Bush, Obama, and Trump were/are poor spenders...

[rahl]

So you are calling for the President to veto a budget that has mandatory spending increases in it for some unknown about?

I'm calling for a republican president, ANY republican president, to actually stand for what they campaign on. No deficits, less spending etc. Yes, trump should have vetoed every budget that came to his desk until spending was decreased and the deficit eliminated.

You aren't very good at this because you don't understand what creates the deficits no matter how many links I give you or posts I make. Some people just cannot grasp reality

uh, deficits are created by spending more than you take in.

One more time, TRUMP'S 1.48 trillion dollar 2020 budget funded by FIT, CIT, and Excise Tax revenue of over 2 trillion dollars didn't create the deficits. Borrowing from SS and Medicare in the past left a shortfall that has created the current deficit along with 7 interest rate hikes during Trump's term. Seems facts just don't resonate with you so keep living in that liberal bubble!

it doesn't matter how many times you insist on being wrong. The facts remain the same. Trump could have vetoed every budget that came to his desk, until congress reduced spending. But, republicans do not care at all about deficits, debt or increased spending. It's why they increase all of the above orders of magnitude more than democrats.

 

[jimbo]

What bull ****. Bush and trump were big time spenders. Only obama and clinton lowered spending.

Obama increased the national debt by nearly 9 trillion.

In fairness to any President, a large part of the spending is outside their ability to control. Debt interest and entitlements fall in this category. Add to that that the President doesn't actually control spending (That would be the House), and Presidents carry a small part of the blame for spending or debt.

 

[Conservative]

So discretionary spending not count towards the debt? If it does, what is your point? Bush spent 2 trillion dollars in Iraq, how is that fiscal conservativism?

Of course it does as there are three parts to the deficit thus debt, discretionary, mandatory, and debt service. Waiting for you to explain how 1.48 trillion in discretionary spending funded by 2 trillion dollars in revenue causes deficits? Yes, the off budget items are still part of the 10.6 trillion debt Bush handed Obama along with the status of forces agreement that ended the Iraq War. Does that justify Obama adding 9.3 trillion to the debt? Why is it you and others just cannot admit when wrong?

 

[Conservative]

I'm calling for a republican president, ANY republican president, to actually stand for what they campaign on. No deficits, less spending etc. Yes, trump should have vetoed every budget that came to his desk until spending was decreased and the deficit eliminated.


uh, deficits are created by spending more than you take in.

it doesn't matter how many times you insist on being wrong. The facts remain the same. Trump could have vetoed every budget that came to his desk, until congress reduced spending. But, republicans do not care at all about deficits, debt or increased spending. It's why they increase all of the above orders of magnitude more than democrats.

You can campaign on fiscal responsibility but you cannot veto a budget that has mandatory gov't spending in it, you seem to be unable to grasp that reality. do you know what MANDATORY means?

Trump has had 3 budgets and we are in the middle of his third and it is pandemic loaded which of course is bipartisan HOWEVER it is less than the Democrats wanted. Facts seem to get in the way of your biased partisan point of view

 

[Conservative]

Obama increased the national debt by nearly 9 trillion.

In fairness to any President, a large part of the spending is outside their ability to control. Debt interest and entitlements fall in this category. Add to that that the President doesn't actually control spending (That would be the House), and Presidents carry a small part of the blame for spending or debt.

Here is the problem with the Obama deficit that the left doesn't want to acknowledge, in 2008 we had 146 million taxpayers, at the end of 2009 there were 138 million Taxpayers just a decline of 8 million which impacted revenue, In 2010 there were 139 million taxpayers, we didn't get back to 146 million until 2014. Can anyone on the left tell us how many years Obama had trillion dollar deficits? Can anyone on the left tell us what the 842 billion dollar stimulus did to the deficit since it didn't create the taxpayers? Obama's problem was loss of revenue and increased gov't spending of 842 billion stimulus for shovel ready jobs

 

[jonny5]

Oh and Bush's tax cuts did not add to the debt?

