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British power generation achieves first ever coal-free day

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Middleground said:
Awwwww.... all those poor workers out of jobs! :(
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But don't feel too badly. Most of the lost jobs on this one will be in Australia, Poland, Irland or wherever else the coal is mined. ;)
 
yankintx said:
Looks like the Brits have turned off there reliance on coal. I applaud this decision, move forward and dont look back.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...coal-free-day-since-the-industrial-revolution
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As far as I can see, the only problem is that this makes alternative energy much more expensive than meets the eye. At least in Germany this is the case, where they export coal generated power below cost to keep the alternative plant running. The subsidies are well over half the price to the consumer, who must pay it, nonetheless.
 
joG said:
But don't feel too badly. Most of the lost jobs on this one will be in Australia, Poland, Irland or wherever else the coal is mined. ;)
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Why would the UK want to import coal from Eastern Europe when they have no need? Did you even read the link?
 
joG said:
But don't feel too badly. Most of the lost jobs on this one will be in Australia, Poland, Irland or wherever else the coal is mined. ;)
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UK First !! Something Trump supporters should understand.
 
Bob N said:
Well this is sort of like the way Trump says he is going to bring back coal in KY. First, most of the easy coal has been dug up and the remainder is too deep and costly. Second, even if they do dig it up why would people buy it when natural gas is cheaper?
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Coal is sooo 18th Century, and its too expensive to make clean, go nuclear !!
 
Bob N said:
Well this is sort of like the way Trump says he is going to bring back coal in KY. First, most of the easy coal has been dug up and the remainder is too deep and costly. Second, even if they do dig it up why would people buy it when natural gas is cheaper?
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I think you have a point, but those who pray for the demise of coal as a fuel want nothing to do with NG or nuclear either.
 
yankintx said:
Coal is sooo 18th Century, and its too expensive to make clean, go nuclear !!
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Here in the US we blow entire mountains up to get much of our coal. There is no making that clean.
 
joG said:
But don't feel too badly. Most of the lost jobs on this one will be in Australia, Poland, Irland or wherever else the coal is mined. ;)
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Coal is mined in Northwest England and Wales. The joke about bringing coals to Newcastle is because Newcastle was known for its coal mines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_the_United_Kingdom

I seriously doubt anyone mines coal in Australia to be used in the UK. It is halfway around the world from the UK (hence, as far away as you can get). Can you imagine the transportation costs? West Virginia is much closer to the UK than Australia. Australia sells its coal in the Asia markets.

Really a good idea to fact check yourself before posting.
 
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jimbo said:
I think you have a point, but those who pray for the demise of coal as a fuel want nothing to do with NG or nuclear either.
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..and your cite for this is .....
 
upsideguy said:
..and your cite for this is .....
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Nuclear energy deserves a second look for sure, but the damn plants are so expensive to build and get on line.
 
yankintx said:
Nuclear energy deserves a second look for sure, but the damn plants are so expensive to build and get on line.
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What seems to be lost on many people is that coal is no longer economically viable. Its extraction costs to high as are the costs of keeping the air clean when its burned. Cheap natural gas has pretty much moved coal to the obsolete inventory shelf. That could change, as these things do, but the coal mines are closed largely because of economics.
 
upsideguy said:
What seems to be lost on many people is that coal is no longer economically viable. Its extraction costs to high as are the costs of keeping the air clean when its burned. Cheap natural gas has pretty much moved coal to the obsolete inventory shelf. That could change, as these things do, but the coal mines are closed largely because of economics.
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If coal wasn't economically viable, there wouldn't be a need for the government to regulate the coal industry out of business; it would die a natural death.
 
apdst said:
If coal wasn't economically viable, there wouldn't be a need for the government to regulate the coal industry out of business; it would die a natural death.
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Coal is not economically viable. The idea that it has been regulated out of existence is a myth. Coal can't compete with natural gas (and renewables). It has died an honorable natural capitalist death.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2016/03/18/whats-killing-the-coal-industry/#7f8826f07dd4
Coal Industry is Dying, No Matter What a President Trump Would Do
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...y-central-appalachias-coal-industry-is-dying/
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/opinion/the-coal-industry-isnt-coming-back.html?_r=0

