Can anyone be prevented from "praying"?

[Dragonfly]

the only relevant factor is whether they're causing a disruption or not.

We agree.

The point is, some people appear to want to claim that vocalized praying can't ever be a disruption.

Some people want to claim that preventing vocalized praying in any given situation is a violation of rights.

My question was simply asking if there was any actual difference between thinking a prayer, and speaking a prayer.

It appears unanimous that a thought prayer is just as effective as a spoken one.

So the idea that rights are being infringed simply because, in some very specific situations, a spoken prayer isn't "allowed" appears to be preposterous.

I was looking for confirmation and information.

 

[HonestJoe]

The point is, some people appear to want to claim that vocalized praying can't ever be a disruption.

Some people want to claim that preventing vocalized praying in any given situation is a violation of rights.

Do they really say exactly that? I find it unlikely. Maybe you should have started a thread about that. Maybe you should have continued in whatever thread you're referring to rather than starting a new one with no context and only your interpretation of the situation to go on.

My question was simply asking if there was any actual difference between thinking a prayer, and speaking a prayer.

It appears unanimous that a thought prayer is just as effective as a spoken one.

That isn't quite what you asked and wasn't quite my answer. It is possible for different type of prayer to involve all sorts of different elements, including speech or silence. I'm entirely the wrong person to talk about the "effectiveness" of prayer but clearly lots of different religious people wish to prayer in specific ways for various reasons so simply saying prayer is possible in other ways doesn't address anything.

So the idea that rights are being infringed simply because, in some very specific situations, a spoken prayer isn't "allowed" appears to be preposterous.

It could be if anybody actually said that. There are several steps missing before we reach that conclusion though.

 

[Dragonfly]

Do they really say exactly that?

Have you not seen any of the "war on religion" folk's comments?

More often than not it's inferred, but occasionally it's stated outright.

 

[OlNate]

Let me get this out of the way right up front, other than actually murdering/killing the person, can prayer be prevented?

So in a different thread I saw somebody post about how their child was "prevented from praying" in school for another classmate.

Now I have to wonder, how can prayer be prevented?

Does one actually have to vocalize their prayer for it to be "heard"?

Can't prayer be silent?

Can "god" not hear your thoughts? Must it be actually spoken out loud?

Does the out loud prayer carry more weight somehow?

Or as I would be more inclined to believe (pun intended), it's impossible to stop anyone from praying as there's no need to be audible about it.

Silent prayer is still prayer, and therefore nothing can ever be done to prevent it outside of physically killing the person.

Which is it?

People can certainly pray silently, in private - at least, in Christianity. I can't speak to other religions, as I've never really looked into their particular beliefs on this. But Christians can - and should. Not trying to convert you...just for insight into what Christianity teaches in order to support my response:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6&version=NIV

 

[Sampson Simpson]

Lots of conflicting messages in the bible. You could find one to fit any argument.

So what passage tells people they should pray for all to see that conflicts with this:

"But when you pray, go into your private room and, after shutting your door, pray to your Father who is in secret. Then your Father who looks on in secret will repay you."Matthew 6:6

When praying, Jesus’ disciples were not to imitate such hypocrites as the self-righteous Pharisees, whose public display of piety was nothing more than a pretense...Matthew 23:13-32

 

[Omega Man]

So what passage tells people they should pray for all to see that conflicts with this:

I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
-1 Timothy 2:8

Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.
-Psalm 141:2

Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime.
-Daniel 6:10


OM

 

[Sampson Simpson]

I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
-1 Timothy 2:8

Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.
-Psalm 141:2

Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime.
-Daniel 6:10


OM

I don't see how that contradicts matthew, the last one is he just went home to pray, the others are just saying raise hands to pray. It doesn't say anything about making a public spectacle of praying like many Christians do

I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

This one maybe is close, but really only mentions lifting up hands

 

[Dragonfly]

I don't see how that contradicts matthew, the last one is he just went home to pray, the others are just saying raise hands to pray. It doesn't say anything about making a public spectacle of praying like many Christians do


This one maybe is close, but really only mentions lifting up hands

The below has been referenced twice in this thread:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_6:6

Okay, not the wiki page actually, but the bible verse itself. Elvira and Olnate posted about it.


