But God Didn’t Say That: Religious Community Members Talk God and Abortion

[bluesmoke]

Back in the day we were called the "people of the book". Its our book, we know what it says, you dont. You prove to me that you know what you're talking about with evidence. The burden of proof is on you, not me.

How can I prove something that isn't there, being no OT or NT Scripture, that is against abortion? No scripture is there on the subject. If the Evangelical or whatever Christians try to turn over the right of a woman's, incl Christians', right to abortion, how is it you can't grasp that those rights, of Christians, are being trampled on, by Christians? I don't need to provide evidence that a triangle has 3 sides, the earth revolves around the sun and the moon around the earth. If you can't see what is there, which is obvious, nor recognize that one cannot prove what is not there, because it isn't known to be anywhere, then you don't deserve any evidence. My claims stand as written.

 

[bluesmoke]

The Bible doesn't say anything about God saying those words. Jeremiah said he had a dream about God saying those words to him. This is not a biblical prohibition against abortion.

Neither would it be a prohibition had God said those words.

 

[code1211]

Then refute what I said with evidence. If you can't refute my claim, it stands as written. Your off-handed comment does not supply any evidence, except evidence of your ungraciousness.

There are plenty of references Biblically about loving your neighbor and so forth.

Scripture indicates that the unborn are known as individuals by God before birth.

Science happens to indicate that the DNA in both of the original two cells of an individual is identical to the DNA in each of the other 30 or so Trillion cells created as the individual grows.

One of the Commandments instructs, "Thou shalt not kill".

Connecting the dots on this is pretty easy to do. There are various ways to kill a person at various stages of their lives. Not all of them are catalogued in the Bible and specifically proscribed.

I'm pretty sure that drinking to excess, jumping in your car, driving like a moron through wall of a school and killing several children and their teacher is not specifically defined in the Bible.

It is generally considered to be a bad thing and falls under the general advice to not kill.

Of course, I could be wrong.

 

[minnie616]

Do you know any other verses besides the one you cherry picked?

Try it, let me know how it works for you.

Of course.

The Bible mentions the breath of life multiple times ot just once.

In 1968, Christianity Today published a special issue on contraception and abortion, among evangelical thinkers at the time. In the leading article, professor Bruce Waltke, of the famously conservative Dallas Theological Seminary, explained the Bible plainly teaches that life begins at birth:

“God does not regard the fetus as a soul, no matter how far gestation has progressed. The Law plainly exacts: 'If a man kills any human life he will be put to death' (Lev. 24:17).
But according to Exodus 21:22–24, the destruction of the fetus is not a capital offense…

Clearly, then, in contrast to the mother, the fetus is not reckoned as a soul.”

 

[weaver2]

Scripture indicates that the unborn are known as individuals by God before birth.
One of the Commandments instructs, "Thou shalt not kill".
There are various ways to kill a person at various stages of their lives. Not all of them are catalogued in the Bible and specifically proscribed.

OK, leaving out your strange concept of DNA science, let's explore this topic strictly from a biblical focus. Let's say God knows each fetus as an individual and He is watching over each one as it grows in utero. He must then recognize when an "unborn baby" in not developing in a way that will allow it to survive after it is born and He lets a miscarriage happen, presumably because He wants children to have healthy lives. This happen in one out of 4 pregnancies so God recognizes that ending a pregnancy that will only produce misery and pain for a child is a good thing.

How is it any different when a woman and her family recognize that they are not capable, for what ever reason, of providing the healthy, stable, secure environment a child needs and abort the fetus at about the same time as God does when He allows a miscarriage of an unhealthy fetus. Why else would God have given people very sophisticated and complex brains if it was not to make difficult decisions about living intelligently.

Those that claim abortion is a sin against God need to explain why it is intelligent behavior to destroy this gift of God by bringing into an environment that the woman and her family have said is not stable or secure, where it is not wanted and they cannot support or love this child causing the child to live in misery and pain.

 

[code1211]

The Bible doesn't say anything about God saying those words. Jeremiah said he had a dream about God saying those words to him. This is not a biblical prohibition against abortion.

Zebras also have DNA unique to each individual zebra. That's why no zebra has the same stripes. Having unique DNA does not make a fetus a human being.

Translation: Stone age religion is more important that the right of a woman to assess the resources of her family in making a decision to keep or abort an unplanned pregnancy.

Jeremiah relayed what he felt was the inspired word of God. There is no reference to abortion. None was made. None was intended.

Human DNA is not Zebra DNA.

