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Brown relieved of his duties

Binary_Digit

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This may sound like leftist rhetoric, but maybe Bush should have appointed somebody qualified in the first place... Unless somebody can explain how judging Arabian horse competitions can yield practical experience in the art of coordinating large-scale emergency response efforts. But I do applaud Bush for getting rid of him. Now hopefully somebody qualified will be taking over.
 

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The radio station i'm listening to just broke in with this breaking news.

Brown was nominated by Bush.
He must have really screwed up with Katrina!
 

cnredd

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Binary_Digit said:
This may sound like leftist rhetoric, but maybe Bush should have appointed somebody qualified in the first place... Unless somebody can explain how judging Arabian horse competitions can yield practical experience in the art of coordinating large-scale emergency response efforts. But I do applaud Bush for getting rid of him. Now hopefully somebody qualified will be taking over.
Prior to joining FEMA, Mr. Brown practiced law in Colorado and Oklahoma, where he served as a bar examiner on ethics and professional responsibility for the Oklahoma Supreme Court and as a hearing examiner for the Colorado Supreme Court. He had been appointed as a special prosecutor in police disciplinary matters. While attending law school he was appointed by the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee of the Oklahoma Legislature as the Finance Committee Staff Director, where he oversaw state fiscal issues. His background in state and local government also includes serving as an assistant city manager with emergency services oversight and as a city councilman.

Mr. Brown was also an adjunct professor of law for the Oklahoma City University.

A native of Oklahoma, Mr. Brown holds a bachelor's degree in Public Administration/Political Science from Central State University, Oklahoma. He received his J.D. from Oklahoma City University’s School of Law.


http://www.fema.gov/about/bios/brown.shtm

This is, in no way, a defense of him...He should be fired...

In fact, he should be re-hired just so Bush can fire him AGAIN....

But the "Arabian horse" stuff thrown out is childish...so "yes; it IS leftist rhetoric"....another unnecesary cheap shot...it's becoming "expected"...
 

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BTW: Brown is NOT fired just being taken away from the Katrina recovery group. Hes been sent back to run FEMA nationally.
Seems no matter how BAD Bushs gang screws up they just don't get fired!
Bush will NEVER admit he made a mistake or better still he will never admit he screwed up!
 

Binary_Digit

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Cnredd, thanks for the link. So he was an assistant city manager overseeing emergency services in Oklahoma, and he served on the president's policy coordination group that responded to the 9/11 attacks, before being appointed as the "Under Secretary". It sounds like he had some experience with emergency response, but this was his first job as the leader of an emergency response team. And according to the rest of that link, he's done a fantastic job leading Homeland Security with the other 164 presidentially declared disasters and emergencies. In fact, he has direct experience with hurricanes:

"In 2004, Mr. Brown led FEMA’s thousands of dedicated disaster workers during the most active hurricane season in over 100 years, as FEMA delivered aid more quickly and more efficiently than ever before."

So I wonder how he fouled this one up so bad?

Anyway, I would like to retract what I said previously about Brown being unqualified to lead FEMA. I think it's still debatable, but at least he did have some relavent experience.
 

cnredd

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Binary_Digit said:
Cnredd, thanks for the link. So he was an assistant city manager overseeing emergency services in Oklahoma, and he served on the president's policy coordination group that responded to the 9/11 attacks, before being appointed as the "Under Secretary". It sounds like he had some experience with emergency response, but this was his first job as the leader of an emergency response team. And according to the rest of that link, he's done a fantastic job leading Homeland Security with the other 164 presidentially declared disasters and emergencies. In fact, he has direct experience with hurricanes:

"In 2004, Mr. Brown led FEMA’s thousands of dedicated disaster workers during the most active hurricane season in over 100 years, as FEMA delivered aid more quickly and more efficiently than ever before."

So I wonder how he fouled this one up so bad?

Anyway, I would like to retract what I said previously about Brown being unqualified to lead FEMA. I think it's still debatable, but at least he did have some relavent experience.
THAT should be the crux of the argument...

My guess is because this situation has never happened before...at least to my knowledge....

This is the biggest hurricane to hit the N.O. area since 1965...and this one was MUCH bigger...and it also jumped from a Cat 1 to a Cat 4 in less than two days' time...the geography must also be considered...

