Can pro life defend their position

[Lursa]

you don't value human life, to you, it doesn't matter when people kill human life or have other human life killed

I'm not like you

that's the difference you will never understand - the value of human life

How are you valuing it when you find it acceptable in cases of rape or incest or birth defects? Please explain what is different in those unborn that makes them less human or less worthy?

 

[Lursa]

you're hung up on "value of life" .... maybe tell us all here why you place none on babies?

Gordy and I value babies a great deal.

I value the unborn, I just value all born people more. And babies are "born."

 

[stealthycat]

No, they're not, unless you think avoiding losing your job, losing an income, risking your health, risking your ability to support your dependents or fulfill obligations to others are "conveniences." Do you? Yes or no? If so, you hold your health and your responsibilities in life very cheaply.

compared to a human life absolutely because all the above can be applied to day old babies - you want to kill them to if they affect your job, income, health, other dependents .... or dating scene, partying, school etc ?

Why cant women get abortions for any need they have? Please explain? That assumes abortion is wrong...who says? What authority? Not the Const, not SCOTUS, not the Bible. So...why do you post your emotional tirades if you have no rational argument beyond your feelings? No one forces women to have abortions, it's a choice...what authority is entitled to deny women a much safer medical procedure?

killing innocent human life is unacceptable - it is to everyone else here too on this forum after a baby is born isn't it ?

 

[stealthycat]

How are you valuing it when you find it acceptable in cases of rape or incest or birth defects? Please explain what is different in those unborn that makes them less human or less worthy?

because for those 1-2% of pregnancies I have always conceded to make an accommodation - make no mistake, the unborn is still killed

but maybe you're right ... maybe I should go hard line and say no abortions at all ? hmmmm let me think on that, you might be right

 

[stealthycat]

Gordy and I value babies a great deal.

only at certain stages of life

I value the unborn, I just value all born people more. And babies are "born."

how does your scale of value work ?

 

[Lursa]

compared to a human life absolutely because all the above can be applied to day old babies - you want to kill them to if they affect your job, income, health, other dependents .... or dating scene, partying, school etc ?

Answer the question before lecturing: do you think avoiding losing your job, losing an income, risking your health, risking your ability to support your dependents or fulfill obligations to others are "conveniences?

And you're wrong anyway...the newborn does not affect the woman's health and can be put up for adoption and not affect ANY of those things. Holy shit do you ever think more than one step ahead?

killing innocent human life is unacceptable - it is to everyone else here too on this forum after a baby is born isn't it ?

How are you valuing it when you find it acceptable in cases of rape or incest or birth defects? Please explain what is different in those unborn that makes them less human or less worthy?

 

[Lursa]

only at certain stages of life



how does your scale of value work ?

I'll wait for you to give direct answers to my questions before I answer any more of yours. I was pretty clear tho in the post you are quoting.

 

[stealthycat]

Answer the question before lecturing: do you think avoiding losing your job, losing an income, risking your health, risking your ability to support your dependents or fulfill obligations to others are "conveniences?

yes because of all the reasons I stated - we shouldn't able to kill our children because they're an inconenience

And you're wrong anyway...the newborn does not affect the woman's health and can be put up for adoption and not affect ANY of those things. Holy shit do you ever think more than one step ahead?

not apples to apples no but in many ways similar as well (jobs, school, partying, income, risk of health, ability to do this and that)

How are you valuing it when you find it acceptable in cases of rape or incest or birth defects? Please explain what is different in those unborn that makes them less human or less worthy?

you're rigth

I rescind that - ban all abortions like Lursa says, I have to be 100% convicted with no compromises at all

deal - you just successfully argued me away from trying to find a compromise. Thank you

 

[Lursa]

because for those 1-2% of pregnancies I have always conceded to make an accommodation - make no mistake, the unborn is still killed

but maybe you're right ... maybe I should go hard line and say no abortions at all ? hmmmm let me think on that, you might be right

Please do rethink it. Tell me how the value of the unborn is any different in cases of rape or incest or birth defects? And then tell me if and why it's acceptable to kill them?

Btw, I'm not worried about your decision in real life but I do like to see people actually articulate their positions and discover their hypocrisies. Next up is why save the life of the woman over the life of the unborn? She's lived much of her life, she's the irresponsible slut, the unborn has its whole life ahead of it...why save the woman's life?

