Chavez Says He May Seek 'Indefinite' Re-election

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Pinochet brought tyranny and serfdom to the Chileans, Mr. Allende did not.

No Pinochet brought market capitalism and eventually truly free state to the Chileans by destroying by destroying the communists who sought destroy the Republic and erect a totalitarian communist dicatorship.

I very much have a clue. These actions had been taken to stop tyrants like Pinochet and I wished there had been more of them to reach this objective.

No those actions were taken to erect a totalitarian communist dictatorship.

I don't know of any proof that Mr. Allende wanted to institute a dictatorship of proletariat.

Well then obviously you didn't read the many violations of the Chilean Constitution under the Allende regime, they all point to one thing; his continued attempts to bring communism about in Chile.

But don't take my word for it let's ask Allende:

"The Pinochet File," by Peter Kornbluh (editor), plays up the US funding of Chilean opposition groups and the anti-Allende sentiment among many in the US government, while completely ignoring the poisonous policies of the Marxists.

Certainly, the 1970 scheme was a blunder. I am tempted to say that US funding of the opposition groups also was a mistake, since this made the US a more convenient scapegoat. But it was not necessarily a mistake. After all, without the funding, the opposition could have been weaker, and Allende could have had a better shot at achieving his goal of "total, scientific Marxist socialism."

Yes, those were Allende's words. He said them early in his administration during conversations with French leftist RÈgis Debray. Allende added, "As for the bourgeois state, we are seeking to overcome it, to overthrow it." Regarding his allowance of democratic guarantees, they were only temporary - a "tactical necessity" for "the time being."

 

[LeftyHenry]

No Pinochet brought market capitalism and eventually truly free state to the Chileans by destroying by destroying the communists who sought destroy the Republic and erect a totalitarian communist dicatorship.

the irony; Chileans have now elected the a candidate from the same party as Allende to president. Guess it's not free anymore, right? :roll:

Pinochet destroyed 210 or something years of Chilean democracy by establishing a military dictatorship which purged people who tried to set up unions. Pinochet was a fascist. You are a fascist symapathizer.

You are trying to :spin: the facts Trajan.

Allende = democracy

Pinochet = fascism

it's as simple as that. And you've sided with fascism.

No those actions were taken to erect a totalitarian communist dictatorship.

Chill out with the rhetoric. Chile was and is made up of about 90% peasants and workers. Chile needed socialism more than any other country. It's people were living off crubs and the country was America's Bitch. Allende erected programs to give free healthcare and education to the populace along with food for school children. Tell me those things are evil.

Well then obviously you didn't read the many violations of the Chilean Constitution under the Allende regime, they all point to one thing; his continued attempts to bring communism about in Chile.

But don't take my word for it let's ask Allende:

:roll: ya and the American Revolution was 'constitutional'. It was a democratic revolution. The exploited were being given opportunites which they had never dreamed of. Why do you hate the working men and woman of the world Trajan? Why do you prefer purges to peace? low wages to free education? Fascism to Democracy?

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

the irony; Chileans have now elected the a candidate from the same party as Allende to president. Guess it's not free anymore, right? :roll:

Bullshit Allende was the head of the Unidad Popular which consisted of a coalition of the Communist, Socialist, Radical, and Social Democrat parties, the socialist party today in Chile are third wayers but Allende was clearly a strict Marxist not a third way socialist. The socialist party of Chile is far more capitalist today than it was under Allende's time:

