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David Cameron tells Muslim Britain: stop tolerating extremists | Politics | The Guardian
Well done Cameron ... for once :thumbs:
David Cameron will today signal a sea-change in the government fight against home-grown terrorism, saying the state must confront, and not consort with, the non-violent Muslim groups that are ambiguous about British values such as equality between sexes, democracy and integration.
To belong in Britain is to believe in these values, he will say. Claiming the previous government had been the victim of fear and muddled thinking by backing a state-sponsored form of multiculturalism, the prime minister will state that his government "will no longer fund or share platforms with organisations that, while non-violent, are certainly in some cases part of the problem".
He will warn his audience: "Europe needs to wake up to what is happening in our own countries. We need to be absolutely clear on where the origins of these terrorist attacks lie – and that is the existence of an ideology, Islamist extremism."
This ideology he says, is entirely separate from Islam, and "at the furthest end includes those who back terrorism to promote their ultimate goal: an entire Islamist realm, governed by an interpretation of sharia".
I aprove of this speech. :thumbs:
and"...To belong in Britain is to believe in these values, he will say. Claiming the previous government had been the victim of fear and muddled thinking by backing a state-sponsored form of multiculturalism, the prime minister will state that his government "will no longer fund or share platforms with organisations that, while non-violent, are certainly in some cases part of the problem".
and"We need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism."
andCameron's aides, aware the speech may prove highly controversial, refused to identify the organisations in his sights, but it is clear one target is the Muslim Council of Britain
"We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values. So when a white person holds objectionable views – racism, for example – we rightly condemn them. But when equally unacceptable views or practices have come from someone who isn't white, we've been too cautious, frankly even fearful, to stand up to them."
He will warn his audience: "Europe needs to wake up to what is happening in our own countries. We need to be absolutely clear on where the origins of these terrorist attacks lie – and that is the existence of an ideology, Islamist extremism."
So do I. It's just a good thing he did not post those comments in this forum, though.
It's Tres gauche to suggest Islamist ideology is in any way responsible for Islamist's actions, and the making of such comments here would have surely opened him up to abuse at the hands of the dogmatic multiculturalists.
This ideology he says, is entirely separate from Islam
Perhaps it's OK when Lalia posts it/quotes it.
Many on this forum who would think this. Would not add:
So ofc it wouldn't be as welcomed.
Why do you think I congratulated him. He did not fall into the trap many do in this forum
and
andand
Yes Bravo!
But rather odd the above two posters are [now] cheering it unless they they think he only means "terrorism".
It's other posters in the Europe section, such as Myself, Gardener, Djoop, etc who've been the Bringing up much Wider "values" issue and being called "islamophobes" for it.
ie,
Poll: UK Muslims have ZERO tolerance of Homosexuality. 0-fer-500.
ihttp://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...zero-tolerance-homosexuality-0-fer-500-a.html
Read a few pages of the above if you want to see 'whos who' in this debate. Note the immediate attack/s.
So he's talking a Large Minority-to-maybe-Majority of Muslims who hold many of these Illiberal views and Koranic literalism. Such as wanting Sharia, penalty for anti-islamic speech, etc.
And of course talking about/objecting to multiculturalism and duplicity/hypocrisy by ostensible liberals.
"NOT just Terrorism." MY Mantra.
I have a hundred+ posts in the Europe section saying just that. Most heavily objected by many, including the two above.
Perhaps it's OK when Lalia posts it/quotes it.
But someone should now alert alexa, Red Dave, PeteEU, etc, etc, that two more have changed sides in the blink of an eyelash.
I'm special :shrug:
Many on this forum who would think this. Would not add:
So ofc it wouldn't be as welcomed.
Why do you think I congratulated him. He did not fall into the trap many do in this forum
You're better looking than mbig. :mrgreen:
and what trap is that?
Actually, my understanding of things has gone more like this...LOL
Mbig may surprise us
Oh the usual that we have seen a million times.
Something with Political Islam occurs = Certain posters jump in with "Look religion of peace at it again!!! SO EVILZ"
Kinda gets boring and the routine is so common, I just blank out a huge number of posters when it comes to Islam.
David Cameron. I like him on this issue. He has not blanket judged or blamed all Muslims or Islam for the actions of the minority who are politically motivated. Infact he has done the opposite, moderates should stand with him on this and help him.
If he removes MCB, I'll like him even more
Oh the usual that we have seen a million times.