No reference in my post attached in any way to abortion.

 

[weaver2]

OK, leaving out your strange concept of DNA science, let's explore this topic strictly from a biblical focus. Let's say God knows each fetus as an individual and He is watching over each one as it grows in utero. He must then recognize when an "unborn baby" in not developing in a way that will allow it to survive after it is born and He lets a miscarriage happen, presumably because He wants children to have healthy lives. This happen in one out of 4 pregnancies so God recognizes that ending a pregnancy that will only produce misery and pain for a child is a good thing.

How is it any different when a woman and her family recognize that they are not capable, for what ever reason, of providing the healthy, stable, secure environment a child needs and abort the fetus at about the same time as God does when He allows a miscarriage of an unhealthy fetus. Why else would God have given people very sophisticated and complex brains if it was not to make difficult decisions about living intelligently.

Those that claim abortion is a sin against God need to explain why it is intelligent behavior to destroy this gift of God by bringing into an environment that the woman and her family have said is not stable or secure, where it is not wanted and they cannot support or love this child causing the child to live in misery and pain.

The short biblical version:
Jeremiah proves that God knows every child as an individual before it is born.
God doesn't want children born into misery and pain and so he spontaneously aborts unhealthy fetuses
God gave us complex and sophisticated brains for a reason
He expects us to use these brains to recognize unhealthy environments and abort a fetus that will live in misery and pain as an unwanted child

 

[minnie616]

Jeremiah relayed what he felt was the inspired word of God. There is no reference to abortion. None was made. None was intended.

Human DNA is not Zebra DNA.

No reference in my post attached in any way to abortion

There is a quote in the Bible where Jerimiah said he wished he had been killed in his mother’s womb.

WHY?

So that his mother’s womb would have been for ever great.

Jeremiah cursed the day he was born saying...

"Cursed be the day on which I was born! The day when my mother bore me, let it not be blessed! Cursed be the man who brought the news to my father, 'A son is born to you', making him very glad. Let that man be like the cities which the Lord overthrew without pity; let him hear a cry in the morning and an alarm at noon, because he did not kill me in the womb; so my mother would have been my grave, and her womb for ever great." (Jeremiah 20:14-17)

 

[MamboDervish]

With respect, that passage of breathing life into the nostrils is a one-off.

You are mistaken. In fact, the reference to the soul entering and leaving the body with the breath actually occurs roughly 30 times in the bible. It's easy to look up. Take a biblical concordance - you can find one on line - and look up the words breath, breathe, breathed and breathing, and jot down the chapter and verse for each reference given. You will find roughly 70 in total. Then look each of them up and you'll see that nearly half of them reference the soul entering or leaving the body with the breath.

There was only one human created by that method in the Bible of which I'm aware. Was there another fully assembled adult made out of mud into which God Breathed life?

See above.

In Jeremiah, God says very clearly that He knew Jeremiah in the womb.

And how should one interpret that? If the god of the bible is truly omniscient - "all knowing" - then that god knows all of creation, throughout every moment, throughout all of time. There would never be a point that he did not know Jeremiah - or anyone else, you and I included. Unless you think that god is not omniscient - not "all knowing" - but is instead discovering the world as it unfolds, surprised by the events and outcomes. Which is it? Either the god of the bible is all knowing - or he isn't. He can't be both.

All of that aside, though, by now, anyone who understands DNA understands that the unique DNA of an individual is the same in either of their original two cells as it is in any of their 30 or so trillion cells in the full grown adult.

Unique DNA applies to a body - not a soul. (Unless you're suggesting that science will discover the DNA of a soul anytime soon, then DNA references simply don't apply to the subject at hand. )

The DNA of an unoccupied body is irrelevant, whether that body is kept alive by mechanical life support, long after it has been vacated by the occupant, or whether that body is a fetus that has yet to be occupied. Science has known for decades that bodies can exist "alive" without any self-directed animating force - without any will - bodies devoid of the intention that comes from having an occupying soul.

As we learn more of the actual science, the stone age interpretations that might have been based on divine guidance seem to make more sense.

No. As we learn more of the actual science, the stone age interpretations that might have been based on divine guidance, simply were not. This is not to say that ancient texts like the bible are devoid of the wisdom of the elders of their time. There's plenty of learn from such texts, as long as one has the sense to know their limitations.

 

[weaver2]

With respect, that passage of breathing life into the nostrils is a one-off.

Genesis 6:17
And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Job 33:4
“The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Psalms 33:6
By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Psalms 135:17
They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths.

