• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Can anyone Trumpsplain this one for me?

Airyaman

New Druid
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
12,999
Reaction score
10,268
Location
AL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1071387078901030913

Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

The idea of a European Military didn’t work out
too well in W.W. I or 2. But the U.S. was there
for you, and always will be. All we ask is that
you pay your fair share of NATO. Germany is
paying 1% while the U.S. pays 4.3% of a much
larger GDP - to protect Europe. Fairness!

4:52 AM - 8 Dec 2018


So I'm trying to understand. Having a European military did not work out for WW1 or 2, yet Trump wants the Europeans to spend more on military now? What's the difference? There was no European military.

Why is Donnie so friggin' dumb?
 

Bullseye

Fund police; Defund the politicians
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 18, 2018
Messages
33,595
Reaction score
11,181
Location
San Diego
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1071387078901030913

Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

The idea of a European Military didn’t work out
too well in W.W. I or 2. But the U.S. was there
for you, and always will be. All we ask is that
you pay your fair share of NATO. Germany is
paying 1% while the U.S. pays 4.3% of a much
larger GDP - to protect Europe. Fairness!

4:52 AM - 8 Dec 2018


So I'm trying to understand. Having a European military did not work out for WW1 or 2, yet Trump wants the Europeans to spend more on military now? What's the difference? There was no European military.

Why is Donnie so friggin' dumb?
Several European nations formed an alliance fighting as a joint force against the Germans - the operated under a unified command structure, hence THE European , AKA the Allied Powers.
 

Bullseye

Fund police; Defund the politicians
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 18, 2018
Messages
33,595
Reaction score
11,181
Location
San Diego
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Russia, Japan, and the US was part of the European army?
Huh? The US was a part of the Allied Forces. Russia was on the Allied side in WW II. Last time I checked Japan isn't part of Europe. Eisenhower was Supreme Allied Commander in WW II, BTW.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,914
Reaction score
29,976
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1071387078901030913

Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

The idea of a European Military didn’t work out
too well in W.W. I or 2. But the U.S. was there
for you, and always will be. All we ask is that
you pay your fair share of NATO. Germany is
paying 1% while the U.S. pays 4.3% of a much
larger GDP - to protect Europe. Fairness!

4:52 AM - 8 Dec 2018


So I'm trying to understand. Having a European military did not work out for WW1 or 2, yet Trump wants the Europeans to spend more on military now? What's the difference? There was no European military.

Why is Donnie so friggin' dumb?

The difference is, the Europeans want NATO...but they want to suck the money necessary to run NATO from the US. Trump it calling them out.
 

jnug

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Messages
20,606
Reaction score
7,689
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
We spend as high a percentage of our GDP on Military expenditures because we want to. Its not more complicated than that.

As for Europe, 4% pf their GDP's by country which is what Trump has been yammering about would amount to a remilitarization of Europe, without question the dumbest thing anybody ever asked for or heard about.

As for wanting NATO, we want NATO no matter how much yammering we might do about it. Virtually all of the European partners have a plan to get to 2% of their GDP which by the way is not common fund. Its a percentage of GDP spend on their own defense initiatives.
 

Airyaman

New Druid
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
12,999
Reaction score
10,268
Location
AL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Huh? The US was a part of the Allied Forces. Russia was on the Allied side in WW II. Last time I checked Japan isn't part of Europe. Eisenhower was Supreme Allied Commander in WW II, BTW.

Your words "operated under a unified command structure, hence THE European , AKA the Allied Powers. "

So I'm trying to figure out how Japan, America, and Russia are considered the "European, AKA the Allied Powers". Allied Powers, yes, European, no.
 

Airyaman

New Druid
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
12,999
Reaction score
10,268
Location
AL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
One correction: Russia would be included, my bad.
 

Airyaman

New Druid
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
12,999
Reaction score
10,268
Location
AL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
The difference is, the Europeans want NATO...but they want to suck the money necessary to run NATO from the US. Trump it calling them out.

How so? Funding for NATO is figured by a formula based on the national income of it's members.
 

Amelia

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
9,812
Reaction score
7,614
Location
Wisconsin
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Trump is providing the biggest incentives ever for European nations to increase their military spending. To protect themselves against the U.S.
 

maxparrish

Conservatarian
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
7,804
Reaction score
2,837
Location
SF Bay Area
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1071387078901030913

Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

The idea of a European Military didn’t work out
too well in W.W. I or 2. But the U.S. was there
for you, and always will be. All we ask is that
you pay your fair share of NATO. Germany is
paying 1% while the U.S. pays 4.3% of a much
larger GDP - to protect Europe. Fairness!

4:52 AM - 8 Dec 2018


So I'm trying to understand. Having a European military did not work out for WW1 or 2, yet Trump wants the Europeans to spend more on military now? What's the difference? There was no European military.

Why is Donnie so friggin' dumb?

Trumps unique "short-hand" is usually understandable, given a good-faith reading. It's clear he means that collective security treaties between allied European powers failed to stem aggression, in part because they didn't prepare and didn't from the outset have the US to save SOME of their bacon. The US is more than willing to save their asses again, but they ought to pull their weight as well.

Needless to say, the enemy of Europe is no longer Germany - it is the embers of the Soviet Union, Russia. It is also clear that western Europe has neglected its own defense and only some countries are pulling their share - e.g. Poland is on the front-line, so to speak and buffering Germany, who is freeloading.

