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Can you be a true Catholic if you're pro-abortion?

Josie

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I'm not Catholic, but I have a good friend that is. We had a discussion with some other people online about Catholics and abortion. She said there's no way a devout Catholic could be for abortion because the Pope stands against it.

What do you think?
 

Chuz Life

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I'm not Catholic, but I have a good friend that is. We had a discussion with some other people online about Catholics and abortion. She said there's no way a devout Catholic could be for abortion because the Pope stands against it.

What do you think?
I'll just never understand why someone needs "god in their life" to recognize the fact than an abortion kills a child.

I (personally) don't need "God" in my life to see it for what it is and it drives me nuts when people bring religion into it.

Sorry if it offends, Mellie.... But I dread threads like these.
 

MaggieD

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You can be a good Catholic as long as you don't GET an abortion, in my opinion. If God was sending people straight to hell for what they thought, heaven would be empty.
 

Josie

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Chuz, the question isn't implying that you must believe in God or go to church or do anything religious to be pro-life. The question is a 180 from that. The question was can you be a Catholic and be for abortion?

I absolutely believe you can be pro-life and not religious.
 

Josie

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You can be a good Catholic as long as you don't GET an abortion, in my opinion. If God was sending people straight to hell for what they thought, heaven would be empty.
Good point. However, since I believe in forgiveness (not sure how the Catholic church is about this), if the person is truly repentant for what she had done to her child, she will be forgiven and the slate wiped clean.
 
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Chuz Life

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Chuz, the question isn't implying that you must believe in God or go to church or do anything religious to be pro-life. The question is a 180 from that. The question was can you be a Catholic and be for abortion?

I absolutely believe you can be pro-life and not religious.
Thanks, and I did see that you are taking the opposite angle than the one most people take.

I just cringe when I see religion anywhere NEAR the debate.

It's my opinion and observation that there are places where science and religion intersect... and "abortion" is one of those intersections.

A person can easily be %100 anti-abortion for religious reasons only and arrive at the very same conclusions (for banning it) that a person such as myself arrives at by a secular, scientific line of reasoning. And of course there's plenty of people who blend the two.

I Chuz to keep religion out of it completely (personally and publically) because all too often the debate comes to be about "who's forcing their morals on who" and crap like that.
 
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Orion

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Can you please learn the difference between pro-CHOICE and pro-abortion? One is a real political philosophy, the latter is a made up term by people who don't understand the former.
 

Josie

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Can you please learn the difference between pro-CHOICE and pro-abortion? One is a real political philosophy, the latter is a made up term by people who don't understand the former.
Would you rather I say pro-choosing abortion?

P.S. That's my very favorite Lincoln quote. Best. Ever.
 

Orion

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Would you rather I say pro-choosing abortion?

P.S. That's my very favorite Lincoln quote. Best. Ever.
I would rather you say what it is, which is pro-choice, since that encompasses the right to choose an abortion if you want. Pro-abortion means that you push abortion whenever possible.
 

Chuz Life

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Can you please learn the difference between pro-CHOICE and pro-abortion? One is a real political philosophy, the latter is a made up term by people who don't understand the former.
Pro-abortion simply is a shortened way of saying "pro-choice with regards towards elective abortion remaining legal"

The anacronym "PCWRTEARL" just doesn't cut it.

So, we shorten it sometimes to "Pro-abortion."
 
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Josie

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I don't like getting into a debate about semantics. We all know the definitions of abortion stances.

Now...back to Catholics...
 

MaggieD

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Good point. However, since I believe in forgiveness (not sure how the Catholic church is about this), if the person is truly repentant for what she had done to her child, she will be forgiven and the slate wiped clean.
You're absolutely correct....as long as she goes to confession or receives absolution before she dies. Slate wiped clean. That's what they believe.

Not for birth control, though. Can't use it. And if you do, you would be considered living in a continual state of mortal sin. In order for the priest to say, "I forgive you insomuch as God forgives you," or some-such, you have to be 'true' in your heart that you don't intend to do it again. If that's not how you feel, a devout Catholic wouldn't even go to confession -- and, further, be denied the sacrament of holy communion and thus, unless one received the last rites, be condemned to hell for using a rubber.
 
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Chuz Life

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I would rather you say what it is, which is pro-choice, since that encompasses the right to choose an abortion if you want. Pro-abortion means that you push abortion whenever possible.
The vague term "Pro-choice" also implies that a person who calls themself "pro-choice" would be pro-choice in all situations where a choice can be made,... School choice, where to drill for oil, what kind of gun to buy or carry, where a person can smoke, display of religious materials, etc....

