Bush, Obama, and Trump were/are poor spenders...

[jonny5]

So much did Bush and the GOP actually reduce the debt by, because it seems like Bush often hid the cost of the war.

How the US public was defrauded by the hidden cost of the Iraq war | Michael Boyle | Opinion | The Guardian

It likes the GOP loves big government and massive pork and spending if its for war.

I get it. You just want to blame the GOP. Youre not interested in facts.

 

[Conservative]

I've given you the proof. the US constitution lays out how bills become law. Absent a veto proof majority, the president must sign or veto them. Trump signed every budget sent to him, and owns the debt and deficits that went with them. He was free to veto them and have continue to veto them until congress (which was controlled by republicans lol) reduces spending. But republicans don't care about deficits or debt, when they are in power. Which is why they increase it orders of magnitude more than democrats.

Yes we all know how bills become law, Congress passes the bills and the President signs them, what is your point? The President proposes a budget and the Congress approves or rejects it. Included in that budget are line items for SS and Medicare all outside the control of the President. You want the President to veto a budget because of line items in the Medicare and SS area? He has no control over those line items therefore why should he veto them?

You continue to ignore the part of the budget he does control discretionary spending and what funds that spending. You don't seem to have a clue in spite of the fact that I gave you the link to those line items and the taxes that fund them. Still waiting for you to explain how a 1.48 trillion dollar discretionary budget funded by FIT, CIT, Excise taxes that generated over 2 trillion dollars of revenue causes deficits? The problem with the deficits are totally interest expense and entitlement spending related. So why don't you tell us exactly what in that discretionary budget would you eliminate that would make a difference on the deficit?

Trump has only had two budgets prepared by him, the 2018, 2019 budget pre pandemic now the 2020 pandemic year budget. You believe he know about the pandemic costs and expenses when he submitted that budget in 2019? You are definitely a civics challenged liberal certainly not independent.

 

[Conservative]

The Pentagon never said that Russia isn't paying bounties on U.S. servicemen, what they said is they don't have fully corroborating evidence of it.

Be that as it may, you want to take Putin's side on the debate about Russia paying bounties, sure, go ahead. What is not in dispute at all, is that Russia arms Afghan militants in their fight against U.S. servicemen. That isn't in dispute by anyone. Russia 'arming the Afghan Taliban', says US - BBC News

Yet despite that, Trump boycotts the G7 in an effort to get Russia back in it. Trump pulls U.S. troops out of Germany. Trump rewards a country that is arming our enemies. When Trump is called out on that, what is his excuse? Well, he says that we did some things to Russia before. So ****ing what? Do you think any military family in this country gives a damn what we did to Russia in the past? I don't know about you, but I am on team America, evidently, Trump isn't.

Trump is a man that showered Kim Jong Un with praise and publically absolved him of his role in torturing to death U.S. citizens. That is not even in dispute, you can watch Trump on video doing it.

Trump is a man that sides with Putin against American intelligence. Trump is a man that has made fun of an American POW. Trump is a man that has gone after a Gold Star Family. Trump is a man that has insulted those that have served this country and fought for it. He is a despicable human being and you know he is because the one thing you never do is defend Trump's character.

I am not someone that votes one party. There has not been an election since I have been voting that I haven't voted for a Republican for some office at some level, but unlike some blind partisans out there, I love my country more than I do any party, politician, or ideology, and this November I am voting for a good person that actually cares about this country, it's people, and those that serve it.

So you believe the President of the United States is allowing Russia to place bounties on the heads of our troops?? What is your House doing about that? where are the formal charges not opinions or claims?

You are going to be surprised as over the past 11 years I have made this statement many times, I grew up a staunch JFK Democrat and have voted for more Democrats than you have probably voted Republican. A JFK Democrat understood the private sector, promoted tax cuts to stimulate it. That party no longer exists, it has become radicalized and doesn't even come close to the values I have that affect my family or me

If you are concerned about foreign policy why would you vote for Biden?