The Legacy of the 2001 and 2003 “Bush” Tax Cuts | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

Of course not. Tax cuts are not spending. While revenue did decrease a little after the 2001 recession and tax cuts, it increased from 1800 to 2600 billion by 2007. So they could have spent an additional 800 billion a year by 2007 and had no change in the deficit. But instead spending increased by over a trillion. Theres your debt.

 

[jonny5]

Obama increased the national debt by nearly 9 trillion.

In fairness to any President, a large part of the spending is outside their ability to control. Debt interest and entitlements fall in this category. Add to that that the President doesn't actually control spending (That would be the House), and Presidents carry a small part of the blame for spending or debt.

Again, OBAMA didnt increase the debt. Congress and Obama did, primarily through mandatory spending, but also stimulus spending, obamacare and bailouts. TARP alone, which was passed by Dem congress and Bush, and mostly implemented under Obama, alone accts for something like 4 trillion.

 

[jimbo]

Again, OBAMA didnt increase the debt. Congress and Obama did, primarily through mandatory spending, but also stimulus spending, obamacare and bailouts. TARP alone, which was passed by Dem congress and Bush, and mostly implemented under Obama, alone accts for something like 4 trillion.

I should have said during Obama's presidency, the debt increased by 9 trillion.

I hope I made the point that there is little that any President can do to control spending.

Interest amounts to 600 billion. Social Security about 12% of the GNP. Both are increasing yearly.

 

[rahl]

You can campaign on fiscal responsibility but you cannot veto a budget that has mandatory gov't spending in it, you seem to be unable to grasp that reality.

uh, you quite demonstrably can veto a budget with mandatory spending in it.

do you know what MANDATORY means?

Do you know how a bill becomes a law? (a budget is a bill like any other)

Trump has had 3 budgets and we are in the middle of his third and it is pandemic loaded which of course is bipartisan HOWEVER it is less than the Democrats wanted. Facts seem to get in the way of your biased partisan point of view

again, the facts are perfectly clear. We have decades of data showing republicans outspend democrats, increase the debt and deficit more than democrats, and tend to leave office during a recession.

 

[mike2810]

All three of these guys have brought the national debt to drastic highs. We really need to make some cuts and reduce and hopefully (obviously a very long time from now) pay back the national debt. But realistically, that will never happen. I did like during the first few months of the Trump presidency that he reduced the debt, but that has since passed.

The President signs the spending Bills passed by Congress. If the President does not like the Bill his only recourse is to Veto the bill.

If you want to blame someone for the national debt you have to include Congress.

 

[Conservative]

uh, you quite demonstrably can veto a budget with mandatory spending in it.


Do you know how a bill becomes a law? (a budget is a bill like any other)

again, the facts are perfectly clear. We have decades of data showing republicans outspend democrats, increase the debt and deficit more than democrats, and tend to leave office during a recession.

He sure can, why would any President veto a bill because of a MANDATORY SPENDING LINE ITEM?

Where in the hell do you get your information, Republicans outspending Democrats??

Reagan debt 1.7 trillion dollars in 8 years
GH Bush debt 1.4 trillion in 4 years
GW Bush debt 4.9 trillion in 8 years

Total 8.0 trillion in 20 years

Obama 9.3 trillion in 8 years

Are you mature enough to admit when wrong

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 2000 - 2019

 

[rahl]

He sure can, why would any President veto a bill because of a MANDATORY SPENDING LINE ITEM?

to decrease spending and eliminate the deficit.

Where in the hell do you get your information, Republicans outspending Democrats??

reality.............US Debt by President: By Dollar and Percentage
Trump is at pace to outspend the last 5 presidents and add more to the debt than they did.