Chile has a market-oriented economy characterized by a high level of foreign trade. During the early 1990s, Chile's reputation as a role model for economic reform was strengthened when the democratic government of Patricio AYLWIN - which took over from the military in 1990 - deepened the economic reform initiated by the military government. Growth in real GDP averaged 8% during 1991-97, but fell to half that level in 1998 because of tight monetary policies implemented to keep the current account deficit in check and because of lower export earnings - the latter a product of the global financial crisis. A severe drought exacerbated the recession in 1999, reducing crop yields and causing hydroelectric shortfalls and electricity rationing, and Chile experienced negative economic growth for the first time in more than 15 years. Despite the effects of the recession, Chile maintained its reputation for strong financial institutions and sound policy that have given it the strongest sovereign bond rating in South America. By the end of 1999, exports and economic activity had begun to recover, and growth rebounded to 4.2% in 2000. Growth fell back to 3.1% in 2001 and 2.1% in 2002, largely due to lackluster global growth and the devaluation of the Argentine peso. Chile's economy began a slow recovery in 2003, growing 3.2%, and accelerated to 6.1% in 2004-05, while Chile maintained a low rate of inflation. GDP growth benefited from high copper prices, solid export earnings (particularly forestry, fishing, and mining), and stepped-up foreign direct investment. Unemployment, however, remains stubbornly high. Chile deepened its longstanding commitment to trade liberalization with the signing of a free trade agreement with the US, which took effect on 1 January 2004. Chile signed a free trade agreement with China in November 2005, and it already has several trade deals signed with other nations and blocs, including the European Union, Mercosur, South Korea, and Mexico. Record-high copper prices helped to strengthen the peso to a 5½-year high, as of December 2005, and will boost GDP in 2006.

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ci.html

Pinochet destroyed 210 or something years of Chilean democracy

No that is what Allende did by consistently violating the Chilean Constitution to establish his own totalitarian Communist state.

Allende = democracy

Pinochet = fascism

Allende = Communist dictatorship and the road to serfdom

Pinochet = Free Market Capitalism and the road to freedom

Chill out with the rhetoric. Chile was and is made up of about 90% peasants and workers. Chile needed socialism more than any other country. It's people were living off crubs and the country was America's Bitch.

Bullshit Allende's policies brought nothing but economic hardship and mass shortages to the Chilean people.

:roll: ya and the American Revolution was 'constitutional'. It was a democratic revolution.

Ya and Chile was Democratic before Allende his revolution was Communist and it spit in the face of the Democratic ideals exhibited in a Constitutional Republic.

The exploited were being given opportunites which they had never dreamed of.

Bullshit Allende brought nothing but tyranny and massive shortages to the Chilean people.

 

[Volker]

No Pinochet brought market capitalism and eventually truly free state to the Chileans by destroying by destroying the communists who sought destroy the Republic and erect a totalitarian communist dicatorship.

Pinochet brought tyranny and terror.

No those actions were taken to erect a totalitarian communist dictatorship.

A democracy have to be defended sometimes, this is what Mr. Allende did.

Well then obviously you didn't read the many violations of the Chilean Constitution under the Allende regime, they all point to one thing; his continued attempts to bring communism about in Chile.

But don't take my word for it let's ask Allende:

Don't you get suspicious, if someone takes some words out of context?
I know I do.

 

[LeftyHenry]

Bullshit Allende was the head of the Unidad Popular which consisted of a coalition of the Communist, Socialist, Radical, and Social Democrat parties, the socialist party today in Chile are third wayers but Allende was clearly a strict Marxist not a third way socialist. The socialist party of Chile is far more capitalist today than it was under Allende's time

The party in power is supposedly socialist. Of course it's more moderate because it doesn't want a US coup against it :roll:

No that is what Allende did by consistently violating the Chilean Constitution to establish his own totalitarian Communist state.

So ****ing what if he violated the constitution? What did Pinochet do? Not not break the constitution?

Allende = Communist dictatorship and the road to serfdom

Pinochet = Free Market Capitalism and the road to freedom

:lol: no Allende = democracy.

Pinochet = fascism

You = Fascist-symapthizer who doesn't give a **** about democracy unless it's pro-capitalism

Despite declining economic indicators, Allende's Popular Unity coalition actually increased its vote to 43% in the parliamentary elections early in 1973.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende

Explain that to me. If it was such a tyranny, how were there parliamentry elections?

