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Bush push for investment in Science education.

steen

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In the SotU address, Bush advocated improvement in science education. How does that fit with his claim earlier in the year that he felt "Intelligent Design" should be taught in school?
 

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Actions speak louder than words. When the administration actually does something that supports the sciences or education in any way, I might take what the president is saying seriously. Until then, this is just another unfufilled promise by the administration.
 

steen

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Yes, it is astonishing how even in this, they lie.
 

tecoyah

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Guess the cuts in education funding...combined with the Hike in Student loan fees...might force some kids to get a better grasp on Mathematics, How else will they be able to afford an education?
As with everything said in that speech, there will lilely be nothing more than an attempt to make it seem as if Bush is serious. Nothing will be funded....unless it benefits Corporate America in some way.
 

tryreading

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steen said:
In the SotU address, Bush advocated improvement in science education. How does that fit with his claim earlier in the year that he felt "Intelligent Design" should be taught in school?
If he means what he said, then he has done a complete 180 degree turn. Because if he is serious, valuable class hours will not be wasted on a faith-based course that has nothing to do with science. If we are to become more competitive with other countries, surely the best education for today's students is vital, should be a primary concern. They deserve that, but instead face the shame of substandard education, and we as a country should be mortified when visiting students joke about how far behind them in knowledge our students are at comparable grade levels.

If President Bush is serious about high quality education in this country, then he has decided to drop the distraction of ID, which would not make us more competitive in any way with any country anywhere, but would certainly waste very valuable class time and school funds.
 

steen

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tryreading said:
If he means what he said, then he has done a complete 180 degree turn.
Hmm, according to republicans, that would make him a flip-flopper and therefore not suitable as president. Just as he flip-flopped on Rove and exposing secret agents.
 

tryreading

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steen said:
Hmm, according to republicans, that would make him a flip-flopper and therefore not suitable as president. Just as he flip-flopped on Rove and exposing secret agents.
Hopefully this will be a flip-flop in the right direction, for a change.
 

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tryreading said:
Because if he is serious, valuable class hours will not be wasted on a faith-based course that has nothing to do with science. If we are to become more competitive with other countries, surely the best education for today's students is vital, should be a primary concern.
This country used to be well ahead of all competition when students prayed in schools.
When darwin took over, God washed his hands and it seems He is turning human evolution backwards in schools, just for laugh.
I hardly can expect anything good to come out of Bush's ''pushes''.
28Th place in math leads to 28th place in world economy. We are too much behind. It has to take a village in order to pull out of the hole.
 

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justone said:
This country used to be well ahead of all competition when students prayed in schools.
When darwin took over, God washed his hands and it seems He is turning human evolution backwards in schools, just for laugh.
I hardly can expect anything good to come out of Bush's ''pushes''.
28Th place in math leads to 28th place in world economy. We are too much behind. It has to take a village in order to pull out of the hole.
You spout off unsubstantiated nonsense. Do you honestly think that mandatory Christian prayer will increase students' mathematical and reading ability?
 

tryreading

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justone said:
This country used to be well ahead of all competition when students prayed in schools.
When darwin took over, God washed his hands and it seems He is turning human evolution backwards in schools, just for laugh.
I hardly can expect anything good to come out of Bush's ''pushes''.
28Th place in math leads to 28th place in world economy. We are too much behind. It has to take a village in order to pull out of the hole.
There were a lot of other changes that affected the public school system since prayer in school was outlawed, I believe in 1963. There is a lot less parental guidance because most households are two-earner situations, which I think is the biggest factor.
 

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tryreading said:
There were a lot of other changes that affected the public school system since prayer in school was outlawed, I believe in 1963. There is a lot less parental guidance because most households are two-earner situations, which I think is the biggest factor.
Probably the largest contributing factor to the increase in education was the attention paid to education reform that resulted from the Sputnik scare. In fact, it was the introduction of teaching Evolution in a standardized curriculum that began as a result of a fear of the Russians gaining an educational (and subsequent technological) edge over America.
 

