that my be created at sometime in the future. That is how most treaties work.

But you made a rather specific claim about them being used in Vietnam and washing away enemy positions. That should be very easy for you to prove if it happened. Care to try.

Ya, I've put the interview up with one of the pilots involved in a previous thread, use the search function if you care that much, and he went further, that they had the technology back then, that could grow, kill, and guide hurricanes. That it was proven technologies in the 70's... But only fairly recently declassified.

Btw, I'm not digging up sources for someone who won't even read what is written... If you care, Google is your friend.

Search "father of weather weapons"

 

[Fledermaus]

Ya, I've put the interview up with one of the pilots involved in a previous thread, use the search function if you care that much, and he went further, that they had the technology back then, that could grow, kill, and guide hurricanes. That it was proven technologies in the 70's... But only fairly recently declassified.

Btw, I'm not digging up sources for someone who won't even read what is written... If you care, Google is your friend.

Search "father of weather weapons"

Since Bman once again bombed on the details....

Yes, there was cloud seeding in Vietnam... A far cry from CHEMTRAILS claims.

However, some realities..

It was intended to extend the monsoon season. There was some increased rainfall.

However, Senate Resolution 71 on July 11, 1973 banned the use of cloud seeding as a military tactic so the 1976 agreement was already moot.

 

[BmanMcfly]

Since Bman once again bombed on the details....

Yes, there was cloud seeding in Vietnam... A far cry from CHEMTRAILS claims.

However, some realities..

It was intended to extend the monsoon season. There was some increased rainfall.

However, Senate Resolution 71 on July 11, 1973 banned the use of cloud seeding as a military tactic so the 1976 agreement was already moot.

So, we go from it doesn't exist to I was right all along. Hmm...

what that treaty does not ban is to do this type of weather manipulation on the countries own population for "research purposes"

 

[Fledermaus]

So, we go from it doesn't exist to I was right all along. Hmm...

what that treaty does not ban is to do this type of weather manipulation on the countries own population for "research purposes"

I notice you completely blow off the fact you were wrong on some items...

AND you will notice that I did YOUR work, and did it better.

AND I didn't ignore the fact you were partially right.

That is what adults do. Try it some time.

 

[braindrain]

So, we go from it doesn't exist to I was right all along. Hmm...

what that treaty does not ban is to do this type of weather manipulation on the countries own population for "research purposes"

No you are not right. Please show where this cloud seeding washed away any enemy positions. The military tried many different things during 50s to the 70s. Some of them worked. A lot of others didn't. No one in this thread ever said that zero weather experiments were conducted. What was said was it was not a weapon that washed away enemy positions.
Show us these washed away enemy positions. You just do what most CTers do. You take a tiny thread of truth and attempted to morph it into something it's not.

 

[BmanMcfly]

No you are not right. Please show where this cloud seeding washed away any enemy positions. The military tried many different things during 50s to the 70s. Some of them worked. A lot of others didn't. No one in this thread ever said that zero weather experiments were conducted. What was said was it was not a weapon that washed away enemy positions.
Show us these washed away enemy positions. You just do what most CTers do. You take a tiny thread of truth and attempted to morph it into something it's not.

So, you accept that you are shifting goal posts?

 

[braindrain]

So, you accept that you are shifting goal posts?

Your first post about this was about how it washed out enemy positions and kept US bases dry. Then you said the treaty was proof of how effective those weapons were. We are still waiting on proof of how effective those weapons were and proof that get washed out enemy positions.

 

[BmanMcfly]

Your first post about this was about how it washed out enemy positions and kept US bases dry. Then you said the treaty was proof of how effective those weapons were. We are still waiting on proof of how effective those weapons were and proof that get washed out enemy positions.

But the only goal posts were to show that such a thing exists.

Beyond that use the search function.

 

[Fledermaus]

But the only goal posts were to show that such a thing exists.

Beyond that use the search function.

Flooding enemy bases while keeping American base a dry..,.

In a monsoon.