Maybe you don't know what tyranny means and are just throwing around because our lord and savior President George W. Bush has said it alot...

Bullshit Allende's policies brought nothing but economic hardship and mass shortages to the Chilean people.

Nope. Only to the rich 'beverly hills folk'. The working class and farmers living conditions increased dramatically. Healthcare, education, and democracy was replaced by slavery, fascism, and spy networks thanks to Pinochet.

Ya and Chile was Democratic before Allende his revolution was Communist and it spit in the face of the Democratic ideals exhibited in a Constitutional Republic.

You completely ignored what I said and instead sidetracked. Chile needed a revolution just like America needed one; **** wasn't working. In chile's case, the people were living in houses made out of twigs.

You're babbling incomprehensivly now. Please stop before you lose any credibility you had.

Of course there was democracy. Haven't you ever heard of the Empty Pot march? When a bunch of rich woman who protested that there wasn't enough potatoes in the supermarket by banging pots and pans and attacking supporters of Allende?

Bullshit Allende brought nothing but tyranny and massive shortages to the Chilean people.

Tyranny? There is no such thing as tyranny when in 1972 there were normal democratic elections. Tyranny is Pinochet. Tyranny is fascism and your support for it. Tyranny is the violations that Pinochet made to the constitution. Your so dillusional the **** you're spewing doesn't even make sense! A military dictator is more constitutional then a democratically elected president. :roll: give it up Trajan, your trying to prove that a tomato is the same thing as a strawberry; it won't work.

You are speaking in hyperbole, and it makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about.

The shortages, which came in late 1972 after a year+ of great economic success (reduced inflation), was due to massive increased consumption. Here is what Allende said about the shortages all though you'll probably dismiss it as some tyrannical propaganda.

"There has been a temporary shortage of some products, owing to the increased buying power of the masses, owing to the tendency of certain sectors to buy more than they need. If they need three or five kilos of meat, and they find some, they buy ten or twelve kilos and store it in their freezers. There is psychological pressure for people to buy more than they need. We also ought to point out that there is speculation going on in several districts. . . . In the case of meat, for example, at the beginning of this administration more than 200,000 head of cattle left Chile" (shipped out by latifundistas to provoke economic chaos on a large scale).

http://www.rrojasdatabank.org/murder30.htm#31

The preliminary statistics of November 1971 showed that consumption of poultry, pork, sugar, and potatoes had increased by 16, 18, 37, and 55 percent respectively. On the other hand, the productive apparatus had reached its limit. A market shortage of those products was affecting large numbers of office workers, medium-sized and small businessmen, and their families who were not eligible for the direct supply line through unions and union federations.

 

[Red_Dave]

Re: Broken records

Extreme situations call for extreme actions, Once the danger had subsided Democracy was restored and Pinochet stepped down.

What danger was there that required the murder of thousands of people? What danger was the current preisident of chile who was tortured under pinochet if you hail her as the leader of a free chile?

 

[Hatuey]

Pinochet = Free Market Capitalism and the road to freedom

After the military's seizure of power, Pinochet engaged in brutal political repression, aiming to destroy all remaining support for the defeated Popular Unity (PU) government. In October 1973, at least 70 people were killed by the Caravan of Death. Almost immediately, the junta banned all the leftist parties that had constituted Allende's UP coalition. Much of the regime's violence was directed toward those it viewed as socialist or Marxist sympathizers, though dissidents who spoke out against the government were also persecuted. Those murdered during Pinochet's 17 years in power are said to have "been disappeared." It is not known exactly how many people were killed by government and military forces during the 17 years that he was in power, but the Rettig Commission listed 2,095 deaths and 1,102 "disappearances.", with the vast majority of victims coming from the opposition to Pinochet at the hands of the state security apparatus. Torture was also commonly used against dissidents. Thousands of Chileans were expelled from and fled the country to escape the regime. In 2004, the National Commission on Political Prisoners and Torture produced the Valech Report after interviewing an estimated 35,000 people who claimed to have been abused by the regime. About 28,000 of those testimonies were regarded as legitimate. According to the Commission, more than half of the arrests occurred in the months immediately following the coup (approximately 18,000 of those testifying claimed they were detained between September and December of 1973).