Psalms 150:6
Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

Isaiah 42:5
Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Ezekiel 37:5-6
5: Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6: And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 37:10
So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

John 20:22
And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

There was only one human created by that method in the Bible of which I'm aware. Was there another fully assembled adult made out of mud into which God Breathed life?

I would say those verses are pretty clearly about God breathing life into people. Which would mean life begins with birth when breath is given to a fetus.

 

[Atreus21]

Samantha Bee has done a segment on her show that basically says what I have been saying for decades.

Please watch this

Thou shalt not murder? Is that not in the bible?

 

[minnie616]

Thou shalt not murder? Is that not in the bible?

Abortion is the loss of a pregnacy.
Not murder.

Even the Bible does not count the loss of a fetus as murder.
……
In 1968, Christianity Today published a special issue on contraception and abortion, among evangelical thinkers at the time. In the leading article, professor Bruce Waltke, of the famously conservative Dallas Theological Seminary, explained the Bible plainly teaches that life begins at birth:

“God does not regard the fetus as a soul, no matter how far gestation has progressed. The Law plainly exacts: 'If a man kills any human life he will be put to death' (Lev. 24:17).
But according to Exodus 21:22–24, the destruction of the fetus is not a capital offense…

Clearly, then, in contrast to the mother, the fetus is not reckoned as a soul.”

 

[MamboDervish]

Genesis 6:17
And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Job 33:4
“The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Psalms 33:6
By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Psalms 135:17
They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths.

Psalms 150:6
Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

Isaiah 42:5
Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Ezekiel 37:5-6
5: Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6: And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 37:10
So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

John 20:22
And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.


I would say those verses are pretty clearly about God breathing life into people. Which would mean life begins with birth when breath is given to a fetus.

I can't THANK YOU enough for your noble efforts generating that post, weaver2! It's probably been 30+ years since I originally investigated the role of the breath in ancient texts, for completely unrelated reasons, and I didn't want to have to do it all again. But the gist of the message couldn't be clearer. If a person claims to worship the god of the bible, then how many times does he have to tell them something before they get it? According to him, "WE" don't get here until our birth day - our breath day - and if we live to be 150 years old, we will still never celebrate the date of our body's conception.

May you live long enough to have the breath to blow out 150 candles on your birthday!
Thanks again.

 

[Atreus21]

Abortion is the loss of a pregnancy.

No, that's miscarriage, and it's accidental.

Not murder.

Murder is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. The unborn are human beings, and abortion deliberately kills them. Thus, the obvious conclusion.

Even the Bible does not count the loss of a fetus as murder.
……
In 1968, Christianity Today published a special issue on contraception and abortion, among evangelical thinkers at the time. In the leading article, professor Bruce Waltke, of the famously conservative Dallas Theological Seminary, explained the Bible plainly teaches that life begins at birth:

“God does not regard the fetus as a soul, no matter how far gestation has progressed. The Law plainly exacts: 'If a man kills any human life he will be put to death' (Lev. 24:17).
But according to Exodus 21:22–24, the destruction of the fetus is not a capital offense…

Clearly, then, in contrast to the mother, the fetus is not reckoned as a soul.”

This is well-worn ground. Abortion advocates have misread Exodus 21 due to bad translations, which is addressed here, if you're interested.




In short, abortion advocates assume the passage refers to a miscarriage resulting in a dead baby. It doesn't. It says if the baby is alive, then there are fines and whatever else the husband demands. But if the child and/or mother is killed, then you are to take life for life, etc. He goes into the original Hebrew later in the article, and the particular Hebrew words for miscarriage vs premature birth, to support this interpretation.

Furthermore, God did not put Cain to death, who certainly was a murderer. Was Cain soulless? The same passage prescribes death to adulterers, yet Christ himself saved Mary Magdalene from execution.

This is clearly not a comprehensive interpretation of the bible's stance on the issue. At no time does the bible say the unborn may be killed without consequence. Rather, Bruce Waltke did what everyone does: Find a few passages which support a pre-intended conclusion, and cite those.

 

[Liberal7360]

Do you know any other verses besides the one you cherry picked?

Try it, let me know how it works for you.

Ok I'll take your reply as you can't admit you can't quote any scriptures that outlaw or say abortion is wrong.

There is a reason why you can't.

There aren't any.

Meanwhile I gave you the scriptures that gives instructions on how to perform an abortion.

I just wish that christian anti choices would stop lying what is about in their bible and stop trying to force their religious views on our nation.

It's violating mine and millions of other Americans right to freedom of religion.

