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Can anyone be prevented from "praying"?

Dragonfly

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Let me get this out of the way right up front, other than actually murdering/killing the person, can prayer be prevented?

So in a different thread I saw somebody post about how their child was "prevented from praying" in school for another classmate.

Now I have to wonder, how can prayer be prevented?

Does one actually have to vocalize their prayer for it to be "heard"?

Can't prayer be silent?

Can "god" not hear your thoughts? Must it be actually spoken out loud?

Does the out loud prayer carry more weight somehow?

Or as I would be more inclined to believe (pun intended), it's impossible to stop anyone from praying as there's no need to be audible about it.

Silent prayer is still prayer, and therefore nothing can ever be done to prevent it outside of physically killing the person.

Which is it?
 

Good4Nothin

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Let me get this out of the way right up front, other than actually murdering/killing the person, can prayer be prevented?

So in a different thread I saw somebody post about how their child was "prevented from praying" in school for another classmate.

Now I have to wonder, how can prayer be prevented?

Does one actually have to vocalize their prayer for it to be "heard"?

Can't prayer be silent?

Can "god" not hear your thoughts? Must it be actually spoken out loud?

Does the out loud prayer carry more weight somehow?

Or as I would be more inclined to believe (pun intended), it's impossible to stop anyone from praying as there's no need to be audible about it.

Silent prayer is still prayer, and therefore nothing can ever be done to prevent it outside of physically killing the person.

Which is it?

I pray silently all the time. And you can also pray without words.

What they probably meant was that the child wanted to pray out loud, and was prevented. Darn atheists have taken over public education.
 

RAMOSS

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I pray silently all the time. And you can also pray without words.

What they probably meant was that the child wanted to pray out loud, and was prevented. Darn atheists have taken over public education.

In other words 'child was prevented from disrupting the class.' I see.
 

Good4Nothin

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In other words 'child was prevented from disrupting the class.' I see.

Oh yes, praying for a sick friend is so disruptive and insolent! It must not be tolerated!
 

gfm7175

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Let me get this out of the way right up front, other than actually murdering/killing the person, can prayer be prevented?
Vocal prayer can be prevented, but prayer itself cannot be.

So in a different thread I saw somebody post about how their child was "prevented from praying" in school for another classmate.
I am assuming, as I am not familiar with the story, but they were probably told not to vocalize their prayer.

Now I have to wonder, how can prayer be prevented?
Vocalized prayer can be; prayer itself cannot be.

Does one actually have to vocalize their prayer for it to be "heard"?
No.

Can't prayer be silent?
Yes.

Can "god" not hear your thoughts? Must it be actually spoken out loud?
He can, and it needn't be.

Does the out loud prayer carry more weight somehow?
Nope. In fact, it might even carry less weight (depending upon how it is being conducted).

Or as I would be more inclined to believe (pun intended), it's impossible to stop anyone from praying as there's no need to be audible about it.
True.

Silent prayer is still prayer, and therefore nothing can ever be done to prevent it outside of physically killing the person.
True.

Which is it?
I assume the discussion is concerning whether or not someone can be vocal in their prayer in public schools.
 

Dragonfly

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I assume the discussion is concerning whether or not someone can be vocal in their prayer in public schools.

Not necessarily. I used the school thing as an example of something being talked about here at DP not long ago.

I've heard the same complaints elsewhere regarding different situations.


The rest of your post was pretty much righteous all the way around.
 

Dragonfly

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Oh yes, praying for a sick friend is so disruptive and insolent!

Can you not see how it might actually be just that?

Now the obvious solution is to simply have a brief moment of silence.
That allows everyone to "silently pray" as they wish.

If one needs to be vocal, they should do it on their own time, in their own space.
 

Elora

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I pray silently all the time. And you can also pray without words.

What they probably meant was that the child wanted to pray out loud, and was prevented. Darn atheists have taken over public education.

Jesus set the pattern...

"But when you pray, go into your private room and, after shutting your door, pray to your Father who is in secret. Then your Father who looks on in secret will repay you."Matthew 6:6

When praying, Jesus’ disciples were not to imitate such hypocrites as the self-righteous Pharisees, whose public display of piety was nothing more than a pretense...Matthew 23:13-32
 

RAMOSS

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Oh yes, praying for a sick friend is so disruptive and insolent! It must not be tolerated!

it all depends on time and place. Being out loud in the middle of a class when a teacher is teaching is different that being in the lunch room for example.
 

HonestJoe

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Now I have to wonder, how can prayer be prevented?
Does it matter? Are you saying it's OK to restrict people's freedom if you claim there is a different way for them to do what they want in a way you find acceptable? You can be gay without getting married. You can drive without going over 40mph. You can eat without killing any animals.

If someone whats to pray in a form that includes spoken words, specific movement or anything else and they're not causing disruption or doing any harm, saying they can't do it that way is preventing them from praying. I don't think your technical semantics make it any better.
 

Sampson Simpson

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I think christians that make a scene about praying and being a holes. You don't have to clasp your hands, or get together in a group, or drop to your knees to pray, and the people that do that are just wanting to show off to everybody how religious they are or they want everybody to know they are praying. You don't have to make a spectacle to pray. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the bible even say as much?
 

