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California becomes 8th U.S. state to make universal mail-in ballots permanent

And mail in ballots are filled out in person with the opportunity to be overseen by someone paying or or coercing a certain vote. We went to a secret vote because that led to corruption.
Just document when mail-in voter coercion or buying votes has been a widespread problem in the last 50 years and I will reconsider. From where I sit, you and others have decided that you are against mail-in voting for political reasons and then search for arguments to show they are a problem.
 
Great for the citizens of CA but it doesn't help the voters in oppressive red States.
 
Mail in voting opens up the vote to coercion. Learn from history
Are you suggesting that mail in voting in States like Orgeon, Washington, Colorado and Hawaii are suspect in terms of integrity? Maybe the conservative voters in those States will have the courage to comment on how secure they feel their State elections are.
 
I hope they do it well. I think that Mail-In should be standard across the 50 States, and Colorado has the best system of them all. So hopefully, CA does this well too. When the system is constructed properly, it is clearly the superior voting method.
Lol. Of course you want the ability for left wing activists to gather thousands of ballots at a time and deliver them themselves.
 
Are you suggesting that mail in voting in States like Orgeon, Washington, Colorado and Hawaii are suspect in terms of integrity? Maybe the conservative voters in those States will have the courage to comment on how secure they feel their State elections are.
Yes. Look up the 2004 Washington governor’s election where mail in ballots were used to steal an election.

The solution to being caught was for democrats to abolish polling places so as to make sure it was never so close again.
 
Lol. Of course you want the ability for left wing activists to gather thousands of ballots at a time and deliver them themselves.
If those ballots were completed by registered voters, who cares who delivers them?
 
Well you can have your shopping delivered and do you banking online. But you need to be physically present, at this point, for a doctor to evaluate you. So you may need to do that. You can do much of what is necessary with the DMV online as well.
And much of that probably should be returned to in person as well. Online shopping is just a way for big corporations to take money that used to go to medium sized ones that employed people. I would end online shopping with puntitive taxes if it were up to me.
 
If those ballots were completed by registered voters, who cares who delivers them?
You can’t possibly prove it one way or the other.

But that’s the point. The democrats want to maintain this fiction that no suspicious voting ever occurs. So they create a system that purposefully makes proving fraud difficult and then say “well look you have no evidence our ballot harvesters did anything to these ballots, no you cannot questions them, or have poll watchers follow them, or anything else. Because it’s too transparent for that”
 
Awesome!
Id like every state to do this
Every state should also pass voter ID bills as long as its actually about VOTER ID and outlaw gerrymandering or have it done by multiple outside orgs

all current government accepted IDs should be valid for voting and if one isn't free one needs to be free and made readily available at many places including the polling place.
If the bills were actually based on ID we could have a nationwide vote by mail and voter id laws next year IMO

but for some strange reason so many Voter ID bills
limit early voting
limit mail voting
limit absentee voting
redraw districts
clos and combined polling place
limit days you can vote
outlaw bussing
etc etc . . .why?

Good news. I rather liked how the recall election was handled - it was very convenient for my family.
 
Just too damn lazy to show up, in person, with identification to vote. A system that has been secure and successful forever. Working within that scenario I hate food shopping, standing in line at the bank, or waiting in the doctor's office. A trip to the emergency room can be a nightmare and how much fun is it to deal with DMV?
All of these things are inconvenient and just like your mail-in voting scheme should be corrected by a similar stay-at-home system. God forbid any lives are the least bit difficult. I want to stay home in my Barkalounger waiting for everyone to cater to me. LOL
See, conservatives argue this all the time. They think "voting is supposed to be hard" is some kind of good reasoning. It's insane.
 
Lol. Of course you want the ability for left wing activists to gather thousands of ballots at a time and deliver them themselves.

... people volunteering to improve the logistical efficiency of our voting system? Yeah that sounds great.

You need a better argument than "well voting should be hard because I want it to be hard."
 
See, conservatives argue this all the time. They think "voting is supposed to be hard" is some kind of good reasoning. It's insane.
It should require effort and prior planning.
 
... people volunteering to improve the logistical efficiency of our voting system? Yeah that sounds great.
Logistical efficiency is far greater when you have polling sites.
 
Logistical efficiency is far greater when you have polling sites.

No it isn't. Collection of votes can be far more centralized with ballot harvesting. Voting sites require far more paid government employees.
 
No it isn't. Collection of votes can be far more centralized with ballot harvesting. Voting sites require far more paid government employees.
No, they don’t. In most cases polling site staff are volunteers.