You can ridicule Trump for his form, but not his meaning.
 

jet57

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Messages
31,057
Reaction score
3,969
Location
not here
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1071387078901030913

Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

The idea of a European Military didn’t work out
too well in W.W. I or 2. But the U.S. was there
for you, and always will be. All we ask is that
you pay your fair share of NATO. Germany is
paying 1% while the U.S. pays 4.3% of a much
larger GDP - to protect Europe. Fairness!

4:52 AM - 8 Dec 2018


So I'm trying to understand. Having a European military did not work out for WW1 or 2, yet Trump wants the Europeans to spend more on military now? What's the difference? There was no European military.

Why is Donnie so friggin' dumb?

"Dumb" is innocent. Stupid and ill informed is something else entirely. THAT is what Trump is. He told Tillerson that the US could save so much money by not having troops in Germany or Japan or elsewhere... After Trump left the room, that was when Tillerson called him a ****in moron.
 

Fletch

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 7, 2012
Messages
40,540
Reaction score
18,081
Location
Mentor Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Trump is providing the biggest incentives ever for European nations to increase their military spending. To protect themselves against the U.S.

????? What?? Thats dumb on every conceivable level.
 

Airyaman

New Druid
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
12,999
Reaction score
10,268
Location
AL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Trumps unique "short-hand" is usually understandable, given a good-faith reading. It's clear he means that collective security treaties between allied European powers failed to stem aggression, in part because they didn't prepare and didn't from the outset have the US to save SOME of their bacon. The US is more than willing to save their asses again, but they ought to pull their weight as well.

Needless to say, the enemy of Europe is no longer Germany - it is the embers of the Soviet Union, Russia. It is also clear that western Europe has neglected its own defense and only some countries are pulling their share - e.g. Poland is on the front-line, so to speak and buffering Germany, who is freeloading.

You can ridicule Trump for his form, but not his meaning.

This is actually a pretty good Trumpsplanation. TY.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,914
Reaction score
29,976
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
How so? Funding for NATO is figured by a formula based on the national income of it's members.

Yes. And Trump is telling them to pay more.
 

jnug

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
Messages
20,606
Reaction score
7,689
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
This is actually a pretty good Trumpsplanation. TY.

"Pulling their weight"? Who sets the standard for pulling their weight? The 2% of GDP is a target. It is not a requirement nor a standard for NATO membership. One reason its not is because the collective organization and mostly the US gets more out of the membership than the 2% could ever actually touch for relevance to the actual makings of a contemporary day military alliance.

Now if somebody wants to make the case that our 4% of GDP makes up one heck of a lot of difference go right ahead. You would be better off trying to build an escalator to the Moon than talking us down to a lower number than 4%, NATO or no NATO.

By the way, anybody that thinks that just because Europe is not dominated by the nutty Royals that governed their geopolitical environment through most of the 20th century needs to learn how to read a map. We do not under any circumstances what a remilitarized Europe nor even close to one.

As for the threat from the Soviet Union, as I have stated before, we have to lead. We have to lead. The allies will follow if we lead. The entirety of post WW2 general peace has been based on us leading and there is nobody outside of the Authoritarian regimes prepared to fill the vacuum we are leaving in our wake.

Since we just buried a President that knew something about leading, leading is building a coalition to take on the invasion of Kuwait. Its not insulting every Tom, Dick and Larry ally you have will fumbling for the zipper on the front of the fly of every dictator you can find!

While I am at it the ONLY country to have benefited in actual Article 5 NATO Treaty support from its NATO allies is .......the USA.
 
Last edited:

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,914
Reaction score
29,976
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Eh, no.

Do you understand NATO, and what the 2% goal is?

Yes, I understand exactly what the 2% goal is. I also understand how NATO is funded.

Again...Trump is telling them to pay more.
 

Cardinal

Respected on both sides
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
81,740
Reaction score
60,957
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1071387078901030913

Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump

The idea of a European Military didn’t work out
too well in W.W. I or 2. But the U.S. was there
for you, and always will be. All we ask is that
you pay your fair share of NATO. Germany is
paying 1% while the U.S. pays 4.3% of a much
larger GDP - to protect Europe. Fairness!

4:52 AM - 8 Dec 2018


So I'm trying to understand. Having a European military did not work out for WW1 or 2, yet Trump wants the Europeans to spend more on military now? What's the difference? There was no European military.

Why is Donnie so friggin' dumb?

He's trolling.

While I don't pretend that he has a secret, masterful control over historical factotum, he knows he's full of **** and the motive for tweeting that is trolling.
 

Airyaman

New Druid
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
12,999
Reaction score
10,268
Location
AL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Yes, I understand exactly what the 2% goal is. I also understand how NATO is funded.

Again...Trump is telling them to pay more.

Pay more how?
 

Airyaman

New Druid
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
12,999
Reaction score
10,268
Location
AL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Trump said how: "All we ask is that you pay your fair share of NATO."

OK, now we're getting somewhere.

Does that 2% figure into the "fair share of NATO"? Who gets the 2%? Or is the 2% something else?
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,914
Reaction score
29,976
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
OK, now we're getting somewhere.

Does that 2% figure into the "fair share of NATO"? Who gets the 2%? Or is the 2% something else?

I don't know. Trump didn't mention anything about 2%. Maybe you should ask him?

Look. Your game is transparent. Don't bother me with it.
 

Nickyjo

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
18,889
Reaction score
5,720
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
The difference is, the Europeans want NATO...but they want to suck the money necessary to run NATO from the US. Trump it calling them out.

Wanna call someone out, get your facts straight.
 
Top Bottom