The people who claim they could have foreseen this are the same people who will bitch at the Federal Government when Mt. St. Helen's explodes again, when California falls into the Pacific, and Yosemite State Park turns itself into a mega-volcano...

Keep in mind that we're dealing with Mommy Nature...that's where most of the blame should lie...
 

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Binary_Digit said:
Cnredd, thanks for the link. So he was an assistant city manager overseeing emergency services in Oklahoma, and he served on the president's policy coordination group that responded to the 9/11 attacks, before being appointed as the "Under Secretary". It sounds like he had some experience with emergency response, but this was his first job as the leader of an emergency response team. And according to the rest of that link, he's done a fantastic job leading Homeland Security with the other 164 presidentially declared disasters and emergencies. In fact, he has direct experience with hurricanes:

"In 2004, Mr. Brown led FEMA’s thousands of dedicated disaster workers during the most active hurricane season in over 100 years, as FEMA delivered aid more quickly and more efficiently than ever before."

So I wonder how he fouled this one up so bad?

Anyway, I would like to retract what I said previously about Brown being unqualified to lead FEMA. I think it's still debatable, but at least he did have some relavent experience.
xxxxxxxxxxxx


I don't have the link but I have heard some of the 164 "disasters and emergencies" were meaningless and duplicates.

Its time for ALL of our policticans to put politics behind and put some qualified people in every department.
The days of hiring their relatives, campaign workers, or their relatives and others that are not up to the challenge should be over.

Rush said something to the effect that a hurricane is in the atlantic and they just don't know where it will go and Brown was sent to Washington to deal with the BIG PICTURE!:roll: :doh
 

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I was very happy with this news until I heard that Brown is still the director of FEMA. :doh
 

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Binary_Digit said:
So I wonder how he fouled this one up so bad?
Because he didn't have Jeb Bush there to hold his hand?
 

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cnredd said:
Prior to joining FEMA, Mr. Brown practiced law in Colorado and Oklahoma, where he served as a bar examiner on ethics and professional responsibility for the Oklahoma Supreme Court and as a hearing examiner for the Colorado Supreme Court. He had been appointed as a special prosecutor in police disciplinary matters. While attending law school he was appointed by the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee of the Oklahoma Legislature as the Finance Committee Staff Director, where he oversaw state fiscal issues. His background in state and local government also includes serving as an assistant city manager with emergency services oversight and as a city councilman.

Mr. Brown was also an adjunct professor of law for the Oklahoma City University.

A native of Oklahoma, Mr. Brown holds a bachelor's degree in Public Administration/Political Science from Central State University, Oklahoma. He received his J.D. from Oklahoma City University’s School of Law.


http://www.fema.gov/about/bios/brown.shtm

This is, in no way, a defense of him...He should be fired...

In fact, he should be re-hired just so Bush can fire him AGAIN....

But the "Arabian horse" stuff thrown out is childish...so "yes; it IS leftist rhetoric"....another unnecesary cheap shot...it's becoming "expected"...
I don't believe he was ever a professor anywhere. His emergency services job in OK was back in the 70's and he only had it for 3 years.
 

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taxpayer said:
xxxxxxxxxxxx


I don't have the link but I have heard some of the 164 "disasters and emergencies" were meaningless and duplicates.

Its time for ALL of our policticans to put politics behind and put some qualified people in every department.
The days of hiring their relatives, campaign workers, or their relatives and others that are not up to the challenge should be over.

Rush said something to the effect that a hurricane is in the atlantic and they just don't know where it will go and Brown was sent to Washington to deal with the BIG PICTURE!:roll: :doh
The problem wasn't so much the leadership, but the confusion of the chain of command. I am a part of a CAT (Crisis Action Team) for the Marine Forces Atlantic. My part in this is to help with the planning and sourcing of personnel and gear for the Communications side. I attend two meetings a day and part of this CAT duty is to make a "lessons learned" package together, which is a part of everything we do anyway. I thought you might be interested to know a little about what is going beyond the ignorance os surface blame. Take it for what it is worth, but don't bother asking me for a "link."