Joe Won't Stand Up For Us - YouTube

Here is your problem you are so focused on hatred of Trump you are ignoring the alternative. I have never liked Trump, will never like Trump but will vote for Trump because the alternative is a disaster and the results generated pre pandemic are exactly what I voted for. It is those results that warrant re-election. AS of today the Trump approval on the economy is still at 50% or higher and to me the economy and national security are the only two issues that matter in voting for a President

Poll: Trump approval on economy, jobs holds amid economic downturn | TheHill

your focus on social issues needs to be at your state and local level not at the President.

 

[rahl]

Yes we all know how bills become law, Congress passes the bills and the President signs them, what is your point?.

I can't dumb this down any further for you. Congress sends the president a budget bill, like any other bill. If trump agrees and wants it to be law, he signs it. If he doesn't he vetoes it. So, as I've repeatedly pointed out, trump increased spending, the deficit and debt each year he's been in office, because he chose to sign those budget bills rather than veto them and make congress reduce spending.

 

[Conservative]

I can't dumb this down any further for you. Congress sends the president a budget bill, like any other bill. If trump agrees and wants it to be law, he signs it. If he doesn't he vetoes it. So, as I've repeatedly pointed out, trump increased spending, the deficit and debt each year he's been in office, because he chose to sign those budget bills rather than veto them and make congress reduce spending.

No, the President sends Congress a budget bill, your civics is all screwed up and embarrassing. Vetoing a budget because of something he has no control over is stunningly ignorant but typical liberal anti Trump rhetoric

 

[rahl]

No, the President sends Congress a budget bill, your civics is all screwed up and embarrassing.

Oh this is embarrassing alright, lol. The president sends congress a budget proposal. Congress sends the president a budget BILL to either sign or veto. Presidents aren't capable of drafting legislation or bills. They can only sign a bill into law if passed by congress. Jesus Christ, stop talking about topics you are completely ignorant of.

Vetoing a budget because of something he has no control over is stunningly ignorant but typical liberal anti Trump rhetoric

He has total control, via his veto power. He can shut down the government until congress passes a budget that is deficit neutral. But trump, like every other republican, does not actually care about deficits or debt. which is why republicans outspend democrats and add to the debt orders of magnitude more than democrats.

 

[Yes_Minister]

I get it. You just want to blame the GOP. Youre not interested in facts.

So does the massive spending the Bush administration did with the Iraq War not count somehow? Why? How is fiscal conservativism not some huge lie if Bush can just spend 2 trillion dollars on a war that made things worse, not better? Why was this 2 trillion dollar price tag worth it?

 

[Yes_Minister]

Last time I checked, Bush and Obama were no longer in office but would be happy to post the Bush vs. Obama economic results if you would like particularly the GDP numbers where including the "worst recession since the Great Depression" destroyed Obama!

So Bush no longer being in power made the debt he created on the Iraq War just go away? No? Well then Bush and the GOP just abandoned fiscal conservativism when they got into power, which is what the GOP always does. When is the last time the GOP reduced the debt when they were in power?

 

[Glitch]

So does the massive spending the Bush administration did with the Iraq War not count somehow? Why? How is fiscal conservativism not some huge lie if Bush can just spend 2 trillion dollars on a war that made things worse, not better? Why was this 2 trillion dollar price tag worth it?

Still demonstrating your civic illiteracy I see. Unable to grasp that Congress spends, not Presidents. How truly pathetic. Is your lack of education as apparent in other areas as well? Or are you just completely ignorant about how government functions?

 

[Conservative]

Oh this is embarrassing alright, lol. The president sends congress a budget proposal. Congress sends the president a budget BILL to either sign or veto. Presidents aren't capable of drafting legislation or bills. They can only sign a bill into law if passed by congress. Jesus Christ, stop talking about topics you are completely ignorant of.

He has total control, via his veto power. He can shut down the government until congress passes a budget that is deficit neutral. But trump, like every other republican, does not actually care about deficits or debt. which is why republicans outspend democrats and add to the debt orders of magnitude more than democrats.

