British Man Sets Himself On Fire [W:31]

[Wiggen]

I wonder if the rate of suicide is increasing among the British?

Why would it increase among the British as opposed to any other nation? What a strange question.

 

[reedak]

You are aware suicide rates are higher in china?

Yes. but at least I don't take an irrational stand and spread infinite chaos like our friend here by dismissing those desperate jobless people who were driven to suicide by financial difficulties as "mentally unstable".

Current Worldwide Suicide Rate

 

[Alyssa]

It's seriously depraved how people are making jokes about this. Just sad.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Yes. but at least I don't take an irrational stand and spread infinite chaos like our friend here by dismissing those desperate jobless people who were driven to suicide by financial difficulties as "mentally unstable".

Current Worldwide Suicide Rate

You believe that setting yourself on fire is a rational response to unemployment?

 

[Das Sozialist]

This has happened before, not just in the UK, but in Tibet as well as a few North-African countries. I think the self-igniting is more of a cry for change than anything. If he just wanted to kill himself there's plenty of other ways to do it, less painful ones too.

 

[Alyssa]

This has happened before, not just in the UK, but in Tibet as well as a few North-African countries. I think the self-igniting is more of a cry for change than anything. If he just wanted to kill himself there's plenty of other ways to do it, less painful ones too.

This. 100 times.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

You still persist on your irrational stand without a human face. No wonder the writer of the article in my second post sarcastically calls himself "the only sane man left" in Britain.

The essence of his article lies not in madness but in the last two statements of his article:

"Our corruption is hidden. As it becomes revealed the risk is that corruption spreads down – the cascade model."

Suicides rates rose sharply in Europe in 2007 to 2009 as the financial crisis drove unemployment up and squeezed incomes. In Britain, suicide rates rose from a recent low of 6.14 per 100,000 people aged under 65 in 2007, to 6.75 in 2008 - an increase of 10 per cent, and remained similarly high in 2009.

Please refer to Suicide up 'due to financial crisis' - The Irish Times - Fri, Jul 08, 2011

You can continue with your irrationality and infinite chaos by writing your own article entitled "Suicide up 'due to madness'" in a reputable newspaper.

In conclusion, here is another tragic case in the UK. It has nothing to do with madness but about an army veteran and his wife committing suicide after becoming destitute and being left to ‘fall through the social services gap’.

Please refer to Married couple Mark and Helen Mullins driven to commit suicide by utter poverty | Metro.co.uk

I'm still at a loss what actual point you're trying to make - first it was Chinese protests in Hong Kong and then you seem to have taken great offense to my describing a mentally unstable person as just what he was when he set himself on fire - "mentally unstable."

You're entertaining, I will give you that. Anyway, here's what I originally wrote and I'm staying with it till further information comes out-

-- Anyhow, back to the poor guy whose desperation led him to self-immolate, this is the second incident in a year. On the one hand we have vulnerable people at the lowest end whose incapacity support is being threatened to save pennies and at the other end we have back-to-work agencies which are being investigated for milking the public purse with bogus claims of fake people being put into work.

I am a believer in getting people into work and the dignity of work however I am also a believer in fairness and people at the top taking their share of the national pain. The full circumstances of the Birmingham case are not out yet and I will await judgement on the individual case.

In the meantime, kindly explain why you find the word "mentally unstable" so upsetting and then explain why you would think anyone going against the natural instinct for self-preservation and setting themselves on fire would be a completely sane, rational thing to do?

We might start to get somewhere if you can do this without resorting to further irrelevant cases.

 

[reedak]

I'm still at a loss what actual point you're trying to make - first it was Chinese protests in Hong Kong.....

During the recent July 1 protest in Hong Kong, some protesters carried the British colonial flag. One protester even wrapped the colonial flag round his own body, and another tried to burn the Hong Kong (SAR) flag.

To those ignorant dreamers, Britain seems like the "heaven". If they know the economic situation in Britain, they should realise that Hong Kong may be the "frying pan" but not as bad as the British "fire".

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/07/07/uk-crisis-europe-suicides-idUKTRE7667QK20110707

Britain's economic crisis deepens even as others recover – Telegraph Blogs

Broke Britain: millions face struggle to stay afloat as financial crisis hits home - Home News - UK - The Independent

Britain could be hardest hit by financial crisis, says IMF - Telegraph

Why do people care so much when people burn a flag? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers

......and then you seem to have taken great offense to my describing a mentally unstable person as just what he was when he set himself on fire - "mentally unstable."

In the meantime, kindly explain why you find the word "mentally unstable" so upsetting and then explain why you would think anyone going against the natural instinct for self-preservation and setting themselves on fire would be a completely sane, rational thing to do?........

Following is full text of the article Protesters join demonstration against cuts outside Selly Oak job centre where man set fire to himself - Sunday Mercury

(Begin text)
DOZENS of activists staged an angry protest outside a Birmingham job centre where a desperate claimant set himself on fire.

The 48-year-old man, who has not been named, is recovering in a specialist burns unit at a city hospital after tying himself to railings and starting the blaze outside the centre in Harborne Lane, Selly Oak on Thursday morning.

Saturday's demonstration was organised by welfare campaigners from Birmingham Against The Cuts.

“The welfare cuts and reforms have left cracks in the system that are clearly pushing people into desperate situations,” said spokesman Tom Holness.

“We are here to generally protest against changes such as benefit reforms and cuts in welfare payments.