 

[Lursa]

yes because of all the reasons I stated - we shouldn't able to kill our children because they're an inconenience



not apples to apples no but in many ways similar as well (jobs, school, partying, income, risk of health, ability to do this and that)



you're rigth

I rescind that - ban all abortions like Lursa says, I have to be 100% convicted with no compromises at all

deal - you just successfully argued me away from trying to find a compromise. Thank you

So, you were willing to murder "some" unborn to compromise....and you criticize me? You cant even explain it! You sure we cant murder obnoxious toddlers? Why not?

No worries...you couldnt admit that you're ok with murdering the unborn in cases of rape or incest, so you just "conveniently" changed your mind without any ability to explain it. That's the usual case with the anti-choice people...they run mostly on feelings, rational or not.

 

[Gordy327]

I know what value is, most people do

Great. Then it should be no problem for you to explain or quantify this value.

what do you think of that article? would you tell them that 11 weeks premature wasn't a baby?

It's a fetus. That's just simple medical fact.

would you tell them not to smile? why be happy about something that isn't valuable or loved right ?

They can do whatever they want.

I'm curious how you read/see people that are pregnant (women and their husbands/families) ... I bet you want to scream at them how stupid they are because the unborn child in her womb? to you there is zero value there - no value, ..... but they very much see the value don't they ?

Still waiting on that "value" you keep mentioning. Or are erroneous presumptions and appeals to emotion all you really have?

either you're wrong ... or they are .....

Until you explain or quantify value, it is you who is in the wrong!

killing innocent human life is unacceptable - it is to everyone else here too on this forum after a baby is born isn't it ?

Except when it's rape or incest according to you. Why are those cases acceptable? Are they not "valuable?"

 

[Gordy327]

No worries...you couldnt admit that you're ok with murdering the unborn in cases of rape or incest, so you just "conveniently" changed your mind without any ability to explain it. That's the usual case with the anti-choice people...they run mostly on feelings, rational or not.

He cannot even explain this "value" he uses as the basis of his argument. Or explain the difference in value between a fetus conceived from consenting adults vs one from rape/incest. But you hot the nail on the head: all feelings/emotions, no substance. His attempt to cite Joss Stone in his argument, for whatever reason, is a clear indication of that.

 

[stealthycat]

Please do rethink it. Tell me how the value of the unborn is any different in cases of rape or incest or birth defects? And then tell me if and why it's acceptable to kill them?

you're right, they're not any different ........ and we shouldn't allow them to be killed, I agree

 

[Gordy327]

you're right, they're not any different ........ and we shouldn't allow them to be killed, I agree

Why not?

 

[stealthycat]

It's a fetus. That's just simple medical fact.

no, you're using a word

medical fact is its living and human ... just like a 1 day old baby born is the same exact baby 1 day BEFORE birth ... only difference is 48 hours and out of the womb but same living human individual

use puppy, kitten, baby, zef, fetus ... any words you want to but if you want to talk biological facts stick with it

They can do whatever they want.
Still waiting on that "value" you keep mentioning. Or are erroneous presumptions and appeals to emotion all you really have?
Until you explain or quantify value, it is you who is in the wrong!
Except when it's rape or incest according to you. Why are those cases acceptable? Are they not "valuable?"

"I'm curious how you read/see people that are pregnant (women and their husbands/families) ... I bet you want to scream at them how stupid they are because the unborn child in her womb? to you there is zero value there - no value, ..... but they very much see the value don't they ?"

who's avoiding questions now? and you and I both know why you don't post how you really feel about human life, don't we ?

 

[Gordy327]

no, you're using a word

Proper medical terminology.

medical fact is its living and human ... just like a 1 day old baby born is the same exact baby 1 day BEFORE birth ... only difference is 48 hours and out of the womb but same living human individual

Medical fact it is a fetus 1 day before and a neonate 1 day after birth.

use puppy, kitten, baby, zef, fetus ... any words you want to but if you want to talk biological facts stick with it

I do. Hence the medical/scientific terms fetus/neonate.