Reagan debt 1.7 trillion dollars in 8 years
GH Bush debt 1.4 trillion in 4 years
GW Bush debt 4.9 trillion in 8 years

Total 8.0 trillion in 20 years

Obama 9.3 trillion in 8 years

Are you mature enough to admit when wrong

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 2000 - 2019

refuted above

 

[Conservative]

to decrease spending and eliminate the deficit.


reality.............US Debt by President: By Dollar and Percentage
Trump is at pace to outspend the last 5 presidents and add more to the debt than they did.

refuted above

There you go again, Trump is on pace, keep ignoring the pandemic and the stimulus from that pandemic, why is that? On one hand the left claims they want the virus to stop spreading requiring an economic shutdown which is going to generate negative economic results including debt as a stimulus bill was passed to help people through this pandemic. Did you have a better plan? The Democrats didn't they offered one of a trillion dollars more

You haven't refuted anything, I gave you the official data for Reagan, the Bush's and you as usual put your liberal spin on it, Trump's term isn't even up and projected deficits aren't factual and do have context which you want to ignore

 

[rahl]

There you go again, Trump is on pace, keep ignoring the pandemic and the stimulus from that pandemic, why is that?

I've ignored nothing. Trump was on pace to outspend the past 5 presidents prior to the pandemic. He will go down in the record books after the pandemic regarding spending (no, I'm not blaming that spending on him. it's necessary)

On one hand the left claims they want the virus to stop spreading requiring an economic shutdown which is going to generate negative economic results including debt as a stimulus bill was passed to help people through this pandemic. Did you have a better plan? The Democrats didn't they offered one of a trillion dollars more

this has nothing to do with me or anything being discussed.

You haven't refuted anything, I gave you the official data for Reagan, the Bush's and you as usual put your liberal spin on it, Trump's term isn't even up and projected deficits aren't factual and do have context which you want to ignore

I literally just refuted this.

 

[Conservative]

I've ignored nothing. Trump was on pace to outspend the past 5 presidents prior to the pandemic. He will go down in the record books after the pandemic regarding spending (no, I'm not blaming that spending on him. it's necessary)


this has nothing to do with me or anything being discussed.

I literally just refuted this.

Do you know what return on investment is?? Better consider it, Trump's debt was all due to entitlement spending and debt service increases but the question is what did the taxpayers get for that debt

There seems to be a real disconnect when it comes to debt and the results generated from that debt thus showing that all debt isn't equal. What exactly did the American taxpayers get out of the Obama debt??

1. The worst recovery from a major recession in modern history
2. Employment not getting back to pre recession levels until 2014
3. Record numbers of part time for economic reason employment meaning part time jobs thus lower taxpaying jobs
4. 500 billion average annual GDP growth for 8 years(4.0 Trillion GDP growth)
5. 9.3% U-6 Unemployment rate
6. Bail out of the pubic sector and claimed saved jobs which didn't generate the promised new jobs thus new taxpayers from 842 billion dollar shovel ready jobs stimulus

What have we gotten for the Trump debt

1. Strong economic growth, 900 billion average GDP growth 2017-2018-2019(2.7 trillion growth)
2. Employment of 6.6 million jobs created in 3 years vs. 6 million jobs created prior to taking office the last 9 years
3. 6.9% U-6 vs. 9.3% that he inherited
4. 1.4 million fewer part time for economic reason employees than inherited
5. 6% African American unemployment vs. the 8% inherited
6. Record state and local tax revenue due to consumer spending as a result of the tax cuts
7. No massive Gov't stimulus program pre pandemic

 

[rahl]

Do you know what return on investment is?? Better consider it, Trump's debt was all due to entitlement spending and debt service increases but the question is what did the taxpayers get for that debt

no it wasn't.

There seems to be a real disconnect when it comes to debt and the results generated from that debt thus showing that all debt isn't equal. What exactly did the American taxpayers get out of the Obama debt??

a booming economy and longest sustained period of growth post ww2.

1. The worst recovery from a major recession in modern history
2. Employment not getting back to pre recession levels until 2014
3. Record numbers of part time for economic reason employment meaning part time jobs thus lower taxpaying jobs
4. 500 billion average annual GDP growth for 8 years(4.0 Trillion GDP growth)
5. 9.3% U-6 Unemployment rate
6. Bail out of the pubic sector and claimed saved jobs which didn't generate the promised new jobs thus new taxpayers from 842 billion dollar shovel ready jobs stimulus

none of this is correct.