It was truly free.

 

[Flea]

Not sure what crack pipe Trajan is smoking, but why don't you go and ask some Chileans about the BS you are spewing. I have. You might learn something bro.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

The party in power is supposedly socialist. Of course it's more moderate because it doesn't want a US coup against it :roll:

No it's more moderate because it's not the same party, it's a third way party rather than a Communist Marxist party as it was under Allende. Furthermore; your assertions that the U.S. was responsible for the coup is a myth Pinochet was ordered to remove Allende from power by the Chilean Chamber of Deputies.

So ****ing what if he violated the constitution?

Because he did so in order to create a totalitarian dictatorship.

What did Pinochet do?

Saved the Republica de Chile from a Communist take over.

Not not break the constitution?

He restored Democracy in the Republic after the threat had been eliminated.

:lol: no Allende = democracy.

No Allende = Communist totalitarian state.

Pinochet = fascism

Pinochet = savior of the Republic and defender of the Constitution.

You = Fascist-symapthizer who doesn't give a **** about democracy unless it's pro-capitalism

That's because capitalism leads to Democracy while communism leads to totalitarianism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvador_Allende

Explain that to me. If it was such a tyranny, how were there parliamentry elections?

Well when your party has siezed control of the media and the educational system and turned them into state propaganda outlets it's not allthat hard to formulate public opinion.

Maybe you don't know what tyranny means and are just throwing around because our lord and savior President George W. Bush has said it alot...

I know that when you shread the Constitution of a Representative Democratic Republic in order to set up a totalitarian communist dictorship and your system lacks an impeachment procedure the only way to save said Republic is through the use of the military.

Nope. Only to the rich 'beverly hills folk'. The working class and farmers living conditions increased dramatically.

A) Bull the only thing that Allende's economic policies brought to Chile was stagflation and mass shortages for everyone not just the rich folks.

B) One who would sacrifice liberty for temporary security deserves neither.

Healthcare, education, and democracy was replaced by slavery, fascism, and spy networks thanks to Pinochet.

No actually Pinochet save the Republic from a Communist takeover and unlike other nations in Latin America where socialism was allowed to fester (Cuba) Chile today is truly free rather than a totalitarian Communist dictatorship, the ends in this case justified the means.

You completely ignored what I said and instead sidetracked. Chile needed a revolution just like America needed one; **** wasn't working. In chile's case, the people were living in houses made out of twigs.

You have no idea what you're talking about Allende destroyed the Chilean economy. During his 3 years in power their were massive shortages of common goods and severe economic recession but when Pinochet siezed power in the same period of time he drammatically improved the Chilean Economy so much so that it was labeled the "Miracle of Chile."


You're babbling incomprehensivly now. Please stop before you lose any credibility you had.

Of course there was democracy. Haven't you ever heard of the Empty Pot march? When a bunch of rich woman who protested that there wasn't enough potatoes in the supermarket by banging pots and pans and attacking supporters of Allende?

A) Everyone went hungry in Allende's Chile not just the rich due to his state take overs of farm lands which caused a drammatic decrease of their crop outputs.

B) Protests don't really matter when the media has become a state propaganda apparatus.

Tyranny? There is no such thing as tyranny when in 1972 there were normal democratic elections.

Tyranny of the masses is not Democracy, when the will of the Majority is followed and yet the rights of the minority are not guaranteed by the Constitution as was the case in Allende's Chile then that is not Democracy that is the perversion of Democracy.

