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Build the wall with Mexican money or not at all!!

independentusa

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I hear the Trumpsters constantly tell us that Trump is trying to fulfill his promise to build the wall. That is not Trump's promise. His promise was o build and wall and that Mexico would pay of it. So Trump is trying to satisfy his base with a wall but doing it by having the US pay for it including a majority of people in his country that don't want a wall. We all want border security, but a majority of our citizens don't believe that a wall will do little to help keep us secure. So until Trump can fulfill all of his promise to build a wall with Mexican money, no damn wall.
 

Oborosen

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I hear the Trumpsters constantly tell us that Trump is trying to fulfill his promise to build the wall. That is not Trump's promise. His promise was o build and wall and that Mexico would pay of it. So Trump is trying to satisfy his base with a wall but doing it by having the US pay for it including a majority of people in his country that don't want a wall. We all want border security, but a majority of our citizens don't believe that a wall will do little to help keep us secure. So until Trump can fulfill all of his promise to build a wall with Mexican money, no damn wall.

So what was a postulation and a source for him to just tell some pretty scant jokes, is now at this level?

Also, walls are simple in what they do and this one will do it. It will stem the tide to a manageable flow that can be more easily handled. It was never meant to completely stop the flow entirely.

As for the cost, or the fact if we wanted a wall, or not. I could be seen to care for either. Seeing as not getting the wall was always a possibility and if we ever got it. It would turn out for the best either way, because with how Obamacare flopped and how we had to sit through all of the other policy predictions through 2016. I'd rather have to spend a few billion on the wall, then waste more than a few trillion on some sort of Medicare pipedream.

Mexico's money was a point of bluster and jokes though the election, proving a fun way to stoke the crowd. Though the reasoning behind it was more than sound itself. I still could care less if they helped to build the wall, or not.
 

RaleBulgarian

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I'd rather have to spend a few billion on the wall, ...
Put the money towards our ballooning national debt that Trump has helped to grow even more. The money would be better spent.
 

independentusa

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So what was a postulation and a source for him to just tell some pretty scant jokes, is now at this level?

Also, walls are simple in what they do and this one will do it. It will stem the tide to a manageable flow that can be more easily handled. It was never meant to completely stop the flow entirely.

As for the cost, or the fact if we wanted a wall, or not. I could be seen to care for either. Seeing as not getting the wall was always a possibility and if we ever got it. It would turn out for the best either way, because with how Obamacare flopped and how we had to sit through all of the other policy predictions through 2016. I'd rather have to spend a few billion on the wall, then waste more than a few trillion on some sort of Medicare pipedream.

Mexico's money was a point of bluster and jokes though the election, proving a fun way to stoke the crowd. Though the reasoning behind it was more than sound itself. I still could care less if they helped to build the wall, or not.

SO you choose to accept that part of his promise for a wall that most experts say will not help, but not the part of the same promise that Mexico will pay for it. Yes, only a true Trump cultist would believe as you do. Of course looking at your avatar, you might just be a Russian Troll.
 

Oborosen

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Put the money towards our ballooning national debt that Trump has helped to grow even more. The money would be better spent.

You mean the same debt that unchecked immigration helps inflate?
 

Oborosen

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SO you choose to accept that part of his promise for a wall that most experts say will not help, but not the part of the same promise that Mexico will pay for it. Yes, only a true Trump cultist would believe as you do. Of course looking at your avatar, you might just be a Russian Troll.

What experts say that a wall, will not do what it's intended to do and where were these experts when Obama and Clinton proposed their own forms of boarder protection?

If you all you have in defense is to call me a Russian troll, or a Trump cultist. Then I don't blame you for using what little ammunition you have. But it still reveals just how little substance your post possesses.
 

RaleBulgarian

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You do realize what the difference between debt and deficit is, right?
The national debt (shortfall in funds from the budget) adds to the national deficit (the accumulated debt from shortfalls and other expenditures/loans). Good enough for you?
 

Oborosen

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The national debt (shortfall in funds from the budget) adds to the national deficit (the accumulated debt from shortfalls and other expenditures/loans). Good enough for you?

You're probably the first person to actually try and answer that question, aside from calling me a strumper, or Nazi that is.

Good answer. Now I'd like to know why you chose to switch from debt to deficit in between two separate post?

Because in post #3 you said debt and then chose to use deficit in post #7, why?
 

independentusa

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What experts say that a wall, will not do what it's intended to do and where were these experts when Obama and Clinton proposed their own forms of boarder protection?