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The current "Far Right" view is that you can make it in America if you work hard even though you were born to an unwed mother in a slum. So, if you have a problem just find Jesus and look for a faith based charity. We'd rather invest in prisons than put a third of that cost into state of the art vocational training programs in high schools and provide every graduate with marketable skill and a job. Do kids come out of high school trained for a modern job? Not all kids are college bound. Many should be learning a up to date technical trade their last two years of high school. We'd rather spend the money on cleaning up the mess they will make when they can't compete for jobs in our society! Our Puritan religious ethic requires that we punish not rehabilitate criminals. We're more humane when our pets misbehave than our citizens do! So our prisons take criminals and make them even more dangerous to our society when they are released. A good education is cheaper than prison! :doh
 
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In the SotU address, Bush advocated improvement in science education. How does that fit with his claim earlier in the year that he felt "Intelligent Design" should be taught in school?
Easy. He doesn't even realize his own contradictions and illogical nature. He said it to appeal to the people because that's what they want to hear, without any true understanding of the issue or conviction on his part. Hell, I suspect someone along the way has convinced him he can support both somehow. Frankly, the guy just isn't very smart in my opinion, and I don't think he even realizes the hypocricy inherent in his statement.
 

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I suspect it is just talk anyway. A good education has always been available for those of us willing to take it. Some will say that our kids are not "given" a good education, but knowledge is not something that can be given, it has to be taken by willing recipients in the classroom who come to school with a pro-education attitude.
Teachers can only do so much within the constraints that currently exist in our public schools, but no matter how bad it gets, there will always be some kids who want to learn, and some who just don't care about learning. Parents are the big issue when it comes to the attitudes of the kids.
 

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The reason American is falling behind is a lack of work ethic and no desire. It is mostly that. There are a few other reasons, but for the most part if you work hard in a school system, you can make it to college and get a scholarship or two.
 

tryreading

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Engimo said:
Probably the largest contributing factor to the increase in education was the attention paid to education reform that resulted from the Sputnik scare. In fact, it was the introduction of teaching Evolution in a standardized curriculum that began as a result of a fear of the Russians gaining an educational (and subsequent technological) edge over America.
And it seems that the knowledge that certain countries, at least one of them third world, which educate their children to standards much higher than ours, would be a good reason to upgrade our school system. I am embarrassed by our very average schools, but what's really important is to improve them now. I don't have any kids, but I sure hate to see other people's children short-changed in what should be the best educational system in the world.
 

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tryreading said:
And it seems that the knowledge that certain countries, at least one of them third world, which educate their children to standards much higher than ours, would be a good reason to upgrade our school system. I am embarrassed by our very average schools, but what's really important is to improve them now. I don't have any kids, but I sure hate to see other people's children short-changed in what should be the best educational system in the world.
Perhaps the growing threat of Japanese and Chinese students that are doing much better than American students will spur us into another round of educational support and reform.
 

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Engimo said:
Perhaps the growing threat of Japanese and Chinese students that are doing much better than American students will spur us into another round of educational support and reform.
Maybe it will get us to look at how much the average American values an education! Remember those Japanese and Chinese students are doing better in our failing American schools! How can that be?


Gee, maybe the excuse our schools are the big problem is :spin:
 

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Mr. D said:
Maybe it will get us to look at how much the average American values an education! Remember those Japanese and Chinese students are doing better in our failing American schools! How can that be?

Gee, maybe the excuse our schools are the big problem is
Maybe the problem is how the parents were educated, per the large number of US parents who look towards creationism and other right-wing fundie lies.
 

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I wish people would stop being so closed-minded. Would 10 seconds of mentioning that there are alternative possibilities of the beginning(s) of life, the universe, and everything really corrupt the brains of American children?