1) What we have discovered for the Marine Corps side is that we flooded FEMA with gear and personnel before it was requested. This caused a lot of confusion. The confusion on our side was that their were no orders cut and there was no accountability. Which means we hade Marine units "self-deploying" on verbal orders, but there was no paper trail. We were also sending gear with very loose accountability. We are still trying to locate because as requests are coming in, we have to support it. We can't support it if the gear is already in the AO, but we aren't sure who has it!

2) What we have discovered for the FEMA side is that we were not the only ones doing this after Katrina hit. The Army was doing it as well and so were many other non-military organizations. FEMA had no infrastructure set up for something this big and was not prepared for the massive arrival of aid from so many agencies. There was no record and there was civil laws that stood in the way of certain efforts. (You are still seeing some of that on the news). There was a lot of confusion on what "individual" was to receive all of this support and what "individual" military units were checking in with. This all occurred directly after Katrina left.

Basicly, between the military and FEMA, we are finding that the Chain of Command and Control was a nightmare. The Marine Corps has a very established Comman and Control set in concrete, but something like this demanded alternate paths and we were jumping through hoops with civilian and government agencies. Now, if we were not prepared for something like this (which really isn't our job anyway), imagine how the rest of the government was.

On a side note, so that you can put this into a better perspective as far as how deep this is cutting into the government....my father is a Federal Wildlife Preserve Officer (Game Warden) stationed at Camp Lejeune, NC. He and the rest of his "poacher hunters" are being sent to LA on Tuesday.

This is bigger than people think. As more and more issues are brought to the surface, I'm reminded of all of the ignorant ones, that wanted to place sole blame on the President.
 

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scottyz said:
I was very happy with this news until I heard that Brown is still the director of FEMA. :doh
I believe it is called the 'Peter Principle'. A person advances to his highest state of incompetence.
 

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Questions about Brown's resume

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4231170.stm
'Inaccuracies and lies'

Allegations were raised that he had padded his resume to exaggerate his previous experience in emergency management.

As news broke of his transfer back to Washington, Michael Brown told AP news agency in an interview that he was keen to return there to "correct all the inaccuracies and lies that are being said".

"I'm still the director of Fema," he said in the telephone interview.
The New Republic:
More below the fold.
"Brown's biography on FEMA's website reports that he's a graduate of the Oklahoma City University School of Law. This is not, to put it charitably, a well-known institution. For example, I've been a law professor for the past 15 years and have never heard of it. Of more relevance is the fact that, until 2003, the school was not even a member of the Association of American Law Schools (AALS)--the organization that, along with the American Bar Association, accredits the nation's law schools. Most prospective law students won't even consider applying to a non-AALS law school unless they have no other option, because many employers have a policy of not considering graduates of non-AALS institutions. So it's fair to say that Brown embarked on his prospective legal career from the bottom of the profession's hierarchy.
So what did Brown, who received his J.D. in 1981, do with his non-AALS law degree? In 1985, Brown joined the firm of Long, Ford, Lester & Brown in Enid, Oklahoma. When I spoke to one of its former members, Andrew Lester (the firm no longer exists), he recalled that Brown was with the firm for only "about 18 months." Lester, who is a longtime friend of Brown, believes that Brown spent most of his time in the first few years after law school pursuing his own legal practice and representing the interests of a prominent local family. (...) Despite the claim of Brown's FEMA biography that he practiced law for 20 years prior to his 2001 appointment as FEMA's general counsel, it appears that, by 1987, he had already more or less abandoned his nascent legal career. From 1987 to 1990, Brown's resumé includes being the sacrificial lamb for the Oklahoma Republican Party in a 1988 congressional election, in which he won 27 percent of the vote against the incumbent Democrat, and stints as an assistant city manager and city councilman in Edmond, Oklahoma. (According to FEMA, because of these positions, "Mike Brown has a lot of experience managing people.") By 1991, he had moved to Colorado, where he became commissioner of judges and stewards for the International Arabian Horse Association (IAHA). This position, which never made his FEMA bio, was Brown's full-time job from 1991 to 2001, and it had nothing to do with the practice of law.
Brown's job was to make sure that horse show judges followed the rules, and his enthusiasm for their strict enforcement won him the nickname of "the czar," as well as the enmity of contestants, some of whom sued the Association, as well as Brown himself. According to a September 6 Denver Post article, Brown became embroiled in controversy when allegations were made that, to help pay his legal fees, Brown solicited a nearly $50,000 contribution from an IAHA member whose conduct he was supposed to regulate. (...)
What, then, are we to make of the claim in Brown's FEMA biography that, prior to joining the Agency, he had spent most of his professional career practicing law in Colorado? Normally, an attorney practicing law in a state for ten years would have left a record of his experience in public documents. But just about the only evidence of Brown's Colorado legal career is the Web page he submitted to Findlaw.com, an Internet site for people seeking legal representation. There, he lists himself as a member of the "International Arabian Horse Association Legal Dept." and claims to be competent to practice law across a dizzying spectrum of specialties -- estate planning, family law, employment law for both plaintiffs and defendants, real-estate law, sports law, labor law, and legislative practice. With all this expertise, it's all the more striking that one can't find any other evidence of Brown's legal career in Colorado.
So what legal work did Mike Brown perform before his stunning reversal of fortune? According to his FEMA biography, "[H]e served as a bar examiner on ethics and professional responsibility for the Oklahoma Supreme Court and as a hearing examiner for the Colorado Supreme Court." Translation: In Oklahoma, he graded answers to bar exam questions, and, in Colorado, he volunteered to serve on the local attorney disciplinary board.
When Brown left the IAHA four years ago, he was, among other things, a failed former lawyer -- a man with a 20-year-old degree from a semi-accredited law school who hadn't attempted to practice law in a serious way in nearly 15 years and who had just been forced out of his job in the wake of charges of impropriety. At this point in his life, returning to his long-abandoned legal career would have been very difficult in the competitive Colorado legal market. Yet, within months of leaving the IAHA, he was handed one of the top legal positions in the entire federal government: general counsel for a major federal agency. A year later, he was made its number-two official, and, a year after that, Bush appointed him director of FEMA.
 