Elora

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I think christians that make a scene about praying and being a holes. You don't have to clasp your hands, or get together in a group, or drop to your knees to pray, and the people that do that are just wanting to show off to everybody how religious they are or they want everybody to know they are praying. You don't have to make a spectacle to pray. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the bible even say as much?

Matthew 23:13-32...
 

Skeptic Bob

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Obviously you can’t stop someone from praying silently. We don’t have mindcreading technology...yet.

What I am less certain about are different religions’ requirements for prayer. For example, Muslims seem to be more strict on body position during prayer.
 

Good4Nothin

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Praying in school would offend the atheist snowflakes. They would cry to their parents that another kid actually PRAYED. To GOD. OH MY GOD! How horrible!
 

zyzygy

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Praying in school would offend the atheist snowflakes. They would cry to their parents that another kid actually PRAYED. To GOD. OH MY GOD! How horrible!

When I was in school it was the headmaster who prayed at morning assembly and we listened.
 

Omega Man

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When somebody feels compelled to audibly pray in my presence and/or the presence of others, I merely fold my hands (not a prayer fold, just clasping my fingers together as a normal gesture of remaining still and calm) and remain quiet. So long as nobody is forcing me to close my eyes or bow my head, it's all good.


OM
 

Dragonfly

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Praying in school would offend the atheist snowflakes. They would cry to their parents that another kid actually PRAYED. To GOD. OH MY GOD! How horrible!

Oh please, would you care to watch how many "christian snowflakes" there are when some Muslim kids want to lay down their prayer carpets and pray to Allah?

Or what about when some Haitian kids want to have a voodoo prayer session right before a big test? Triggered christian snowflakes anyone?

Or how about some nice Satanic chants? You want to talk "snow flakes"?

Stop with the nonsense.
 

Dragonfly

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If someone whats to pray in a form that includes spoken words, specific movement or anything else and they're not causing disruption or doing any harm, saying they can't do it that way is preventing them from praying. I don't think your technical semantics make it any better.

What?
There's no "technical semantics" here.

Can you seriously not think of a time where vocalized praying can be, and actually is a disruption?
 

holbritter

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Jesus set the pattern...

"But when you pray, go into your private room and, after shutting your door, pray to your Father who is in secret. Then your Father who looks on in secret will repay you."Matthew 6:6

When praying, Jesus’ disciples were not to imitate such hypocrites as the self-righteous Pharisees, whose public display of piety was nothing more than a pretense...Matthew 23:13-32


Lots of conflicting messages in the bible. You could find one to fit any argument.
 

HonestJoe

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What?
There's no "technical semantics" here.
I explained that in the paragraph you didn't quote.

Can you seriously not think of a time where vocalized praying can be, and actually is a disruption?
Of course. There are circumstances vocal prayer would be a disruption and circumstances where it wouldn't. There are circumstances silent prayer could be a disruption too. That is quite different from the point in your OP though.
 

Dragonfly

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marke

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Let me get this out of the way right up front, other than actually murdering/killing the person, can prayer be prevented?

So in a different thread I saw somebody post about how their child was "prevented from praying" in school for another classmate.

Now I have to wonder, how can prayer be prevented?

Does one actually have to vocalize their prayer for it to be "heard"?

Can't prayer be silent?

Can "god" not hear your thoughts? Must it be actually spoken out loud?

Does the out loud prayer carry more weight somehow?

Or as I would be more inclined to believe (pun intended), it's impossible to stop anyone from praying as there's no need to be audible about it.

Silent prayer is still prayer, and therefore nothing can ever be done to prevent it outside of physically killing the person.

Which is it?

I have heard of cases similar to the one where an atheistic agitator authority told someone under his authority that he could pray out loud in an event as long as he did not mention the name of Jesus. Some agitators just don't understand the facts. Christians are supposed to pray all the time, invoking the name of Jesus. Those who don't like it will just have to work around that fact.
 

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Let me get this out of the way right up front, other than actually murdering/killing the person, can prayer be prevented?

So in a different thread I saw somebody post about how their child was "prevented from praying" in school for another classmate.

Now I have to wonder, how can prayer be prevented?

Does one actually have to vocalize their prayer for it to be "heard"?

Can't prayer be silent?

Can "god" not hear your thoughts? Must it be actually spoken out loud?

Does the out loud prayer carry more weight somehow?

Or as I would be more inclined to believe (pun intended), it's impossible to stop anyone from praying as there's no need to be audible about it.

Silent prayer is still prayer, and therefore nothing can ever be done to prevent it outside of physically killing the person.

Which is it?

No more than killing Christmas.
 

HonestJoe

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From your perspective, what's the "point" of my OP?
You were presenting an argument that stopping someone praying the way they want doesn't count as "preventing them praying" because there are other ways to pray. I took that an an implication that preventing someone from praying the way they want is OK, regardless of whether they're causing any disruption or harm. If that wasn't the point, why bother making the distinction between types of prayer at all? It shouldn't matter how someone is praying or even if they're actually praying at all, the only relevant factor is whether they're causing a disruption or not.
 
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