"I'm curious how you read/see people that are pregnant (women and their husbands/families) ... I bet you want to scream at them how stupid they are because the unborn child in her womb? to you there is zero value there - no value, ..... but they very much see the value don't they ?"

who's avoiding questions now? and you and I both know why you don't post how you really feel about human life, don't we ?

You're attempts to make it about me are nothing more than deflections from challenges posed to you. What is the value of human life you so often declare? You've consistently avoided that question. Perhaps when you actually answer my questions, I might be inclined to answer yours!

 

[stealthycat]

Why not?

if you are right and human life has no value ... Why should we give any prenatal care, the unborn has no value anyway right? Extend you "no value" belief and why shouldn't people be able to kill others anytime they want?


explain why a born human has any more value than an unborn ?

 

[Lursa]

if you are right and human life has no value ...

Where did he say human life has no value? Why havent you told us that value?

 

[stealthycat]

Proper medical terminology.

Medical fact it is a fetus 1 day before and a neonate 1 day after birth.

I do. Hence the medical/scientific terms fetus/neonate.

You're attempts to make it about me are nothing more than deflections from challenges posed to you. What is the value of human life you so often declare? You've consistently avoided that question. Perhaps when you actually answer my questions, I might be inclined to answer yours!

it sounds to me like what is legal and what isn't drives what you believe

is that true ?

 

[Lursa]

it sounds to me like what is legal and what isn't drives what you believe

is that true ?

"It sounds to me like" you keep avoiding the direct questions that he's asking. You recognize the question marks, right? So why do you avoid them?

 

[stealthycat]

Where did he say human life has no value? Why havent you told us that value?

I don't think you are like Gordy - I don't think anyone here is

I think you see unborns as valuable - but the strong liberal in you refuses to protect them. You'd protect your own with your life - I think you'd fight hard to keep a healthy grandchild from being aborted for convenience too. Maybe I'm wrong. I think you've been told all your life abortion is a Right when it never was and you cannot admit being wrong supporting it.

I was pro-abortion a long time - I changed my views with marriage, pregnancies and children, I wasn't too proud to understand I was wrong

 

[stealthycat]

"It sounds to me like" you keep avoiding the direct questions that he's asking. You recognize the question marks, right? So why do you avoid them?

oh there have been a lot of my questions he's refused to answer and he and I know why

 

[jaeger19]

So emotional! Texas abortion laws did not kill her. She simply did not recieve the best medical care or advice from the medical team in Texas that she sight care from. And once again by your own words: "ATTORNEY GENERAL DENYING A WOMAN WITH A NON VIABLE FETUS…An abortion and THREATENING TO PROSECUTE" What exactly prevented her from seeking an bortion in a different state? Did they put a shock collar around her next that would zap her if she stepped outside Texas borders?

No emotions here. Well other than frustration from your either refusal to listen to what I told you or you inability to understand simple concepts.

The woman in question WANTED A BABY. Get it??WANTED A BABY . SHE DID NOT GO TO THE HOSPITAL TO HAVE AN ABORTION.!!

She went to the hospital because she was pregnant but started bleeding.
She was diagnosed with a miscarriage but while tge fetus was non viable the fetus had a heartbeat.

She was medically stable in the hospital.. but loading up in a car and traveling to a different state could be deadly.
At any time she could begin bleeding profusely
Or go into toxic shock .. or if the heartbeat stopped while she was traveling.. the procedure would be delayed further and she would be at more risk for infection.

The delay caused directly by the Texas law killed her.

 

[Lursa]

I don't think you are like Gordy - I don't think anyone here is

I think you see unborns as valuable - but the strong liberal in you refuses to protect them. You'd protect your own with your life - I think you'd fight hard to keep a healthy grandchild from being aborted for convenience too. Maybe I'm wrong. I think you've been told all your life abortion is a Right when it never was and you cannot admit being wrong supporting it.

Your fantasies are bizarre and almost completely wrong. Why do you need to invent such garbage when you could just ask? After you answer my questions with direct, good faith answers of course. They await your attention.

I was pro-abortion a long time - I changed my views with marriage, pregnancies and children, I wasn't too proud to understand I was wrong

Yes, it's very clear that you're arguments are not based on laws, rights, reason, or even morality...they are simply based on your personal feelings based on your personal experience.

 

[MAGAnificent]

The delay caused directly by the Texas law killed her.

BS.