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Can God do anything?

They saw Jesus as divine from early on - as Lord of the Sabbath; for declaring he is I AM while walking on the water; declaring he is I AM in John 8:58, etc.

Any so-called discrepancies between the four Gospels can be easily reconciled. If you think you have one that can't, cite the scripture #'s and make your case.
When was the Gospel of John written? You are claiming that all Christians of the first few centuries thought identically and that’s incorrect.

The number of angels, if any, that were in the tomb when Mary came upon it.
 
When was the Gospel of John written?

About 90-95 AD

You are claiming that all Christians of the first few centuries thought identically and that’s incorrect.

Strawman.

The number of angels, if any, that were in the tomb when Mary came upon it.

Over what period of time? First there was this one, 30 seconds later another one, etc.

Put those angels on a timeline and then there's no problem.
 
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You either accept the Bible as the Word of God or you don't...I believe what it says.."with God all things are possible."

Sadly, there are those who believe it is truly God's Word but still insist on reading texts out of context in order to come to their own conclusions about hellfire, immortality of the soul, and the trinity...for what perverted pleasure, I don't know...

YOU either accept the Bible as the Word of God or YOU don't.

You don't believe Jesus when he said,

"“Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.” - John 2:19

Not only did you argue against his part in raising himself from the dead, but because you claim he didn't (you argued it was the Father and the Holy Spirit instead of Jesus) you now make Jesus out to be a FALSE PROPHET.

So, because you deny Jesus in John 2:19, you've made Jesus into a liar and a false prophet.

That's how lame Jehovah's Witnesses are.

What do you have to say for yourself, Elvira?
 
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So Hell is where the party is? :)

So you are saying Jesus = God and that God put himself on Earth. Correct?

No, the democrat party is not in hell but it is headed there by stuffed ballot boxes full of illegitimate votes.
 
No, the democrat party is not in hell but it is headed there by stuffed ballot boxes full of illegitimate votes.

Let's stop there with that line. This thread isn't about anything political. It's about the scope of what God can do or cannot do.
 
About 90-95 AD

Strawman.

Over what period of time? First there was this one, 30 seconds later another one, etc.

Put those angels on a timeline and then there's no problem.

Agreed. Ergo, we're not talking about eyewitness accounts.

Disagreed for two reasons; first, it's not a straw man argument since you're the one who brought it up and second because you're the one who keeps posting that early Christians all thought alike by referencing a book written 70 years after the fact. Example:
They saw Jesus as divine from early on - as Lord of the Sabbath; for declaring he is I AM while walking on the water; declaring he is I AM in John 8:58, etc.

Any so-called discrepancies between the four Gospels can be easily reconciled. If you think you have one that can't, cite the scripture #'s and make your case.

Feel free to construct your timeline but that fact remains anyone who can read can see the discrepancies. Secondly, Occam's razor says that books written over 30 to 80 years after the crucifixion by different authors are more likely to contain errors and discrepancies than a mere, unsubstantiated claim of check the "timeline".

Matthew 28:1-8
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave. And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it. And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow. The guards shook for fear of him and became like dead men. The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid; for I know that you are looking for Jesus who has been crucified. He is not here, for He has risen, just as He said. Come, see the place where He was lying. Go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead; and behold, He is going ahead of you into Galilee, there you will see Him; behold, I have told you.” And they left the tomb quickly with fear and great joy and ran to report it to His disciples.

Mark 16:1-8
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him. Very early on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. They were saying to one another, “Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance of the tomb?” Looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away, although it was extremely large. Entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting at the right, wearing a white robe; and they were amazed. And he said to them, “Do not be amazed; you are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who has been crucified. He has risen; He is not here; behold, here is the place where they laid Him. But go, tell His disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you to Galilee; there you will see Him, just as He told you.’” They went out and fled from the tomb, for trembling and astonishment had gripped them; and they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.

Luke 24:1-10
But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men suddenly stood near them in dazzling clothing; and as the women were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, “Why do you seek the living One among the dead? He is not here, but He has risen. Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee, saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.” And they remembered His words, and returned from the tomb and reported all these things to the eleven and to all the rest.

John 20:1-8
Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb. So she ran and came to Simon Peter and to the other disciple whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him.”
 