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Pacridge said:
Wonder how long it will be before Bush gives Brown the Presidential Medal of Freedom for his catastrophic success?

Ba da bing! lol

Based on previous experience watching the White House deal with incompetence something must have really went wrong for this to be coming down. It seems we have whipping boy at long last....and he's a failed lawyer and Arabian Horse judge watcher something or other. Gee, thanks Mr. President.
 

cnredd

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Referring to scottyz's article...

I thought I'd look up "The New Republic" and see if it was partisan or not...

Ha!...You be the judge...These are there most recent articles just on the Supreme Court...


Give and Take by David Kusnet
Post date 09.06.05
What Roberts will likely say at his hearing, and how Democratic senators should respond.

The Rehnquist Revolution by Cass R. Sunstein
Post date 09.05.05
Rehnquist moved the Court dramatically in his preferred directions.

Sister Act by Jeffrey Rosen
Post date 09.05.05
How Rehnquist sought to turn history on its head.

Outside In by Will Baude
Post date 09.05.05
The case for choosing a chief justice from outside the Court.

Plan of Attack by Eric Columbus
Post date 08.30.05
Next week Democrats can criticize Roberts and big government at the same time.

Hearing Aid by Andrew R. Dennington
Post date 08.17.05
Questions Senate Democrats should ask during John Roberts's confirmation hearing.

Racial Justice by Noam Scheiber
Post date 08.05.05
The civil rights memos that John Roberts wrote in the 1980s reflect the conservatism of the time. Unfortunately for Republicans, it's 2005.

Bottoms Up by Jeffrey Rosen
Post date 07.21.05
John Roberts is a conservative, not an ideologue.

Unnatural Selection by Ryan Lizza
Post date 07.20.05
By choosing Roberts, Bush broke with most of his known habits.
 

shuamort

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I guess this answers the question "What Can Brown do for you?" Answer: "Not much."
 

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Here is another source:http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1103003,00.html

But I suppose Time Magazine wont be good enough for you either...

Before joining FEMA, his only previous stint in emergency management, according to his bio posted on FEMA's website, was "serving as an assistant city manager with emergency services oversight." The White House press release from 2001 stated that Brown worked for the city of Edmond, Okla., from 1975 to 1978 "overseeing the emergency services division." In fact, according to Claudia Deakins, head of public relations for the city of Edmond, Brown was an "assistant to the city manager" from 1977 to 1980, not a manager himself, and had no authority over other employees. "The assistant is more like an intern," she told TIME. "Department heads did not report to him." Brown did do a good job at his humble position, however, according to his boss. "Yes. Mike Brown worked for me. He was my administrative assistant. He was a student at Central State University," recalls former city manager Bill Dashner. "Mike used to handle a lot of details. Every now and again I'd ask him to write me a speech. He was very loyal. He was always on time. He always had on a suit and a starched white shirt."