In fact Olnate's link goes on to say this:

7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Apparently prayer isn't even needed. "Your Father knows what you need before you ask him."

 

[Omega Man]

I don't see how that contradicts matthew, the last one is he just went home to pray, the others are just saying raise hands to pray. It doesn't say anything about making a public spectacle of praying like many Christians do


This one maybe is close, but really only mentions lifting up hands

"Everywhere, lifting your hands, without doubting" (reservation) requires no explanation. Pray visibly, whenever you want, wherever you are. The 2nd verse says nothing at all whatsoever about being in private; only to raise your hands fervently as you pray. The 3rd verse outlines quite simply about praying visibly with the windows open so that the public can see you.

You asked a question; I answered it.


OM

 

[Dragonfly]

"Everywhere, lifting your hands, without doubting" (reservation) requires no explanation. Pray visibly, whenever you want, wherever you are. The 2nd verse says nothing at all whatsoever about being in private; only to raise your hands fervently as you pray. The 3rd verse outlines quite simply about praying visibly with the windows open so that the public can see you.

You asked a question; I answered it.


OM

So would you say that the bible, in it's usual highly contradictory fashion, has stated that there's more than one way to pray?

 

[Omega Man]

So would you say that the bible, in it's usual highly contradictory fashion, has stated that there's more than one way to pray?

Absolutely. The silent version, or the "knock yourself out, and totally go for it" version.


OM

 

[Casado]

You can always pray silently. Unbelievers may prevent you from praying aloud, or even "taking a moment" to pray (by interrupting you, etc.). But the simple fact is, we can all pray quietly, anytime, anywhere.

 

[RAMOSS]

You can always pray silently. Unbelievers may prevent you from praying aloud, or even "taking a moment" to pray (by interrupting you, etc.). But the simple fact is, we can all pray quietly, anytime, anywhere.

In fact, I am sure that there is heavy praying going on in schools at every final exam.

 

[Rich2018]

Let me get this out of the way right up front, other than actually murdering/killing the person, can prayer be prevented?

So in a different thread I saw somebody post about how their child was "prevented from praying" in school for another classmate.

Now I have to wonder, how can prayer be prevented?

Does one actually have to vocalize their prayer for it to be "heard"?

Can't prayer be silent?

Can "god" not hear your thoughts? Must it be actually spoken out loud?

Does the out loud prayer carry more weight somehow?

Or as I would be more inclined to believe (pun intended), it's impossible to stop anyone from praying as there's no need to be audible about it.

Silent prayer is still prayer, and therefore nothing can ever be done to prevent it outside of physically killing the person.

Which is it?

You can't prevent praying...

What you can attempt to stop is the theater of the faithful.

 

[Dragonfly]

In fact, I am sure that there is heavy praying going on in schools at every final exam.

Not to mention at sporting events, in the bedroom, at casinos, when a police car slides in behind you while driving, ....

 

[Rich2018]

Not to mention at sporting events, in the bedroom, at casinos, when a police car slides in behind you while driving, ....

...and when buying lottery tickets.


Atheists don't try to make a person's thoughts wrong.

Only Theists do that.


Thought crime is listed in the Bible's Ten Commandments.

 

[bongsaway]

I pray silently all the time. And you can also pray without words.

What they probably meant was that the child wanted to pray out loud, and was prevented. Darn atheists have taken over public education.

So go to a school where praying out loud is advocated, like catholic school. What if ten people in a classroom of thirty decided they wanted to pray out loud and all of them believed in a different religion? what if three pulled out prayer rugs?

 

[Dragonfly]

What if ten people in a classroom of thirty decided they wanted to pray out loud and all of them believed in a different religion? what if three pulled out prayer rugs?

I asked something very similar back in post #18.
Got no response.
Shocking isn't it?

 

[Angel]

I asked something very similar back in post #18.
Got no response.
Shocking isn't it?

The question, yes. Shockingly dumbass.