Science is defined as “The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena” (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language). Basically, science is explanation with backing. For some people, religion is explanation with backing (observable, identifiable, describable, explainable). For others, Darwin (by the way, his theory is of adaptability, not the evolution theory we think of today) is explanation with backing. Transitive property? Science equals explanation equals religion, which can-or-cannot-equal Darwinism. For some people, evolution isn’t fact. For others, God isn’t fact. I’m willing to bet that neither can be definitely proved in the classroom.

What IF God created everything in 6 days? Wouldn’t that make Creationism science? We shouldn’t be closed-minded. Now, I’m not saying that we should try to prove intelligent design or try to teach intelligent design in the classroom. I’m just saying that we shouldn’t say that intelligent design should stay as far away from the science classroom as possible, because, quite honestly, we have too many different, conflicting and not-so-conflicting theories about our origins to be able to say that one is the truth. We, in general, know very little about our origins. Closing off any explanation from the classroom altogether is too risky—the Einstein of biological origins may be brainwashed to believe a certain way is fact. Without being presented with all possibilities and then being more able to prove and disprove different theories, this Einstein may not be able to reach the truth, whether through process of elimination or reevaluation of a generally-discarded-scorned-upon-theory.
 

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On another hand, does anyone see anything wrong with Bush supporting education in math and science? That's the only technical way of comparing educational levels with other nations...so what? Bush said earlier in his State of the Union speech that America had the most prosperous economy. Why? America has educated people in business, government, universities, and other forms of administration that requires learning the social sciences and communications. Why are our universities ranked top in the world? Why do the brightest foreign students oftentimes dream of Harvard and MIT? Because the American educational system provides more than mathematics and sciences. Ideally, it opens minds to embrace all academia, to look at all sides of "everything's beginnings" debates, and opens its doors to accept all cultures.
 
F

FallingPianos

Christine said:
I wish people would stop being so closed-minded. Would 10 seconds of mentioning that there are alternative possibilities of the beginning(s) of life, the universe, and everything really corrupt the brains of American children?

Science is defined as “The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena” (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language). Basically, science is explanation with backing. For some people, religion is explanation with backing (observable, identifiable, describable, explainable). For others, Darwin (by the way, his theory is of adaptability, not the evolution theory we think of today) is explanation with backing. Transitive property? Science equals explanation equals religion, which can-or-cannot-equal Darwinism. For some people, evolution isn’t fact. For others, God isn’t fact. I’m willing to bet that neither can be definitely proved in the classroom.

What IF God created everything in 6 days? Wouldn’t that make Creationism science? We shouldn’t be closed-minded. Now, I’m not saying that we should try to prove intelligent design or try to teach intelligent design in the classroom. I’m just saying that we shouldn’t say that intelligent design should stay as far away from the science classroom as possible, because, quite honestly, we have too many different, conflicting and not-so-conflicting theories about our origins to be able to say that one is the truth. We, in general, know very little about our origins. Closing off any explanation from the classroom altogether is too risky—the Einstein of biological origins may be brainwashed to believe a certain way is fact. Without being presented with all possibilities and then being more able to prove and disprove different theories, this Einstein may not be able to reach the truth, whether through process of elimination or reevaluation of a generally-discarded-scorned-upon-theory.

your understanding of science is mistaken. science is two things. its a system of gathering knowledge based on the scientific method, and its the body of knowledge that has been collected via that method.
 

steen

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Christine said:
I wish people would stop being so closed-minded. Would 10 seconds of mentioning that there are alternative possibilities of the beginning(s) of life, the universe, and everything really corrupt the brains of American children?
There is no actual evidence for the beginning of life. The beginning of the universe is not known, but we do know what happened soon after. In Science class, what we talk about is science, not fantasies and "just because I want to believe it is so" faiths.

Science is defined as “The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena” (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language). Basically, science is explanation with backing.
No, It is investigation of phenomena through the application of THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD. Perhaps you have heard about it?