No, the democrat party is not in hell but it is headed there by stuffed ballot boxes full of illegitimate votes.
The Feds are now involved in the election fraud by the Republicans in North Carolina. It appears the Republicans are guilty of what they've accused others of doing....just like Trump does!


Let's stop there with that line. This thread isn't about anything political. It's about the scope of what God can do or cannot do.
Agreed on all points. However, there's a difference between can't do and won't do. Again, the "Watchmaker God" theory. It appears God certainly doesn't interfere in elections like the Republicans, eh? :)
 
Agreed. Ergo, we're not talking about eyewitness accounts.

Yes, we are.

Disagreed for two reasons; first, it's not a straw man argument since you're the one who brought it up and second because you're the one who keeps posting that early Christians all thought alike by referencing a book written 70 years after the fact. Example:

Feel free to construct your timeline but that fact remains anyone who can read can see the discrepancies. Secondly, Occam's razor says that books written over 30 to 80 years after the crucifixion by different authors are more likely to contain errors and discrepancies than a mere, unsubstantiated claim of check the "timeline".

Matthew 28:1-8
Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave. And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it. And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow. The guards shook for fear of him and became like dead men. The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid; for I know that you are looking for Jesus who has been crucified. He is not here, for He has risen, just as He said. Come, see the place where He was lying. Go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead; and behold, He is going ahead of you into Galilee, there you will see Him; behold, I have told you.” And they left the tomb quickly with fear and great joy and ran to report it to His disciples.

Mark 16:1-8
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him. Very early on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. They were saying to one another, “Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance of the tomb?” Looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away, although it was extremely large. Entering the tomb, they saw a young man sitting at the right, wearing a white robe; and they were amazed. And he said to them, “Do not be amazed; you are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who has been crucified. He has risen; He is not here; behold, here is the place where they laid Him. But go, tell His disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you to Galilee; there you will see Him, just as He told you.’” They went out and fled from the tomb, for trembling and astonishment had gripped them; and they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.

Luke 24:1-10
But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared. And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men suddenly stood near them in dazzling clothing; and as the women were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, “Why do you seek the living One among the dead? He is not here, but He has risen. Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee, saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.” And they remembered His words, and returned from the tomb and reported all these things to the eleven and to all the rest.

John 20:1-8
Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb. So she ran and came to Simon Peter and to the other disciple whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him.”

Tsk tsk.

Here's the Harmony of the Resurrection Accounts:

Greenleaf?s Harmony of the Resurrection Accounts

Enjoy!
 
Then you have answered your own question, God can not do anything.

I'm well aware that "no" is my answer to the thread/title question. I indicated my answer to that effect many posts ago, and subsequently reiterated it.
 
The Feds are now involved in the election fraud by the Republicans in North Carolina. It appears the Republicans are guilty of what they've accused others of doing....just like Trump does!

Please have in a different thread whatever political conversation you care to have with Marke. Please stop responding to his (or anyone's) political remarks posted in this thread. Hopefully you understand and are capable of applying the concept of not dignifying something by responding to it....This simply isn't a thread in which political remarks merit being dignified by being responded to.

Agreed on all points. However, there's a difference between can't do and won't do. Again, the "Watchmaker God" theory. It appears God certainly doesn't interfere in elections like the Republicans, eh? :)

Red:
Are you trying deliberately to introduce a political line of discussion? If so, please create your own thread that has the nexus of politics/political parties and what God and or cannot do, will or won't do.
 
Yes, we are....

So you are claiming that the apostles Mark, Matthew, Luke and John actually wrote the Gospels? If not, then who did?

As for Greenleaf arguing a legal case, fine, but 1) that's not proof the actual apostles wrote their own gospels, 2) it's not proof that the eyewitness accounts were accurate and 3) it presupposes that the four Gospels, and only the four Gospels, are the definitive accounts. As you should know, those books were cherry-picked 300 years later by a group of men seeking to solidify the official POV of the church.
 
Please have in a different thread whatever political conversation you care to have with Marke. Please stop responding to his (or anyone's) political remarks posted in this thread. Hopefully you understand and are capable of applying the concept of not dignifying something by responding to it....This simply isn't a thread in which political remarks merit being dignified by being responded to.

Red:
Are you trying deliberately to introduce a political line of discussion? If so, please create your own thread that has the nexus of politics/political parties and what God and or cannot do, will or won't do.

Excellent try to avoid the point that there's a difference between can't do and won't do. Kudos.
 