In response, Nicol Andrews, deputy strategic director in FEMA's office of public affairs, insists that while Brown began as an intern, he became an "assistant city manager" with a distinguished record of service. "According to Mike Brown," she says, "a large portion [of the points raised by TIME] is very inaccurate."

Brown's lack of experience in emergency management isn't the only apparent bit of padding on his resume, which raises questions about how rigorously the White House vetted him before putting him in charge of FEMA. Under the "honors and awards" section of his profile at FindLaw.com — which is information on the legal website provided by lawyers or their offices—he lists "Outstanding Political Science Professor, Central State University". However, Brown "wasn't a professor here, he was only a student here," says Charles Johnson, News Bureau Director in the University Relations office at the University of Central Oklahoma (formerly named Central State University). "He may have been an adjunct instructor," says Johnson, but that title is very different from that of "professor." Carl Reherman, a former political science professor at the University through the '70s and '80s, says that Brown "was not on the faculty." As for the honor of "Outstanding Political Science Professor," Johnson says, "I spoke with the department chair yesterday and he's not aware of it." Johnson could not confirm that Brown made the Dean's list or was an "Outstanding Political Science Senior," as is stated on his online profile.

Speaking for Brown, Andrews says that Brown has never claimed to be a political science professor, in spite of what his profile in FindLaw indicates. "He was named the outstanding political science senior at Central State, and was an adjunct professor at Oklahoma City School of Law."

Under the heading of "Professional Associations and Memberships" on FindLaw, Brown states that from 1983 to the present he has been director of the Oklahoma Christian Home, a nursing home in Edmond. But an administrator with the Home told TIME that Brown is "not a person that anyone here is familiar with." She says there was a board of directors until a couple of years ago, but she couldn't find anyone who recalled him being on it. According to FEMA's Andrews, Brown said "he's never claimed to be the director of the home. He was on the board of directors, or governors of the nursing home." However, a veteran employee at the center since 1981 says Brown "was never director here, was never on the board of directors, was never executive director. He was never here in any capacity. I never heard his name mentioned here."
 

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shuamort said:
I guess this answers the question "What Can Brown do for you?" Answer: "Not much."

Now that is funny!
 

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GySgt said:
The problem wasn't so much the leadership, but the confusion of the chain of command. I am a part of a CAT (Crisis Action Team) for the Marine Forces Atlantic. My part in this is to help with the planning and sourcing of personnel and gear for the Communications side. I attend two meetings a day and part of this CAT duty is to make a "lessons learned" package together, which is a part of everything we do anyway. I thought you might be interested to know a little about what is going beyond the ignorance os surface blame. Take it for what it is worth, but don't bother asking me for a "link."

1) What we have discovered for the Marine Corps side is that we flooded FEMA with gear and personnel before it was requested. This caused a lot of confusion. The confusion on our side was that their were no orders cut and there was no accountability. Which means we hade Marine units "self-deploying" on verbal orders, but there was no paper trail. We were also sending gear with very loose accountability. We are still trying to locate because as requests are coming in, we have to support it. We can't support it if the gear is already in the AO, but we aren't sure who has it!

2) What we have discovered for the FEMA side is that we were not the only ones doing this after Katrina hit. The Army was doing it as well and so were many other non-military organizations. FEMA had no infrastructure set up for something this big and was not prepared for the massive arrival of aid from so many agencies. There was no record and there was civil laws that stood in the way of certain efforts. (You are still seeing some of that on the news). There was a lot of confusion on what "individual" was to receive all of this support and what "individual" military units were checking in with. This all occurred directly after Katrina left.

Basicly, between the military and FEMA, we are finding that the Chain of Command and Control was a nightmare. The Marine Corps has a very established Comman and Control set in concrete, but something like this demanded alternate paths and we were jumping through hoops with civilian and government agencies. Now, if we were not prepared for something like this (which really isn't our job anyway), imagine how the rest of the government was.