 

[choiceone]

People on this thread need at least two references of importance. One is:

https://tmcdaniel.palmerseminary.edu/LXX_EXO_%2021_22-23.pdf

In this essay, McDaniel does a very fancy multilingual analysis of Exodus 21: 22-25 etc., which shows that the Septaguint and Masoretic texts give different words for what is translated in the KJV as "mischief," but is related instead to a very similar word related to something else. This essay is extremely good and pretty much proves that the pro-choice interpretation of this Biblical passage is correct.

For the second references, see my next post. . . .

 

[choiceone]

This is for Jeremiah 1: 5. Above, some people referred to this as saying God said "I knew you when you were in your mother's womb," whether in someone's dream or not. He never said this. He said, "Before you were formed in your mother's womb" or perhaps "Before you were in your mother's womb, I knew you." Here are two translations.

Jeremiah 1:5 NIV;KJV - “Before I formed you in the womb I - Bible Gateway

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

www.biblegateway.com

Obviously, this can be interpreted more than one way. I'm guessing it does not refute either position on abortion.

 

[it's just me]

Ok I'll take your reply as you can't admit you can't quote any scriptures that outlaw or say abortion is wrong.

There is a reason why you can't.

There aren't any.

Meanwhile I gave you the scriptures that gives instructions on how to perform an abortion.

I just wish that christian anti choices would stop lying what is about in their bible and stop trying to force their religious views on our nation.

It's violating mine and millions of other Americans right to freedom of religion.

I can , but I'm replying on an Amazon tablet with limited cut and paste capability, and it doesn't sound you'd be open to real answers anyway.

 

[Liberal7360]

I can , but I'm replying on an Amazon tablet with limited cut and paste capability, and it doesn't sound you'd be open to real answers anyway.

You can copy and paste a link on an iPad easily.

Just put your finger on the address on the address bar and hold it there for a few seconds. A small menu will pop up with one of the options being "copy." Click on it. Now you have copied the address. Then go to where you want to paste it. Put your finger down and hold it there. Another small menu will pop up with an option of "paste." Click on it. The address will paste where you pressed.

Or if you look on the top of the page in the right corner, you will see a small box with an arrow coming out of the top. Press it. It will give you a menu to copy that link. Then you can paste it the same way you did the other in wherever you want to paste it.

I've been using computers since I was in middle school in the early 70s. My parents bought one of the first home computers in the late 70s, a Tandy. My parents were the first people I taught how to use a computer.

I've owned a Mac computer in my home since 1987. There isn't much about Apple products I don't know.

You are wrong, I do want to see and read it. I wouldn't have asked for it if I didn't want it.

So, the ball is in your court.

 

[minnie616]

No, that's miscarriage, and it's accidental.

The medical term for miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion.
Abortion is the ending of pregnancy before a pregnancy ends in the birth of a newborn.
Very few abortions are intended abortions.
A spontaneous abortion is often referred as a miscarriage by lay people.

A missed abortion is the medical term when the embryo/ fetus has died in the womb due to natural causes but has not expelled in a timely manner.

A septic abortion means the pregnancy has turned septic and the fetus needs to be removed quickly because it threatens the woman’s life with a septic infection.

 

[code1211]

Of course.

The Bible mentions the breath of life multiple times ot just once.

In 1968, Christianity Today published a special issue on contraception and abortion, among evangelical thinkers at the time. In the leading article, professor Bruce Waltke, of the famously conservative Dallas Theological Seminary, explained the Bible plainly teaches that life begins at birth:

“God does not regard the fetus as a soul, no matter how far gestation has progressed. The Law plainly exacts: 'If a man kills any human life he will be put to death' (Lev. 24:17).
But according to Exodus 21:22–24, the destruction of the fetus is not a capital offense…

Clearly, then, in contrast to the mother, the fetus is not reckoned as a soul.”

I'm not finding that direction in the passage you cite in the highlight.

Here is that passage:

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 21:22-24 - New International Version

“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand...

www.biblegateway.com

<snip>

Exodus 21:22-24

New International Version

​

"22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,"
<snip>
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+21&version=NIV

 

[it's just me]

You can copy and paste a link on an iPad easily.

Just put your finger on the address on the address bar and hold it there for a few seconds. A small menu will pop up with one of the options being "copy." Click on it. Now you have copied the address. Then go to where you want to paste it. Put your finger down and hold it there. Another small menu will pop up with an option of "paste." Click on it. The address will paste where you pressed.