For some people, religion is explanation with backing (observable, identifiable, describable, explainable).
But the explanation is "because I believe this." So it has absolutely nothing to do with actual evidence.

For others, Darwin
Are you trying to imply that one excludes the other? You better be able to prove that weird speculation. Certainly, Christians accept the science of the Scientific Theory of Evolution. Your claims seem bogus, so can you please clarify?

(by the way, his theory is of adaptability, not the evolution theory we think of today)
Huh? You say that the older Hypothesis is more valid than the Scientific Theory that has been developed from research? I REALLY hope this is not what you are saying, as that shows serious ignorance of what science is.

is explanation with backing.
"Backing"? It seems that you are equating Scientific Evidence with Faith in its verifiability? Again, that seems, on the surface, as an ignorant remark, so can you clarify?

Transitive property?
What do you mean?

Science equals explanation equals religion,
False.

which can-or-cannot-equal Darwinism.
And as such, it is a meaningless remark.

For some people, evolution isn’t fact. For others, God isn’t fact. I’m willing to bet that neither can be definitely proved in the classroom.
Evolution already HAS been definitively proved in and outside of the classroom. That the processes of Evolution occurs has been documented as a fact. Every time a research paper is published, it demonstrates specific, proved examples of Evolution. Your claim is false.

What IF God created everything in 6 days? Wouldn’t that make Creationism science?
Nope. Science is the exploration of observable and measurable phenomena through the application of the Scientific Method.

You really don't know much about science, do you? You seem rather clueless about what you are trying to criticize here. That is rather insulting to the rest of us who took the bother to actually learn and understand what we are posting about. You owe us the respect of at least know what science is before bashing it.

We shouldn’t be closed-minded.
Hint, hint!

Now, I’m not saying that we should try to prove intelligent design or try to teach intelligent design in the classroom. I’m just saying that we shouldn’t say that intelligent design should stay as far away from the science classroom as possible, because, quite honestly, we have too many different, conflicting and not-so-conflicting theories about our origins to be able to say that one is the truth.
Oh, the ignorance. This is beginning to be uneducated claptrap. If you want something in the science classroom, then it has to be science :doh.

So unless you are evidencing ID or whatever faith you are talking about through the Scientific Method, then it is not science. And to claim that there are conflicting theories is the sure sign that you are clueless about the subject. A SCIENTIFIC THEORY is the END PRODUCT of the Scientific Method, it is not a mere speculation. Creationists/fundies ALWAYS betray their extreme ignorance by making that remark, the "it is only a theory" nonsense.

We, in general, know very little about our origins.
But we DO know what scientific research has provided evidence off.

Closing off any explanation from the classroom altogether is too risky—the Einstein of biological origins may be brainwashed to believe a certain way is fact.
And heavens know that scientists are to STUPID to research the evidence, right? Once again, your appaling ignorance of the Scientific Method shows that you have no clue what the hell you are talking about. Once again, that is incredibly insulting to the rest of us. You are at a point where you need to retract your post and apologize to us and then go learn something about what you are talking about.

Without being presented with all possibilities and then being more able to prove and disprove different theories,
You have NO clue what a Scientific Theory is, do you?

this Einstein may not be able to reach the truth, whether through process of elimination or reevaluation of a generally-discarded-scorned-upon-theory.
If something is discarded, it is because the evidence showed it to be wrong. Like the Earth being flat.

But hey, if you feel that your kids need to be presented with that as still being a possibility, then by all means go ahead and dumb them down. Then they can spend their life in jobs picking up roadkill, while our kids become physicians.
 

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Christine said:
On another hand, does anyone see anything wrong with Bush supporting education in math and science?
It is hypocricy. bush has spend many years gutting science, distorting science and making policies directly contradicting the scientific evidence. He has made claims that are scientifically incredibly ignorant, like you do, and now he claim to support science? He is either a hypocrite, a liar, or both.
 
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