The shortages, which came in late 1972 after a year+ of great economic success (reduced inflation), was due to massive increased consumption. Here is what Allende said about the shortages all though you'll probably dismiss it as some tyrannical propaganda.



http://www.rrojasdatabank.org/murder30.htm#31

He's full of it; crop output was reduced due to state takeovers of the farms it was not due to increased consumption.

While during the first year economic performance increased the by the end of that year after he was able to implement more of his economic policies the situation reversed and by '72 the economy was in crisis. Due to these shortages coupled with the inablility of wages to keep up with the high inflation opposition to the government rose sharply and the country descended into chaos.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Pinochet brought tyranny and terror.

Stopping a Communist takeover is not an easy task. Regardless Pinochet has not been convicted of any crime by the Chilean judiciary, he has been charged but has pleaded not-guilty so I'll wait to see how the trial turns out.

A democracy have to be defended sometimes, this is what Mr. Allende did.

Allende was not trying to save Democracy he was trying to destroy it by violating the Chilean Constitution on numerous occassions in order to establish a Communist state.

Don't you get suspicious, if someone takes some words out of context?
I know I do.

Christain Science Monitor is a repubtable news paper.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

It was truly free.

Rather than becoming a Communist totalitarian dictatorship as Castros Cuba is today; due to the harsh measures (which he has yet to be found guilty of BTW) taken by Pinochet in order to stop a Communist take over Chile is now free today. The ends in this case justified the means.

 

[Hatuey]

Rather than becoming a Communist totalitarian dictatorship as Castros Cuba is today; due to the harsh measures (which he has yet to be found guilty of BTW) taken by Pinochet in order to stop a Communist take over Chile is now free today. The ends in this case justified the means.

Are you out of your friggin mind? Killing thousands doesnt justify anything. Thats like saying Bin Laden killing 3,000 American is justified because he wanst us all to become slaves to his version of Islam. MURDER IS NEVER JUSTIFIED. Trajan I think you have freedom and a totalitarian regime confused. In freedom it doesnt matter what your ideas are. You're allowed to have them. In a totalitarian regime if you belive in democracy, communism but you're going against the regime you're wrong.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Are you out of your friggin mind? Killing thousands doesnt justify anything. Thats like saying Bin Laden killing 3,000 American is justified because he wanst us all to become slaves to his version of Islam. MURDER IS NEVER JUSTIFIED. Trajan I think you have freedom and a totalitarian regime confused. In freedom it doesnt matter what your ideas are. You're allowed to have them. In a totalitarian regime if you belive in democracy, communism but you're going against the regime you're wrong.

So right now if for example Bush committed the same aggregious violations of the Constitution that Allende did in Chile and it took the milititary to remove him and his supporters from power and to stop a Communist take over of this country you wouldn't support it?

 

[LeftyHenry]

Rather than becoming a Communist totalitarian dictatorship as Castros Cuba is today; due to the harsh measures (which he has yet to be found guilty of BTW) taken by Pinochet in order to stop a Communist take over Chile is now free today. The ends in this case justified the means.

That's the dumbest arguement ever. That's like arguing that by establishing monarchy in Britan, Britan would eventually become democratic or Lenin's revolution would eventually become capitalist.

Pinochet killed thousands if not millions and made no improvements to working class living standards. He actually abolished minimum wage. He was a fascist and you support him.

 

[Hatuey]

So right now if for example Bush committed the same aggregious violations of the Constitution that Allende did in Chile and it took the milititary to remove him and his supporters from power and to stop a Communist take over of this country you wouldn't support it?

lol what agressions did Allende comit? Did he murder thousands upon thousands of chileans to further his goals? Did he crush his opposition? Au contraire, he was praised by Fidel Castro because he achieved his goal to become president without violence, without bloodshed and without murders.