Something with Political Islam occurs = Certain posters jump in with "Look religion of peace at it again!!! SO EVILZ"
Kinda gets boring and the routine is so common, I just blank out a huge number of posters when it comes to Islam.
David Cameron. I like him on this issue. He has not blanket judged or blamed all Muslims or Islam for the actions of the minority who are politically motivated. Infact he has done the opposite, moderates should stand with him on this and help him.
If he removes MCB, I'll like him even more
Really dont see the difference.
Actually, my understanding of things has gone more like this...
On this site...BAD...
"Extremist Muslims are slaughtering innocents"
Not all Muslims are extremist!
"Yes...but even those that are not extremist do nothing to police or govern those within thier faith system. They too are responsible! They must do more to stand up against those individuals."
Well Christians have murdered and slaughtered millions. and besides...you are anti-muslim and a racist!!
Now...with this OP...
Mr Cameron-"Extremist findamentalism is the problem and we must call on other Muslims to no longer tolerate extremists"
Well done Mr Cameron...what a good speech.
Really dont see the difference.
If he removes MCB, I'll like him even more
My understanding differs.
It usually has gone like this:
*some sort of attack/event occurs*
"Religion of peace at it again. Look what those Muslims do"
Not all Muslims agree with the Extremists. They are the minority
"That is a trick because according to Islam, you can decieve to infiltrate the West".
No ... that is a Shia concept which, once again. Are a minority
"All Muslims support stonings and things because Sharia states it's support"
Sharia law is a complex law and is based on interpretation. No two Muslims interpretation is the same
"You are lying, all scholars agree on it"
For the last time, Islam does not have a unifying body nor will it because we are not a centralized religion similar to that of Catholics.
"So why doesn't moderate Muslims stop it?! It's because you support it secretly. There is no such thing as a Moderate Muslim anyway"
How do you propose we Moderate Muslims achieve in something the US has failed?
"It is your job to police your people".
Then I ask you again, how do I remove all terrorists
"LEAVE ISLAM, IT'S THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL".
Yeah, sorry. No.
"Islam is a religion of violence and bloodshed."
All religions have violence in their history and I agree, Islam is just as bad as others but do not pretend Islam is the only religion which has had bloodshed
"Stop trying to change the subject to cover it up!! The Qu'ran should be changed"
The Qu'ran cannot be changed but I do support a reinterpretation of it.
"So you then support this then [enter vague Qu'ran paragraph]. Your people support violence against Non Muslims. That is why you will not stop terrorists"
I will not actively go abroad to search for terrorists. That is not my job.
"SEE, SEE! You support terrorists deep down and you know it!"
*sigh*. Yes, I support terrorists deep down, I worship Osama Bin Laden and I'm planning a terrorist attack right now and I dance naked to the tune of Hitler
*leaves thread*
Again what has the MCB specificallly done here? Im know little about them but they seem pretty innocent to me.
VanceMack;1059266571Imagine a thread where the actions of extremist muslims were pointed out said:Which would be pretty pointless, this is "Debate Politics" not 'state the obvious and go away' what is up for disscussion is not whether these actions are moral but why they occur. To explain or understand these actions is not to excuse them.
Which would be pretty pointless, this is "Debate Politics" not 'state the obvious and go away' what is up for disscussion is not whether these actions are moral but why they occur. To explain or understand these actions is not to excuse them.
mbig could be gorgeous muslim girl, and laila a redneck from middle america for all we know.
I dont disagree that what you said sometimes occurs. There is a reason I very seldom go to ME-tarded threads anymore. However MY impression is that there are people here that pretend fundamentalist Islam simply isnt that big of a deal...its only a small fraction...and besides...blah blah blah. (you took much more of your Saturday typing out the daily tripe than I plan to...)
Imagine...
Imagine a thread where the actions of extremist muslims were pointed out, and instead of some rambling blathering excuse on the defense of, the response was simply..."you are right...what scumbags. I agree...ALL should do more to stand against such animals." End thread. No need to apologize for them, no need to excuse or justify. A simple acknowledgement of the obvious...similar to what was done here in the OP.
Caught me out have you? :lamo
No one ever says they are not scumbags.
But there is always those few posters who post some of those gems I have highlighted or claim it is somehow something all Muslims support which starts the arguments in many of the Islam-related threads.
Not whether Islamists are good or bad
Actually, what happens more often is that posters discuss Islamists and are then attacked as if they HAD indicated all Muslims.
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