On a side note, so that you can put this into a better perspective as far as how deep this is cutting into the government....my father is a Federal Wildlife Preserve Officer (Game Warden) stationed at Camp Lejeune, NC. He and the rest of his "poacher hunters" are being sent to LA on Tuesday.

This is bigger than people think. As more and more issues are brought to the surface, I'm reminded of all of the ignorant ones, that wanted to place sole blame on the President.
xxxxxxxxxxxx

Thanks for the nice interesting informative post! That kinda puts some things in perspective getting some inside info and views.

I hear you! I know its not just Bush. I said that on another thread where I blamed them all. Your post changes a lot of things in my mind.
I hope that they get things changed before another national crisis occurs.
Maybe two divisions, one for disasters and one for national security, defense?
Then the one division that is called will be in charge and the other doing whatever they can under the supervision of the division in charge???

You now though, its always the Boss or Chief in Command that takes the heat and blame.
Lets just hope that this is a wake up call and they will have learned from this.
I can't even immagine how big this will be when all is said and done.
 

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mixed media said:
Ba da bing! lol

Based on previous experience watching the White House deal with incompetence something must have really went wrong for this to be coming down. It seems we have whipping boy at long last....and he's a failed lawyer and Arabian Horse judge watcher something or other. Gee, thanks Mr. President.

Well the fact he was sent back to DC to remain the head of FEMA just leaves me asking the question, just how bad of job does one of Bush's Friends have to do to actually get the ax? Three or fours days into this I saw Bush on the TV telling Brown what a great job he was doing. WTF! That means either Bush supports his cronies no matter how poorly they preform, or he's so clueless as to the reality of things it's just plain scary. This whole event reaffirms everything I dislike about this admin. Plan poorly, then hold no one accountable.
 

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GySgt said:
1) What we have discovered for the Marine Corps side is that we flooded FEMA with gear and personnel before it was requested. This caused a lot of confusion. The confusion on our side was that their were no orders cut and there was no accountability. Which means we hade Marine units "self-deploying" on verbal orders, but there was no paper trail. We were also sending gear with very loose accountability. We are still trying to locate because as requests are coming in, we have to support it. We can't support it if the gear is already in the AO, but we aren't sure who has it!

2) What we have discovered for the FEMA side is that we were not the only ones doing this after Katrina hit. The Army was doing it as well and so were many other non-military organizations. FEMA had no infrastructure set up for something this big and was not prepared for the massive arrival of aid from so many agencies. There was no record and there was civil laws that stood in the way of certain efforts. (You are still seeing some of that on the news). There was a lot of confusion on what "individual" was to receive all of this support and what "individual" military units were checking in with. This all occurred directly after Katrina left.
That is freaking incredible. The Marines and Army showed up with manpower and equipment to help, and FEMA didn't utilize them, didn't even know what to do with them all. They weren't set up for something this big. That's good for terrorists to know, for when they make plans to bomb the Hoover dam.

Let's see, you're in charge of a Federal agency that was created by the President in response to the worst terrorist attack on American soil in history. The President has repeatedly warned about weapons of mass destruction that could annihilate entire cities. What do you do? Not know how to coordinate a city-wide emergency effort. Brilliant! And this guy is still in charge?!

Oh - and I thought civilian laws would be out of the picture, since the governor declared a state of emergency, and that's the next closest thing to maritime law in Louisiana.
 

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Liberal
Binary_Digit said:
Let's see, you're in charge of a Federal agency that was created by the President in response to the worst terrorist attack on American soil in history. The President has repeatedly warned about weapons of mass destruction that could annihilate entire cities. What do you do? Not know how to coordinate a city-wide emergency effort. Brilliant! And this guy is still in charge?!
This is a very good point indeed. There is no getting around federal accountability for how this crisis was handled. I don't care if the mayor and governor were Laurel and Hardy. Louisiana is an economically challenged state, thus it has a disadvantage in dealing with crises that states with more stable economies don't, such as Florida. For an administration that has managed to invade and occupy not one, but two foreign countries during its 5 or so years of tenure, it seems a little odd that they had so much trouble getting a sufficient force of manpower and supplies into one of our own states.
 
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