NO, the Congress approves or rejects the budget, there is nothing for the President to sign as he has already signed the budget he submitted to Congress. You want the President to veto the Budget because of entitlement spending?? that is your argument against Trump? Wow, you really are a voter?? Trump has zero control over entitlement spending as does Congress until they change the law, this is an entitlement created by Congress and has to be corrected by Congress. you cannot seem to grasp that reality

 

[Conservative]

So Bush no longer being in power made the debt he created on the Iraq War just go away? No? Well then Bush and the GOP just abandoned fiscal conservativism when they got into power, which is what the GOP always does. When is the last time the GOP reduced the debt when they were in power?

No, the Iraq debt was in the 10.6 trillion dollar debt Obama inherited, he left it at 19.9 trillion

 

[jonny5]

So does the massive spending the Bush administration did with the Iraq War not count somehow? Why? How is fiscal conservativism not some huge lie if Bush can just spend 2 trillion dollars on a war that made things worse, not better? Why was this 2 trillion dollar price tag worth it?

Again, youre not interested in facts, just posting the same old blame Bush talking points. You asked if the GOP ever cut the deficit, I showed where they did. Asked and answered. Moving on.

 

[rahl]

NO, the Congress approves or rejects the budget, there is nothing for the President to sign as he has already signed the budget he submitted to Congress.

ok you have to be trolling at this point. There is no way you can actually believe what you just said here, lol.

You want the President to veto the Budget because of entitlement spending?? that is your argument against Trump? Wow, you really are a voter?? Trump has zero control over entitlement spending as does Congress until they change the law, this is an entitlement created by Congress and has to be corrected by Congress. you cannot seem to grasp that reality

I want a republican who actually does something about debt/deficits like they pretend to care about. Trump could have vetoed any of the budget bills sent to him, and threatened to veto every other budget bill that comes to his desk, if spending is not decreased. But he didn't. He now owns the debt/deficits that went with them, and the HUGE spending increases.

 

[Conservative]

ok you have to be trolling at this point. There is no way you can actually believe what you just said here, lol.


I want a republican who actually does something about debt/deficits like they pretend to care about. Trump could have vetoed any of the budget bills sent to him, and threatened to veto every other budget bill that comes to his desk, if spending is not decreased. But he didn't. He now owns the debt/deficits that went with them, and the HUGE spending increases.

You won't have to worry about trolling then as you are incapable of debating thus I won't see your alias on my screen

 

[rahl]

You won't have to worry about trolling then as you are incapable of debating thus I won't see your alias on my screen

incapable of debating? I've been debating with you for quite a while in this thread. You claimed the presidents budget proposal he submits to congress is actually a bill. Either you are trolling, or you are woefully ignorant of the US constitution, separation of powers

 

[Conservative]

incapable of debating? I've been debating with you for quite a while in this thread. You claimed the presidents budget proposal he submits to congress is actually a bill. Either you are trolling, or you are woefully ignorant of the US constitution, separation of powers

Are you reading challenged, where did I say a budget proposal was a bill? A budget is a proposal sent by the President to Congress for approval. In that budget are line items, discretionary, mandatory, and debt service. The Mandatory is entitlements for SS and Medicare mostly and no one really knows that that is going to be thus there is nothing to veto. SS expenditures depend on when people take the money so you tell me why anyone would veto a bill based upon entitlement spending?

 

[Yes_Minister]

Still demonstrating your civic illiteracy I see. Unable to grasp that Congress spends, not Presidents. How truly pathetic. Is your lack of education as apparent in other areas as well? Or are you just completely ignorant about how government functions?

The GOP controlled Congress and the Presidency from 2002 to 2006, so why didn't they reduce spending then? They had 4 years!

 

[Yes_Minister]

Again, youre not interested in facts, just posting the same old blame Bush talking points. You asked if the GOP ever cut the deficit, I showed where they did. Asked and answered. Moving on.

