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Calls mount to ban Greek far-right party Golden Dawn


possibly he's referring to something like this:

<<<Greece's far-right Golden Dawn party is increasingly assuming the role of law enforcement officers on the streets of the bankrupt country, with mounting evidence that Athenians are being openly directed by police to seek help from the neo-Nazi group, analysts, activists and lawyers say.

In return, a growing number of Greek crime victims have come to see the party, whose symbol bears an uncanny resemblance to the swastika, as a "protector".

One victim of crime, an eloquent US-trained civil servant, told the Guardian of her family's shock at being referred to the party when her mother recently called the police following an incident involving Albanian immigrants in their downtown apartment block.

"They immediately said if it's an issue with immigrants go to Golden Dawn," said the 38-year-old, who fearing for her job and safety, spoke only on condition of anonymity. "We don't condone Golden Dawn but there is an acute social problem that has come with the breakdown of feeling of security among lower and middle class people in the urban centre," she said. "If the police and official mechanism can't deliver and there is no recourse to justice, then you have to turn to other maverick solutions.>>>


Greek police send crime victims to neo-Nazi 'protectors' | World news | The Guardian

the issues facing a society are not the same as a political organizations solution

example: pressures due to unchecked immigration would be an issue. The golden dawn's solution to this would be their policy towards immigrants. You can recognize the former without supporting the later
 

How extremely dishonest of you. I said quite clearly that they should be combatted on all fronts.

If you were at all sincere about your distaste for "freedom-hating, pre-enlightenment advocates of totalitarianism" you would not have such a clear track record of calling people names like "Islamophobe" for criticizing Islamists. They are cut from the same cloth.
 

That may very well be true, but those bans were in the pre-internet era and pre-mass communication era.

I hope that you agree with me that in these times, when communication is so easy to make, any argument can find it's way into the public dialogue a lot easier... and the only way to prevent it is by putting in place legislation that would cripple free speech on the internet and it's utility for good, democratic processes.

I would argue that their recent outbursts into the public awareness has more to do with the fact that they got a good PR team and know how to present themselves in this day and age more than anything.
All I'm saying is that in this day and age, rules and battlegrounds are changing and the stupid way to go about fighting this war is through bans. It's the easiest way to cripple free speech and do exactly what the extremists want you to do.
 

Not sure how accurate it is, but wikipedia records that 10% of the greek labor force is comprised of immigrants (apparently these do not include undocumented workers according to the wiki page) and that 25% of wage earners are migrants .

If those numbers are true, it's hard to see how they would manage not to put pressure on the native community

PS my understanding was that when the GRP was outlawed members just moved to other political groups and worked to push them inline with the old views of the GRP
 
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German guy said:
If they match the criteria I stated above, yes, absolutely.
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Good, according to you many unions can be banned then. Personally I'm not in favour of this because I believe in democracy, rather than in authoritarianism.
 

As far as solutions are concerned, I also think many people confuse notions as to how best to deal with these loathsome people with some sort of tacit support. Seems to me that the best way to deal with them is to take away any possible appeal they might have, and in order to do that, the subject of immigration needs to dealt with in a candid and pragmatic way that actually addresses the concerns of those who might be tempted to support them otherwise.
 

Yes, this.

There's a cause and effect issue to deal with. The Greek political establishment has to tackle the issues that GD have used to garner support. I don't believe immigration is Greece's No.1 issue, although there appears to be a strand of popular opinion that seeks to portray it as such, and that is a standard right-wing strategy. The horrific economic situation was not caused by immigration, it was caused by catastrophic mismanagement over a number of decades and endemic political corruption. Immigrants and minority communities are often used as scapegoats, viz Germany in the 30s, Rwanda, Armenians in the collapsing Ottoman empire, Roma in post-89 E. Europe.

The effect, i.e. the existence of an organised neo-Nazi movement assuming and allegedly supported by the functions of the Greek police; street violence and targetting of migrant and 'undesirable' elements of Greek society by the thugs and the stated intention of cleansing Greek society of un-Hellenic influences is something that requires more than political argument. What that is, is up to Greek society to decide. Banning or other measures can only be effective according to local conditions.
 
Andalublue said:
The horrific economic situation was not caused by immigration, it was caused by catastrophic mismanagement over a number of decades and endemic political corruption.
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Certainly i doubt the greek economy is in the ****ter due to immigrants, but the type of pressures such economic conditions exert on a people can certainly be exacerbated by poor immigration policy
 

That's horrible, and not even remotely true. You're well off on your percentages of those who are sources of stupidity and ignorance, and even further off on those whose deaths would be a blessing for the world.
 
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