Can omnipotent God literally do and be anything?
  • Can God commit suicide?
  • Can God, not a version of God, do be in all respects truly mortal?
    • If God can commence existence as immortal and choose to become mortal, how can that choice be undone?

If God can do anything, can he make a rock so big that he can't lift it up?

:roll:
 
Excellent try to avoid the point that there's a difference between can't do and won't do. Kudos.

Of course, any given explicit behavior, be it one God undertakes or one humans do, is a function of both will and wherewithal. I've already written to that distinction. I may even have been the first in this thread to introduce that quandary.

Be that as it may, the thread is about the limits, whether there be any, of God's wherewithal, not God's will. Insofar as the topic is the former, rather than the latter, I'm not going to address the latter beyond noting that a given line of remarks speaks (explicitly or ambiguously) to the latter. I'm not because I can better posit what be any number of individuals' will than can I posit confidently what be God's. I can only just barely speculate accurately what might be your will. How can I deign to posit the same about an allegedly omnipotent being?
 
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If God can do anything, can he make a rock so big that he can't lift it up?

:roll:

There again, my answer is God isn't omnipotent, so "no," God cannot make such a rock and in turn be unable to lift it.
 
There again, my answer is God isn't omnipotent, so "no," God cannot make such a rock and in turn be unable to lift it.
The problem is that you are attempting to apply natural universe limits to a supernatural entity.

Imagine a two-dimensional universe with a circle in the middle of it. Can any dots outside the circle enter it? No. "Impossible" they'd say, but a three-dimensional entity would have no problem entering and exiting the circle.
 
The problem is that you are attempting to apply natural universe limits to a supernatural entity.

Imagine a two-dimensional universe with a circle in the middle of it. Can any dots outside the circle enter it? No. "Impossible" they'd say, but a three-dimensional entity would have no problem entering and exiting the circle.
Red (underscore inserted by me so as to retain the emphasis Rising Sun indicated -- I wouldn't have but for DP's auto-italicizing all quoted content):

As I've already noted:

If God is fictional, sure, God can do anything that humans, fiction writers, can conceive of God doing.
 
Red (underscore inserted by me so as to retain the emphasis Rising Sun indicated -- I wouldn't have but for DP's auto-italicizing all quoted content):

As I've already noted:



Dude, great. You set up the parameters to win your point. Feel better now? You obviously don't want to have a discussion, so I'll just /unsubscribe. Have a nice day!
 
Dude, great. You set up the parameters to win your point. Feel better now? You obviously don't want to have a discussion, so I'll just /unsubscribe. Have a nice day!

Well, you're right about that inasmuch as all I solicited was a "yes" or "no" answer to the thread question. Though I created this thread to obtain information, "yes" or "no" answers to the thread question provide the information I desire.

You'll perhaps have noticed too that the majority of my remarks in this thread have been of a "referee" nature, that is, as an arbiter of context, more so those of a discussant/arguer of the affirmative or negative proposition implied by the thread question. Someone's got to play that role in a discussion, so, as best I can (given the time and resource constraints I face in doing so) and seeing as it's my thread, I have.

I didn't include a poll question and I am amenable to others discussing the topic the thread question introduces, but I don't and didn't at the outset particularly care to play a key role in such discussions.

In threads wherein I entreat to discuss a topic, I present a somewhat (given that this is a public web forum rather than a work or other "professional" setting) well developed case in support of a central thesis, whereafter I will then defend my thesis as needed. While others may entreat for discussion of a third party's ideas, I present my own ideas/thesis and bring credible exogenous content to bear to support the premises I present to support my ultimate conclusion. Sure, not all of my threads are like that, but the ones topicked on something I'm interested/willing to discuss are.

Lastly, though it appeals to others here, I rarely care to engage in, nor do I entreat for, discussion whereby the premises used to support a given conclusion cannot be evaluated to factually true or false. God's nature cannot be evaluated thus, so I'm not about to entreat for discussion about the verity of what God can/can't do, but I did desire to learn what other folks' have concluded (yea or nea) re: the question I posed.

(See post 93.)
 
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There again, my answer is God isn't omnipotent, so "no," God cannot make such a rock and in turn be unable to lift it.

So God can't make a big rock.
 
So God can't make a big rock.

I suspect that God, if God exists, can make big rocks. I have no idea of how big a rock must be before God cannot lift it.
 
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