Of course what is more efficient with ballot harvesting is deciding which ballots to “lose” or to “alter to insure voter intention is followed”
 
It should require effort and prior planning
Why? I would agree it should require thought and understanding your options but it ought not to require a person to take time off work, travel any distance, stand in long lines regardless of the weather. Voting needs to be secure not difficult.
 
Why? I would agree it should require thought and understanding your options but it ought not to require a person to take time off work, travel any distance, stand in long lines regardless of the weather. Voting needs to be secure not difficult.
Why not? Regular elections are the same date every two years. It is not difficult to take time off once every two years.

People living in cities (which seem to support mail voting the most) have to travel the least to actually go to a polling place.
 
Why not? Regular elections are the same date every two years. It is not difficult to take time off once every two years.

People living in cities (which seem to support mail voting the most) have to travel the least to actually go to a polling place.
You are either being contrarian or live in upper rubber boot, retired and of means.
 
No, they don’t. In most cases polling site staff are volunteers.
There are paid election people and also there's way more people involved. Ballot harvesting allows single sites to cover much larger areas. Universal mail-in ballots improves things dramatically, you don't need the sites at all.

Of course what is more efficient with ballot harvesting is deciding which ballots to “lose” or to “alter to insure voter intention is followed”
Fun fact, part of the ACORN fake scandal was that ACORN was turning in voter registrations that were obviously fraudulent. Like, "Mickey Mouse" registering to vote. Here's the thing: ACORN was legally required to turn in those ballots even knowing they were fraudulent. The reason that law exists is that Republicans got caught throwing out ballots from minority neighborhoods.

Of course, these sorts of issues are extremely rare, despite the right wing's attempt to pretend that voter fraud is rampant. You want to destroy voter fraud? Drown it with a flood of legitimate votes.
 
There are paid election people and also there's way more people involved. Ballot harvesting allows single sites to cover much larger areas. Universal mail-in ballots improves things dramatically, you don't need the sites at all.


Fun fact, part of the ACORN fake scandal was that ACORN was turning in voter registrations that were obviously fraudulent. Like, "Mickey Mouse" registering to vote. Here's the thing: ACORN was legally required to turn in those ballots even knowing they were fraudulent. The reason that law exists is that Republicans got caught throwing out ballots from minority neighborhoods.

Of course, these sorts of issues are extremely rare, despite the right wing's attempt to pretend that voter fraud is rampant. You want to destroy voter fraud? Drown it with a flood of legitimate votes.
So ACORN was turning in fraudulent ballots by your own admission?

That’s an argument to just not have taxpayer funded groups, or any politically interested party, or any middleman at all doing voter registration.

It is easy and requires no middlemen to register to vote.
 
You can’t possibly prove it one way or the other.

But that’s the point. The democrats want to maintain this fiction that no suspicious voting ever occurs. So they create a system that purposefully makes proving fraud difficult and then say “well look you have no evidence our ballot harvesters did anything to these ballots, no you cannot questions them, or have poll watchers follow them, or anything else. Because it’s too transparent for that”
First, election boards prove the valid of mail-in ballots routinely.

Second, your side is all about projection, spending a year claiming the fiction that there was election fraud when there wasn’t — and then saying it’s all about the Democrats.

Third, Democrats don’t have to prove ballots were not tampered. Those claiming they were tampered with have to prove their claim.
 
First, election boards prove the valid of mail-in ballots routinely.

Second, your side is all about projection, spending a year claiming the fiction that there was election fraud when there wasn’t — and then saying it’s all about the Democrats.

Third, Democrats don’t have to prove ballots were not tampered. Those claiming they were tampered with have to prove their claim.
All they have to prove is they a signature is on the ballot. They don’t have the ability or desire to investigate whether they were filled out by the actual voter
 
All they have to prove is they a signature is on the ballot. They don’t have the ability or desire to investigate whether they were filled out by the actual voter
Are you really suggesting that voters would sign a ballot that someone else completed, marking different candidates then they prefer? I would contend that the theories are getting more and more far-fetched.
 
Are you really suggesting that voters would sign a ballot that someone else completed, marking different candidates then they prefer? I would contend that the theories are getting more and more far-fetched.
I personally know people who’ve claimed just to fill out relatives ballots themselves and mail them in.
 
I personally know people who’ve claimed just to fill out relatives ballots themselves and mail them in.
I did that for my mother when she was in a nursing home but only for candidates she wanted. Just because someone is ill or 95, like my mother, doesn’t mean they have to trek down to the polls or lose their right to vote.
 
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