Except you are wrong, Bush increased the deficit:

U.S. Presidents and the Largest Budget Deficits

I guess big deficits are okay with you if they are for big war and big military.

 

[Yes_Minister]

No, the Iraq debt was in the 10.6 trillion dollar debt Obama inherited, he left it at 19.9 trillion

Why are you constantly pivoting to Obama, is that deflection so you do not have answer why Republicans never actually reduce the debt when in power?

 

[rahl]

Are you reading challenged, where did I say a budget proposal was a bill?

right here.......................

NO, the Congress approves or rejects the budget, there is nothing for the President to sign as he has already signed the budget he submitted to Congress.

A budget is a proposal sent by the President to Congress for approval. In that budget are line items, discretionary, mandatory, and debt service. The Mandatory is entitlements for SS and Medicare mostly and no one really knows that that is going to be thus there is nothing to veto. SS expenditures depend on when people take the money so you tell me why anyone would veto a bill based upon entitlement spending?

strawman. I said he should have vetoed any budget that increased spending or wasn't deficit neutral. But trump, like every other republican, doesn't care at all about deficits or debt. Which is why they raise both orders of magnitude more than democrats.

 

[jonny5]

Except you are wrong, Bush increased the deficit:

U.S. Presidents and the Largest Budget Deficits

I guess big deficits are okay with you if they are for big war and big military.

BUSH didnt increase the deficit, congress AND Bush did. But it wasnt just because of big war, it was, as always, big social spending which increased even more than defense spending from 2001 to 2004.
Mandatory spending increased from 1000 billion to 1200 billion during that time. Defense spending rose from 300 billion to 450 billion.

And then they decreased the deficit from 2004 to 2007.

Budget and Economic Data | Congressional Budget Office

 

[Conservative]

Why are you constantly pivoting to Obama, is that deflection so you do not have answer why Republicans never actually reduce the debt when in power?

I gave you the reason for the debt and you refused to address it, ENTITLEMENT SPENDING AND DEBT SERVICE!! Not discretionary spending!! You apparently didn't give a damn about the debt when Obama added 9.3 trillion to it so why the concern now when we are in a pandemic and the stimulus was bipartisan and temporary?

 

[Conservative]

right here.......................


strawman. I said he should have vetoed any budget that increased spending or wasn't deficit neutral. But trump, like every other republican, doesn't care at all about deficits or debt. Which is why they raise both orders of magnitude more than democrats.

So you are calling for the President to veto a budget that has mandatory spending increases in it for some unknown about? You aren't very good at this because you don't understand what creates the deficits no matter how many links I give you or posts I make. Some people just cannot grasp reality

One more time, TRUMP'S 1.48 trillion dollar 2020 budget funded by FIT, CIT, and Excise Tax revenue of over 2 trillion dollars didn't create the deficits. Borrowing from SS and Medicare in the past left a shortfall that has created the current deficit along with 7 interest rate hikes during Trump's term. Seems facts just don't resonate with you so keep living in that liberal bubble!

 

[Yes_Minister]

BUSH didnt increase the deficit, congress AND Bush did. But it wasnt just because of big war, it was, as always, big social spending which increased even more than defense spending from 2001 to 2004.
Mandatory spending increased from 1000 billion to 1200 billion during that time. Defense spending rose from 300 billion to 450 billion.

And then they decreased the deficit from 2004 to 2007.

Budget and Economic Data | Congressional Budget Office

Oh and Bush's tax cuts did not add to the debt?

The Legacy of the 2001 and 2003 “Bush” Tax Cuts | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

 

[Yes_Minister]

I gave you the reason for the debt and you refused to address it, ENTITLEMENT SPENDING AND DEBT SERVICE!! Not discretionary spending!! You apparently didn't give a damn about the debt when Obama added 9.3 trillion to it so why the concern now when we are in a pandemic and the stimulus was bipartisan and temporary?

So discretionary spending not count towards the debt? If it does, what is your point? Bush spent 2 trillion dollars in Iraq, how is that fiscal conservativism?