There is a cry room down the hall, if you need to use it.
 
upsideguy said:
Coal is not economically viable. The idea that it has been regulated out of existence is a myth. Coal can't compete with natural gas (and renewables). It has died an honorable natural capitalist death.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2016/03/18/whats-killing-the-coal-industry/#7f8826f07dd4
Coal Industry is Dying, No Matter What a President Trump Would Do
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...y-central-appalachias-coal-industry-is-dying/
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/opinion/the-coal-industry-isnt-coming-back.html?_r=0
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Then why bother regulating it's use out of existance?
 
apdst said:
Then why bother regulating it's use out of existance?
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I just produced four cites telling us the coal died because it wasn't economically viable. You offer nothing to counter that except from the voices in your head. Unless you can show us some 3rd party evidence that supports your notion that regulation killed the coal industry, it is nothing more than your fantasy. No one is interested in your fantasies.
 
upsideguy said:
I just produced four cites telling us the coal died because it wasn't economically viable. You offer nothing to counter that except from the voices in your head. Unless you can show us some 3rd party evidence that supports your notion that regulation killed the coal industry, it is nothing more than your fantasy. No one is interested in your fantasies.
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It isn't the government's job to decide who stays in business and who doesn't.
 
apdst said:
It isn't the government's job to decide who stays in business and who doesn't.
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Again, when you return from fantasy island, we can have a meaningful discussion. I gave you four cites that told us the coal industry died because it could not compete economically with natural gas. You have offered NOTHING to support you position, which, as it is not defensible, I could start to label as delusions.

yes, the industry does have its fair share of regulations. Since coal mining is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world (it will kill you one way or another), it is in the spotlight of OSHA...

Coal Mining Is The Most Dangerous Job In The World, So WTF Do We Keep Doing It For? - All Day

and, since burning coal produces acid rain, dirty air and contributes to global warming, it is of interest to the EPA as well.

coal power: air pollution | Union of Concerned Scientists

Substantially all of the workplace and clear air regulations were required. Most have been in place for decades, even when the coal industry was robust. There is nothing substantially new regulation wise that has changed the economic fortunes of coal.

As the articles pointed out, you could get rid of every regulation relating to coal and the mines still would be closed. The idea that coal is coming back because of Trump is similar to another fantasy that manufacturing is returning. Each were elements of snake oil sold by the master snake oil salesmen and bought by people woefully uneducated on these issues.

Face it, coal is a dirty industry that we simply do not need.
 
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apdst said:
It isn't the government's job to decide who stays in business and who doesn't.
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Well they've very much decided over the years to keep the fossil fuel industry in business. How do you think it became profitable in the first place!
 
upsideguy said:
Again, when you return from fantasy island, we can have a meaningful discussion. I gave you four cites that told us the coal industry died because it could not compete economically with natural gas. You have offered NOTHING to support you position, which I will start to label as delusions.

yes, the industry does have its fair share of regulations. Since coal mining is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world (it will kill you one way or another), it is in the spotlight of OSHA... and, since burning coal produces acid rain, dirty air and contributes to global warming, it is of interest to the EPA as well. Substantially all of the workplace and clear air regulations were required. It is an ugly industry that we really do not need.

As the articles pointed out, you could get rid of every regulation relating to coal and the mines still would be closed. The idea that coal is coming back because of Trump is similar to another fantasy that manufacturing is returning. Each were elements of snake oil sold by the master snake oil salesmen and bought by people woefully uneducated on these issues.
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Then let it be so. It isn't the government's job to pick winners and losers. How hard is that for you to understand?
 
Nilly said:
Well they've very much decided over the years to keep the fossil fuel industry in business. How do you think it became profitable in the first place!
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It became profitable because of the efficiency of fossil fuels.
 
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