How do you feel about "PCOA" as a compromise? "pro-choice on abortion?"
 
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Josie

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You're absolutely correct....as long as she goes to confession or receives absolution before she dies. Slate wiped clean. That's what they believe.

Not for birth control, though. Can't use it. And if you do, you would be considered living in a continual state of mortal sin. In order for the priest to say, "I forgive you insomuch as God forgives you," or some-such, you have to be 'true' in your heart that you don't intend to do it again. If that's not how you feel, a devout Catholic wouldn't even go to confession -- and, further, be denied the sacrament of holy communion and thus, unless one received the last rites, be condemned to hell for using a rubber.
I thought I learned once that they don't believe in birth control. Do they also believe you shouldn't take any other medications?
 

Dezaad

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It seems to me that it would be entirely possible to be Catholic in every other belief but simply disagree with the Catholic interpretation of the Bible that a human being arises at conception. Would this type of person still be a Catholic?
 

MaggieD

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I thought I learned once that they don't believe in birth control. Do they also believe you shouldn't take any other medications?
Oh, no. They believe in doctors and medicine.

If you can get by the marriage/divorce/raise the kids Catholic/birth control/abortion/only Catholics get communion/Mary is sinless stuff/Oh! And the Pope thing, the Catholic Church isn't that different from other Christian religions. All paths to God.
 
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Josie

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Oh, no. They believe in doctors and medicine.

If you can get by the marriage/divorce/raise the kids Catholic/birth control/abortion/only Catholics get communion/Mary is sinless stuff/Oh! And the Pope thing, the Catholic Church isn't that different from other Christian religions.
Infant baptism
Praying through Saints
Creating "Saints"
The Pope

There are a LOT of differences between Catholics and, say, Baptists. But you're right ... other than those things.... :)
 

Orion

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I don't like getting into a debate about semantics. We all know the definitions of abortion stances.

Now...back to Catholics...
I know you don't, and I'm not trying to hijack this thread. Just thought I would insert the correct value into this thread before it takes off.

Enjoy.
 

molten_dragon

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I guess it depends on how you define 'true catholic'. If you mean slavishly following every single law laid down by the pope/bible/whatever, then I would bet that there are very, very few people out there that could be considered 'true catholics'.
 

iangb

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I guess it depends on how you define 'true catholic'. If you mean slavishly following every single law laid down by the pope/bible/whatever, then I would bet that there are very, very few people out there that could be considered 'true catholics'.
No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think Catholics could be pro-choice (from what I can remember, there are several verses in the bible in which it appears that ZEFs are considered as less imporatant than people); but given the whole host of issues Catholocism has at the moment, it's not gonna be Church doctrine for a good while yet...
 

mac

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I'm not Catholic, but I have a good friend that is. We had a discussion with some other people online about Catholics and abortion. She said there's no way a devout Catholic could be for abortion because the Pope stands against it.

What do you think?
I am a Catholic, but not very religious. A lot of things are misunderstood about Catholics, the rules of our Church being one of them. The great thing about being a Catholic is we can seek forgiveness for anything. I disagree entirely, for instance, with the Church's opposition to contraception. I'm still a Catholic. Call me CINO.
 

mac

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I thought I learned once that they don't believe in birth control. Do they also believe you shouldn't take any other medications?
Yes, no birth control, no we take other medications.
 

molten_dragon

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No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think Catholics could be pro-choice (from what I can remember, there are several verses in the bible in which it appears that ZEFs are considered as less imporatant than people); but given the whole host of issues Catholocism has at the moment, it's not gonna be Church doctrine for a good while yet...
Not sure what point you're trying to make with the 'no true Scotsman' link.
 

iangb

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Not sure what point you're trying to make with the 'no true Scotsman' link.
Oh, sorry. I was agreeing with you that it is near-impossible to define a 'true' Catholic - it's largely in the eye of the beholder - and on a debate forum, it's largely in the agenda of the beholder. 'No true Scotsman' is just the official name.
 
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roughdraft274

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You can be a good Catholic as long as you don't GET an abortion, in my opinion. If God was sending people straight to hell for what they thought, heaven would be empty.
Matthew 5:28: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
The idea of a thought crime was one of the very first things that made me rethink my religious views. It seems extremely immoral to me.

I believe that the official catholic view is that you can commit adultery in your head and unless you repent and accept Jesus etc etc then you'll be buying a one way ticket to hell.
 
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