What have we gotten for the Trump debt

1. Strong economic growth, 900 billion average GDP growth 2017-2018-2019(2.7 trillion growth)
2. Employment of 6.6 million jobs created in 3 years vs. 6 million jobs created prior to taking office the last 9 years
3. 6.9% U-6 vs. 9.3% that he inherited
4. 1.4 million fewer part time for economic reason employees than inherited
5. 6% African American unemployment vs. the 8% inherited
6. Record state and local tax revenue due to consumer spending as a result of the tax cuts
7. No massive Gov't stimulus program pre pandemic

neither is this. Every economic metric has remained on the same unchanging trend line since 2010. NOTHING changed under trump. There was no magic spike when he was elected, nor has his metrics changed.

 

[Conservative]

no it wasn't.


a booming economy and longest sustained period of growth post ww2.

none of this is correct.



neither is this. Every economic metric has remained on the same unchanging trend line since 2010. NOTHING changed under trump. There was no magic spike when he was elected, nor has his metrics changed.

Yep, just as I expected a liberal cult follower and a waste of time, we are done, what a waste of time dealing with a liberal who doesn't mind being dependent

 

[rahl]

Yep, just as I expected a liberal cult follower and a waste of time, we are done, what a waste of time dealing with a liberal who doesn't mind being dependent

every single point you've tried to make has been refuted by the actual data. I've given it to you. Dozens of others have as well. I know it sucks that reality is in direct opposition to your ideology, but it will not go away. You are objectively incorrect.

 

[99percenter]

Do you know what return on investment is?? Better consider it, Trump's debt was all due to entitlement spending and debt service increases but the question is what did the taxpayers get for that debt

Let's 30 million out of a job and 33% drop in gdp. Terrible results if you ask me.

 

[jonny5]

I should have said during Obama's presidency, the debt increased by 9 trillion.

I hope I made the point that there is little that any President can do to control spending.

Interest amounts to 600 billion. Social Security about 12% of the GNP. Both are increasing yearly.

Maybe little, but not nothing. Presidents could submit actual plans to reform things, they have the bully puplit, and they have the executive power which allows them a lot of flexibility within the approprations. Congress says heres a billion to buy missles, doesnt mean they have to spend a billion.

 

[Conservative]

every single point you've tried to make has been refuted by the actual data. I've given it to you. Dozens of others have as well. I know it sucks that reality is in direct opposition to your ideology, but it will not go away. You are objectively incorrect.

You are blinded by the liberal ideology, indoctrinated by the left and have zero credibility. all the points made are supported by bea.gov, bls.gov, treasury.gov and you have refuted nothing just showed your total ignorance of civics, economics, and the line items in the budget. You are loyal to a fraudulent ideology and there is nothing in your posts that are independent

You have posted no data to support your claims, just continue to spout opinions

 

[rahl]

You are blinded by the liberal ideology, indoctrinated by the left and have zero credibility. all the points made are supported by bea.gov, bls.gov, treasury.gov and you have refuted nothing just showed your total ignorance of civics, economics, and the line items in the budget. You are loyal to a fraudulent ideology and there is nothing in your posts that are independent

You have posted no data to support your claims, just continue to spout opinions

every single point you've tried to make has been refuted by the actual data. I've given it to you. Dozens of others have as well. I know it sucks that reality is in direct opposition to your ideology, but it will not go away. You are objectively incorrect.

 

[Conservative]

every single point you've tried to make has been refuted by the actual data. I've given it to you. Dozens of others have as well. I know it sucks that reality is in direct opposition to your ideology, but it will not go away. You are objectively incorrect.