Here is Pinochet's legacy :

This debate was revisited after Pinochet's arrest in 1998. At that time, the General said of the 1973 coup, “We only set ourselves the task of transforming Chile into a democratic society of free men and women." [4] His supporters made similar claims. Former Prime Minister Thatcher, for example, thanked the General for "bringing democracy to Chile". [5] When in power, however, Pinochet gave a series of speeches that rather clearly indicated that the 1973 coup targeted not only Allende's Popular Unity government, but Chilean democracy itself, which the General saw as hopelessly flawed. In wording that Pinochet repeated several times in various speeches, he claimed that Chile had been “slave and victim of the Congress since 1925, and slave and victim of the political parties.” Arguing for an "organic" type of democracy, Pinochet argued “Merely formal democracy dissolves itself, victim of a demagogy that substitutes simple, unattainable promises for social justice and economic prosperity.” Democracy would inevitably result in a marxist dictatorship, according to his analysis. Chilean democracy, therefore, was “progressively socializing in its economic experiments.... Those who thought they could detain or control this evolution... were given proof under the Marxist regime of their impotence and incomprehensible lack of vision.” (Pinochet, “Patria y Democracia”, 1983, Santiago, Andres Bello)

There have been several detailed reports which describe the human rights abuses carried out by the Pinochet regime. In January 2005, the Chilean Army accepted institutional responsibility for past abuses. Other institutions also accept that abuses took place, but blame them on individuals, rather than official policy. Lucía Pinochet Hiriart, Augusto Pinochet's eldest daughter, said the use of torture during his 1973–90 regime was "barbaric and without justification", after seeing the Valech Report.

On August 23, 2006, Reuters reported that Chile's Supreme Court stripped the former dictator Augusto of immunity from prosecution in a notorious human rights case, raising hopes of victims that he may finally face trial for abuses during his 17-year rule. The ruling upheld a lower court decision in May that removed the immunity that had been granted him as a former head of state. The Chilean lower court said the retired general, who is 88, could be charged in connection with the disappearance of 19 leftists in the mid-1970's as part of Operation Condor, a joint effort by South America's military dictators to help each other wipe out dissidents. The ruling is the latest in six years of back-and-forth court decisions in hundreds of human rights cases in which General Pinochet has been accused of ordering the secret police to kidnap, torture and kill leftists.

17 year rule.

human rights abuses.

thousands dead.

thousands disappeared.

Great Legacy. Trajan I think you have democracy , dictatorship and facism confused.

 

[Flea]

Trajan, did you just side step a challenge?

Reading books only gets you so far. Sometime you have to step out and live the life, or walk the walk, as it were.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

That's the dumbest arguement ever. That's like arguing that by establishing monarchy in Britan, Britan would eventually become democratic or Lenin's revolution would eventually become capitalist.

Whenever a country adopts free market capitalism Democracy follows and whenever a country adobts communism totalitarianism follows.

Pinochet killed thousands if not millions

Millions? You have 0 credibility.

and made no improvements to working class living standards. He actually abolished minimum wage. He was a fascist and you support him.

Is that why the vast majority of Pinochet's economic reforms continue to this day and Chileans have the highest living standards in Latin America?

 

[LeftyHenry]

Whenever a country adopts free market capitalism Democracy follows and whenever a country adobts communism totalitarianism follows.

That's ****ing stupid. You can't even define communism or socialism but w/e. Russia is and has been capitalist for a long time. Using your dillusional logic, so called 'communism' led to that

Millions? You have 0 credibility.

It's called Hyperbole. I guess that since it was only like 100,000 then it's more justified :roll:. I have 0 credibility? I'm not the guy advidly supporting fascism and the destruction of Chile's democracy.

Is that why the vast majority of Pinochet's economic reforms continue to this day and Venezuelans have the highest living standards in Latin America?

Well I don't support Chavez but he has decreased poverty an astonishing amount in his 6 years. Down from 40 or higher to 30%.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

lol what agressions did Allende comit? Did he murder thousands upon thousands of chileans to further his goals? Did he crush his opposition? Au contraire, he was praised by Fidel Castro because he achieved his goal to become president without violence, without bloodshed and without murders.