Or if you look on the top of the page in the right corner, you will see a small box with an arrow coming out of the top. Press it. It will give you a menu to copy that link. Then you can paste it the same way you did the other in wherever you want to paste it.

I've been using computers since I was in middle school in the early 70s. My parents bought one of the first home computers in the late 70s, a Tandy. My parents were the first people I taught how to use a computer.

I've owned a Mac computer in my home since 1987. There isn't much about Apple products I don't know.

You are wrong, I do want to see and read it. I wouldn't have asked for it if I didn't want it.

So, the ball is in your court.

Yes, I am familiar with the process. It's nice to hear about your expertise with computers. I, on the other hand, have been doing apologetics for as long as you have been playing with apple computers. I even became a Priest a few years ago. People here dont like that much because they think they are the smartest beings in the world. This argument comes up now and then and its just as lame this time as it was the last time.

Ill get back to you.

 

[code1211]

OK, leaving out your strange concept of DNA science, let's explore this topic strictly from a biblical focus. Let's say God knows each fetus as an individual and He is watching over each one as it grows in utero. He must then recognize when an "unborn baby" in not developing in a way that will allow it to survive after it is born and He lets a miscarriage happen, presumably because He wants children to have healthy lives. This happen in one out of 4 pregnancies so God recognizes that ending a pregnancy that will only produce misery and pain for a child is a good thing.

How is it any different when a woman and her family recognize that they are not capable, for what ever reason, of providing the healthy, stable, secure environment a child needs and abort the fetus at about the same time as God does when He allows a miscarriage of an unhealthy fetus. Why else would God have given people very sophisticated and complex brains if it was not to make difficult decisions about living intelligently.

Those that claim abortion is a sin against God need to explain why it is intelligent behavior to destroy this gift of God by bringing into an environment that the woman and her family have said is not stable or secure, where it is not wanted and they cannot support or love this child causing the child to live in misery and pain.

Have I ever claimed that Abortion is a sin against God?

Claiming to know the mind and the will of God seems impertinent.

As a supporter of the availability of abortion on demand, I support abortion on demand.

My thing is that this is very important decision and needs to be recognized as such before it is made understanding all of the factors and weighing each with the solemnity they are due.

Why do you think that DNA science is a strange concept?

 

[minnie616]

I'm not finding that direction in the passage you cite in the highlight.

Here is that passage:

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 21:22-24 - New International Version

“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand...

www.biblegateway.com

<snip>

Exodus 21:22-24​

​

New International Version​

​

​

"22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,"
<snip>
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+21&version=NIV

You are reading a revised version which was made up in the 1980s.

Borrowed from an article I read about 10 years ago :

Why does it matter that what evangelical leaders say is “the biblical view on abortion” was not a widespread interpretation until about [ the 1980s which is 40 some ] years ago? For one thing, it’s harder to argue the Bible clearly teaches something when the overwhelming majority of its past interpreters didn’t read the Bible that way. For another, it illustrates that evangelical leaders are happy to defend creative reinterpretations of the Bible when it fits with a socially conservative worldview — even while objecting to new interpretations of the Bible on, say, homosexuality, precisely because they are new. And for another, by looking at the history of how today’s “biblical view on abortion” arose, one can begin to see the worldview that made it possible. In the process, it becomes apparent it is that unacknowledged worldview, and not the Bible, that evangelical opponents of abortion are actually defending.

 

[weaver2]

Have I ever claimed that Abortion is a sin against God?

I thought we were speaking in generalities. In general the anti-abortion movement considers abortion a crime or a sin.

Claiming to know the mind and the will of God seems impertinent.

Yes, and I wish the anti-abortion advocates would stop lecturing about the will of God, condemning abortion and the women who abort as hateful to God.

As a supporter of the availability of abortion on demand, I support abortion on demand.

Good for you.

My thing is that this is very important decision and needs to be recognized as such before it is made understanding all of the factors and weighing each with the solemnity they are due.

Ah, there is the paternalism, the lack of respect for women and the belief that women, lacking in morality and intelligence require the direction and guidance of a religion dominated by a punitive male God.

What makes you think a women don't understand the time, the cost and mental anguish of an unwanted child? Why are you so convinced of the stupidity of women that you feel a need to instruct them ton the seriousness of abortion. Why do you just assume that women haven't already thought about all the factors and options.

The problem with abortion is not the ending of an unwanted pregnancy. The problem is you want to tell women how to run their lives.

Why do you think that DNA science is a strange concept?

DNA is not a strange concept. Re-read the post.