Do you know what actual data really is? This is actual data, haven't seen anything like this from you. Lying and distorting information is what radicals always do, not independents

Table 1.1.5. Gross Domestic Product
[Billions of dollars]
Bureau of Economic Analysis
Last Revised on: April 29, 2020 - Next Release Date May 28, 2020

Line 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019
Line
1 Gross domestic product 14712.8 14448.9 14992.1 15542.6 16197 16784.9 17527.3 18224.8 18715 19519.4 20580.2 21427.7
2 Personal consumption expenditures 9976.3 9842.2 10185.8 10641.1 11006.8 11317.2 11822.8 12284.3 12748.5 13312.1 13998.7 14562.7

Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
Original Data Value

Series Id: LNS12000000
Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Seas) Employment Level
Labor force status: Employed
Type of data: Number in thousands
Age: 16 years and over
Years: 2008 to 2019

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2008 146378 146156 146086 146132 145908 145737 145532 145203 145076 144802 144100 143369
2009 142152 141640 140707 140656 140248 140009 139901 139492 138818 138432 138659 138013
2010 138438 138581 138751 139297 139241 139141 139179 139438 139396 139119 139044 139301
2011 139250 139394 139639 139586 139624 139384 139524 139942 140183 140368 140826 140902
2012 141584 141858 142036 141899 142206 142391 142292 142291 143044 143431 143333 143330
2013 143292 143362 143316 143635 143882 143999 144264 144326 144418 143537 144479 144778
2014 145150 145134 145648 145667 145825 146247 146399 146530 146778 147427 147404 147615 1.9
2015 148150 148053 148122 148491 148802 148765 148815 149175 148853 149270 149506 150164
2016 150622 150934 151146 150963 151074 151104 151450 151766 151877 151949 152150 152276
2017 152128 152417 152958 153150 152920 153176 153456 153591 154399 153847 153945 154065
2018 154482 155213 155160 155216 155539 155592 155964 155604 156069 156582 156803 156945
2019 156694 156949 156748 156645 156758 157005 157288 157878 158269 158510 158593 158803
2020 158700 158759 155772 133403 137242 142182

Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
Original Data Value

Series Id: LNS12032194
Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Seas) Employment Level - Part-Time for Economic Reasons, All Industries
Labor force status: Employed
Type of data: Number in thousands
Age: 16 years and over
Hours at work: 1 to 34 hours
Reasons work not as scheduled: Economic reasons
Worker status/schedules: At work part time
Years: 2008 to 2019
`
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2008 4846 4902 4904 5220 5286 5540 5930 5851 6148 6690 7311 8029
2009 8046 8796 9145 8908 9113 9024 8891 9029 8847 8979 9114 9098
2010 8530 8936 9233 9178 8845 8577 8500 8800 9246 8837 8873 8935
2011 8470 8464 8645 8652 8576 8427 8281 8788 9166 8657 8447 8171
2012 8305 8238 7775 7913 8101 8072 8082 7974 8671 8203 8166 7943
2013 8151 8178 7722 7964 7937 8103 8099 7816 7764 7936 7718 7827
2014 7296 7299 7435 7509 7254 7422 7402 7177 7020 7025 6898 6856
2015 6808 6671 6629 6608 6628 6383 6249 6423 6043 5811 6174 6084
2016 5941 5978 6066 6006 6467 5748 5926 5995 5918 5971 5738 5621
2017 5753 5603 5455 5279 5234 5266 5281 5237 5179 4912 4866 4986
2018 4982 5115 4969 4952 4920 4736 4588 4368 4656 4630 4781 4657
2019 5147 4310 4499 4654 4355 4347 3984 4381 4350 4438 4322 4148
2020 4182 4318 5765 10887 10633

 

[rahl]

Do you know what actual data really is? This is actual data, haven't seen anything like this from you. Lying and distorting information is what radicals always do, not independents

that you don't understand the data you are posting, and how it refutes your ****ing position, is both hilarious, and why you should not discuss topics you don't understand.

 

[99percenter]

Do you know what actual data really is? This is actual data, haven't seen anything like this from you. Lying and distorting information is what radicals always do, not independents

According to you chart less people are employed than when trump took office. why so much loyalty to failed gop economic policies?