The MIR was responsible for many deaths as well, and if Allende was allowed to retain power it is all but certain that his human rights record would be on par with any other Marxist regime.

Here is Pinochet's legacy :



17 year rule.

human rights abuses.

thousands dead.

thousands disappeared.

Great Legacy. Trajan I think you have democracy , dictatorship and facism confused.

Pinochet's legacy:

defeated a communist takeover of Chile.

Chileans have the highest living standards in Latin America.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

That's ****ing stupid. You can't even define communism or socialism but w/e. Russia is and has been capitalist for a long time. Using your dillusional logic, so called 'communism' led to that

Ya and Russia is a Democracy and the last elections were declared "free and fair" by an international observation mission run by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe's Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights.

It's called Hyperbole. I guess that since it was only like 100,000 then it's more justified :roll:. I have 0 credibility? I'm not the guy advidly supporting fascism and the destruction of Chile's democracy.

The Rettig report proves that no more than 3,000 were killed which is understandable due to the terrorist attacks committed by the MIR and the FPMR. Allende killed Chilean Democracy through his attempted Marxist takeover. Pinochet saved the Republic from communist totalitarianism.

Well I don't support Chavez but he has decreased poverty an astonishing amount in his 6 years. Down from 40 or higher to 30%.

I mistyped I meant Chileans not Venezuelans thanks to Pinochet's economic reforms Chileans have the highest living standards in latin america.

 

[LeftyHenry]

Ya and Russia is a Democracy and the last elections were declared "free and fair" by an international observation mission run by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe's Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights.

Ya what about you're favorite and most unbiased source; Freedom House! They say there is no democracy!

The Rettig report proves that no more than 3,000 were killed which is understandable due to the terrorist attacks committed by the MIR and the FPMR. Allende killed Chilean Democracy through his attempted Marxist takeover. Pinochet saved the Republic from communist totalitarianism.

That figure isn't correct at all and Allende WAS democracy. He was ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE. It was democracy. Listen to yourself. You have no clue what the **** you're talking about.

You keep ignoring the fact that there were 1972 elections free and fair.

You also keep ignoring the fact that democracy is not what you want it to be. It's what the people choose. What you're advocating is fascism.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Ya what about you're favorite and most unbiased source; Freedom House! They say there is no democracy!

While true that Putin has tightened his control over the country it is by no means comparable to the tyranny of the totalitarian soviet regime.

That figure isn't correct at all

You're saying that the most authoritive source on the human rights abuses committed by the Pinochet regime is wrong?

and Allende WAS democracy. He was ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE.

He never won a majority only a plurality just like the Nazi party in the Weimar Republic. It is not how one comes into power it is what one does with it once he has it and through his systematic violations of the Chilean Constitution Allende is responsible for the death of Chilean Democracy.

It was democracy. Listen to yourself. You have no clue what the **** you're talking about.

You keep ignoring the fact that there were 1972 elections free and fair.

You also keep ignoring the fact that democracy is not what you want it to be. It's what the people choose. What you're advocating is fascism.

No a system which allows the majority to violate the natural right of the individual to be secure in his property is fascism. Marxism killed Democracy in Chile.

 

[LeftyHenry]

While true that Putin has tightened his control over the country it is by no means comparable to the tyranny of the totalitarian soviet regime.

Freedom House has given Russia it's lowest color; PURPLE, or unfree.

He never won a majority only a plurality just like the Nazi party in the Weimar Republic. It is not how one comes into power it is what one does with it once he has it and through his systematic violations of the Chilean Constitution Allende is responsible for the death of Chilean Democracy.

You mean like Bush? Anyhow. The Chilean constitution needed to be violated if it meant providing healthcare, education, food, and shelter for the masses.

There was democracy under Allende. You're a bambling fool. Pinochet and capitalism are responsible for the death of democracy.

No a system which allows the majority to violate the natural right of the individual to be secure in his property is fascism. Marxism killed Democracy in Chile.