If you all you have in defense is to call me a Russian troll, or a Trump cultist. Then I don't blame you for using what little ammunition you have. But it still reveals just how little substance your post possesses.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/orde...d-border-wall-with-mexico-wouldnt-accomplish/
Here is just one article about what the wall won't do. I found others, but why waste my time with a Trump cultist who will not believe anything that involves facts. And as fr as keeping people out, well they will go over, under and through the wall. Easily done. Better to use modern method. Next you will asking for a moat outside the wall and we will have a castle type wall. Perfect for someone who believes in the same methods as used in medieval times.
 

independentusa

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What experts say that a wall, will not do what it's intended to do and where were these experts when Obama and Clinton proposed their own forms of boarder protection?

If you all you have in defense is to call me a Russian troll, or a Trump cultist. Then I don't blame you for using what little ammunition you have. But it still reveals just how little substance your post possesses.

Yes and have you seen pictures of the fences they built. We need real boarder security using modern methods. What happens if we build the wall, nothing will change. We will have spent 20-50 billion dollars on a wall and then still have to use the same security methods to insure the wall is keeping people out that we would use without the wall.
 

independentusa

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You're probably the first person to actually try and answer that question, aside from calling me a strumper, or Nazi that is.

Good answer. Now I'd like to know why you chose to switch from debt to deficit in between two separate post?

Because in post #3 you said debt and then chose to use deficit in post #7, why?

Actually he has it wrong. The national debt is the total we owe and the deficit is the yearly shortfall, not the other way around. Each years deficit adds to the total debt owed by our country.
 

Mason66

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I hear the Trumpsters constantly tell us that Trump is trying to fulfill his promise to build the wall. That is not Trump's promise. His promise was o build and wall and that Mexico would pay of it. So Trump is trying to satisfy his base with a wall but doing it by having the US pay for it including a majority of people in his country that don't want a wall. We all want border security, but a majority of our citizens don't believe that a wall will do little to help keep us secure. So until Trump can fulfill all of his promise to build a wall with Mexican money, no damn wall.

Why build it with Mexican money or not at all.

Please explain why you say this.
 

Mason66

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I hear the Trumpsters constantly tell us that Trump is trying to fulfill his promise to build the wall. That is not Trump's promise. His promise was o build and wall and that Mexico would pay of it. So Trump is trying to satisfy his base with a wall but doing it by having the US pay for it including a majority of people in his country that don't want a wall. We all want border security, but a majority of our citizens don't believe that a wall will do little to help keep us secure. So until Trump can fulfill all of his promise to build a wall with Mexican money, no damn wall.

I say if there was one person that couldn't keep their same doctor, they should scrap the whole Obamacare. Would you go for that?
 

Oborosen

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https://www.brookings.edu/blog/orde...d-border-wall-with-mexico-wouldnt-accomplish/
Here is just one article about what the wall won't do. I found others, but why waste my time with a Trump cultist who will not believe anything that involves facts. And as fr as keeping people out, well they will go over, under and through the wall. Easily done. Better to use modern method. Next you will asking for a moat outside the wall and we will have a castle type wall. Perfect for someone who believes in the same methods as used in medieval times.

Seeing as the wall was never meant o stop either of those and it's been discussed as such. You're pretty much stuck at firing what little blanks you can managed to find. But if all you can do is claim that I'm a Trump cultist, or some other derogatory fiction like that. Then I don't blame you for almost immediately showing just how little power you've got in this debate.

The wall was never meant to stop illegal immigration. Saying that it was, is a moronic thing to say on face value alone and it was never intended to stop either of the two other aspects mentioned in this article.

So do you actually have anything with substance, or are you going to just keep slinging mud?
 

Oborosen

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Yes and have you seen pictures of the fences they built. We need real boarder security using modern methods. What happens if we build the wall, nothing will change. We will have spent 20-50 billion dollars on a wall and then still have to use the same security methods to insure the wall is keeping people out that we would use without the wall.

A wall, even a fence, if that's what you want to call it. Are capable of doing what they're intended to do.

If we build the wall, something will change. The flow of illegal immigration, human trafficking and drug smuggling will be adversely affected. The wall was never meant to stop it dead and believing it was supposed to do so is a pretty idiotic premise to have in the first place. As any other country that has decided to harden their boarders like we are trying to do. Have still needed to post other types of man power and material there to help with maintaining security.
 

Oborosen

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Actually he has it wrong. The national debt is the total we owe and the deficit is the yearly shortfall, not the other way around. Each years deficit adds to the total debt owed by our country.

I said good answer, I didn't say he was correct. ;)

Well... there goes my surprise.
 

Nemiroff

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So what was a postulation and a source for him to just tell some pretty scant jokes, is now at this level?

Also, walls are simple in what they do and this one will do it. It will stem the tide to a manageable flow that can be more easily handled. It was never meant to completely stop the flow entirely.