THERE WERE FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS IN 1972 LOOK IT UP!! YOU'RE A JOKE!!

The natural right of right of the individual is aquedate;

food
water
shelter
clothing
free healthcare
free education through college
a job
and retirement

Its as simple as that.

 

[Hatuey]

While true that Putin has tightened his control over the country it is by no means comparable to the tyranny of the totalitarian soviet regime.

You're saying that the most authoritive source on the human rights abuses committed by the Pinochet regime is wrong?

He never won a majority only a plurality just like the Nazi party in the Weimar Republic. It is not how one comes into power it is what one does with it once he has it and through his systematic violations of the Chilean Constitution Allende is responsible for the death of Chilean Democracy.

No a system which allows the majority to violate the natural right of the individual to be secure in his property is fascism. Marxism killed Democracy in Chile.

SANTIAGO, Chile - Former dictator Gen. Augusto Pinochet was indicted Friday for abuses at one of his regime's most infamous secret prisons, where President Michelle Bachelet and her mother were once held and mistreated, a lawyer said.

Judge Alejandro Solis said he would make an announcement Monday, when Pinochet "will be legally notified" of the indictment for the abuses at Villa Grimaldi.

But Eduardo Contreras, a lawyer for the relatives of the victims, confirmed the indictment Friday and said he expects the trial will progress "until Pinochet can be sentenced."

Local media published details of the indictment, saying the 90-year-old former strongman will face charges for one homicide, 36 kidnappings and 23 cases of torture at the prison used by his secret police in the first five years of his 1973-90 dictatorship. The reports said the indictment includes an order for Pinochet to remain under house arrest at his suburban Santiago mansion.

Solis, who questioned Pinochet for over an hour earlier this month, has said Pinochet's health, including his mental condition, will not prevent him from standing trial, and that "he is lucid enough to understand the consequences of what he says."

During the questioning, Solis said, Pinochet said he does not remember and is not responsible for the actions of his security forces at the secret prison where according to official reports 4,500 people were held and tortured and more than 200 disappeared.

Previous attempts to try Pinochet have failed after the courts dropped the charges on health grounds. He has been diagnosed a mild dementia resulting from several strokes. He also suffers from diabetes and arthritis and needs a pacemaker.

He is under indictment in one human rights case and on tax evasion related to his multimillion-dollar bank accounts abroad.

The case of the bank accounts was briefly complicated this week after a report that 9.2 tons of gold in the Pinochet's name had been discovered at the HSBC Bank in Hong Kong. The bank, however, said the documents showing the alleged deposit were fake.

Bachelet, then 22-year-old medical student and member of the Socialist Party, was held at Villa Grimaldi with her mother for several weeks in 1975 before being allowed to go into exile.

The president has said they were abused there, including being kept blindfolded for days, but has given no other details. Her mother said that at the Villa "I was kept for a week in a box, blindfolded, tied up, without food."

Bachelet earlier this month paid an emotional visit to the site in Santiago that is now a memorial park honoring those who suffered there.

Wow. Big Surprise.

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

You mean like Bush? Anyhow. The Chilean constitution needed to be violated if it meant providing healthcare, education, food, and shelter for the masses.

If providing healthcare, education etc is all that Allende did then I wouldn't have a problem with it, however, Allende's violations of the Constitution amounted to the establishment of a totalitarian Communist dicatorship. Not only that but Allende's policies brought nothing but economic hardship and mass shortages to Chile.

There was democracy under Allende. You're a bambling fool. Pinochet and capitalism are responsible for the death of democracy.

No Marxism killed Democracy in Chile.

The natural right of right of the individual is aquedate;

food
water
shelter
clothing
free healthcare
free education through college
a job
and retirement

Its as simple as that.

Those who sacricice liberty for temporary security deserve neither. Oh and Allende's policies brought nothing but economic disaster and hunger to the Chilean people.