As for the cost, or the fact if we wanted a wall, or not. I could be seen to care for either. Seeing as not getting the wall was always a possibility and if we ever got it. It would turn out for the best either way, because with how Obamacare flopped and how we had to sit through all of the other policy predictions through 2016. I'd rather have to spend a few billion on the wall, then waste more than a few trillion on some sort of Medicare pipedream.

Mexico's money was a point of bluster and jokes though the election, proving a fun way to stoke the crowd. Though the reasoning behind it was more than sound itself. I still could care less if they helped to build the wall, or not.
Walls are simple in what they do but you are mistaken in what they do. Walls were meant to stop large armies, not wayward stragglers.

One error is the confusion between refugees and migrants. Refugees are not illegal immigrants. They March up to the border, and declare themselves. Illegal immigrants sneak into the country, and a large caravan cannot sneak.

I believe we should monitor who comes into the country by making entry more accessible to poorer people of decent character. I'm not convinced that we have too many people especially with 1: a slowing birth rate, and 2: a retiring baby boomer generation which is gonna take a toll on employment as well as care. We will need more people. I believe the argument that immigrants threaten us economically is wrong. I'll take arguments about immigrant handouts, if they exist, but with that changed, we will still need more working people.
 

Nemiroff

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A wall, even a fence, if that's what you want to call it. Are capable of doing what they're intended to do.

If we build the wall, something will change. The flow of illegal immigration, human trafficking and drug smuggling will be adversely affected. The wall was never meant to stop it dead and believing it was supposed to do so is a pretty idiotic premise to have in the first place. As any other country that has decided to harden their boarders like we are trying to do. Have still needed to post other types of man power and material there to help with maintaining security.
What other nations decided to build a wall around their nation in the modern era?

Even ancient nations have, I believe 1 example.
 

Oborosen

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Walls are simple in what they do but you are mistaken in what they do. Walls were meant to stop large armies, not wayward stragglers.

One error is the confusion between refugees and migrants. Refugees are not illegal immigrants. They March up to the border, and declare themselves. Illegal immigrants sneak into the country, and a large caravan cannot sneak.

I believe we should monitor who comes into the country by making entry more accessible to poorer people of decent character. I'm not convinced that we have too many people especially with 1: a slowing birth rate, and 2: a retiring baby boomer generation which is gonna take a toll on employment as well as care. We will need more people. I believe the argument that immigrants threaten us economically is wrong. I'll take arguments about immigrant handouts, if they exist, but with that changed, we will still need more working people.

Refugees are that yes, but only when they declare themselves. Many of the ones we've seen so far, are people that try to cross illegally and then try to declare themselves for asylum in response. Which only serves to bog down and already taxed system, making it worse for those that decided to follow the rules in the first place.

I for one think that many of these people, especially the more able. Should stay in their countries and work to make things better there. As this 1 million a year statistic, has been debunked before in what we're actually doing to these countries and our own.

Immigrants don't threaten us economically, it's the illegal ones that do.
 

RaleBulgarian

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Now I'd like to know why you chose to switch from debt to deficit in between two separate post?
Because in post #3 you said debt and then chose to use deficit in post #7, why?
Brain fart.
 

Nemiroff

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Refugees are that yes, but only when they declare themselves. Many of the ones we've seen so far, are people that try to cross illegally and then try to declare themselves for asylum in response. Which only serves to bog down and already taxed system, making it worse for those that decided to follow the rules in the first place.

I for one think that many of these people, especially the more able. Should stay in their countries and work to make things better there. As this 1 million a year statistic, has been debunked before in what we're actually doing to these countries and our own.

Immigrants don't threaten us economically, it's the illegal ones that do.
So the caravan is cool so long as they properly file asylum? Or does the size of them disqualify their individual qualifications?

That argument about skilled migrants should stay in their country always makes me laugh. We have need of workers with the impending mass retirement, and all of a sudden the party that wants a bunch of people out claims to altruistically give them back.

Especially if they are able, we should attract and keep them! I don't see how more working people is a bad thing.
 

Oborosen

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What other nations decided to build a wall around their nation in the modern era?

Even ancient nations have, I believe 1 example.

Not around their nations, but protecting their boarders.

Germany, France, England and even Mexico has even made adjustments to their own boarder security in the last five years, or decade if memory serves.
 

Oborosen

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Brain fart.

Happens to all of us.
But onto the point of immigration affecting our debt. It's more than logical to speculate that the money we spend, not only on this boarder wall. But on the whole of dealing with immigration, both illegal and legal. Add to our yearly debt as much as any other form of government expenditure.

Is it incorrect to surmise as such?
 
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