“The political parties differ in scale rather than in ideas. New Labour and Conservatives both had the same ideology.

“The British Medical Association voted unanimously that a test by Atos Healthcare, who do disability assessments to see if you’re fit for work, wasn’t fit for the purpose. Atos were hired by New Labour, and Workfare – making people do unpaid work for benefits – was also brought in by them.”

Chris Hughes, who founded new political party Communities Against The Cuts said: “The prolonged attack on benefits by Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith and Work and Pensions Minister Chris Grayling has led to us being here.

"Who could have predicted that a man would set fire to himself? It’s an appalling situation. That millionaires are dictating how the sick, unemployed and disabled are treated is an absolute disgrace.”

Ian Nannestad, of the TUC Centre for the Unemployed in Sparkhill said: “There are a lot of people being moved from incapacity benefit to Jobseekers’ allowance by being reassessed, as it’s called.

“They’re all very vulnerable. They are not being assessed by the Department for Work and Pensions. They are given a 40-minute so-called medical assessment by Atos, which is totally superficial.”

There was a huge amount of sympathy for the man who set fire to himself.

Stalingrad O’Neill of the Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist) said of the burns victim: “Presumably he was in a bad state to do this.

"His money was stopped and these days the Government has stopped giving even emergency loans. From what I’ve heard, he hadn’t had any money for about a month.”

The DWP declined to comment on the case. (End text)

Nobody would want to torch himself or commit suicide by any other means unless he believes there is absolutely no hope for him to get out of his desperate situation. Suicide is perceived as liberation or a way to end the suffering.

Like the Birmingham activists, I would be angry if faced with such happening in my country. Like all other people, I would be worrying for myself, my family and relatives if the unemployment situation in my country worsens.

If you happened to be outside the Birmingham job centre that day and told the activists that the desperate unemployed man was "mentally unstable", what do you think would be their response? Would they take great offence to your insensitive remark or give you a round of applause?

Imagine the kind of world we would be living in if all politicians, faced with rising unemployment in their countries, just take the easy way out by condemning all the desperate jobless people to the lunatic asylum and waiting for them to commit suicide instead of trying to solve the jobless problems in their countries.

Why Suicide?

 

[reedak]

You believe that setting yourself on fire is a rational response to unemployment?

That's why a (live) fish often jumps from the frying pan into the fire.

It's easy to say anything when we are not in the same situation as that desperate job seeker.

Imagine you become unemployed one day and can't even get a single reply regardless of the number of letters posted to the companies. Gradually you will feel desperate and despair. Pray that you will not get into this type of situation.

It was a catch-22 for the desperate unemployed man -- either died faster by suicide or be starved to death slowly.

In addition, his self-immolation could act as a form of protest to his government.

Catch-22 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Manc Skipper]

Is that a "yes"?

 

[reedak]

Is that a "yes"?

You still don't understand that the desperate job seeker is caught in a catch-22 situation.

Let's take another analogy. Suppose you were pursued by a tiger to a cliff near the sea. Instead of leaping off the high cliff to the sea below in desperation, you could sit down calmly, smiling like a Buddha, and wait to die in bliss in the tiger's stomach.

Then I would have no choice but to take my hat off to you and say yes, yes, yes......even up to a thousand times.

Though one terrible bite of the tiger could end your life in a split second, that moment of desperation could feel like eternity to you -- "an awfully long time, especially towards the end".

 

[Infinite Chaos]

During the recent July 1 protest in Hong Kong, some protesters carried the British colonial flag. One protester even wrapped the colonial flag round his own body, and another tried to burn the Hong Kong (SAR) flag.

To those ignorant dreamers, Britain seems like the "heaven". If they know the economic situation in Britain, they should realise that Hong Kong may be the "frying pan" but not as bad as the British "fire".

European suicide rates pushed higher by financial crisis | Reuters

Britain's economic crisis deepens even as others recover – Telegraph Blogs

Broke Britain: millions face struggle to stay afloat as financial crisis hits home - Home News - UK - The Independent

Britain could be hardest hit by financial crisis, says IMF - Telegraph

Why do people care so much when people burn a flag? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers



Following is full text of the article Protesters join demonstration against cuts outside Selly Oak job centre where man set fire to himself - Sunday Mercury

(Begin text)
DOZENS of activists staged an angry protest outside a Birmingham job centre where a desperate claimant set himself on fire.

The 48-year-old man, who has not been named, is recovering in a specialist burns unit at a city hospital after tying himself to railings and starting the blaze outside the centre in Harborne Lane, Selly Oak on Thursday morning.

Saturday's demonstration was organised by welfare campaigners from Birmingham Against The Cuts.

“The welfare cuts and reforms have left cracks in the system that are clearly pushing people into desperate situations,” said spokesman Tom Holness.

“We are here to generally protest against changes such as benefit reforms and cuts in welfare payments.

“The political parties differ in scale rather than in ideas. New Labour and Conservatives both had the same ideology.

“The British Medical Association voted unanimously that a test by Atos Healthcare, who do disability assessments to see if you’re fit for work, wasn’t fit for the purpose. Atos were hired by New Labour, and Workfare – making people do unpaid work for benefits – was also brought in by them.”

Chris Hughes, who founded new political party Communities Against The Cuts said: “The prolonged attack on benefits by Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith and Work and Pensions Minister Chris Grayling has led to us being here.

"Who could have predicted that a man would set fire to himself? It’s an appalling situation. That millionaires are dictating how the sick, unemployed and disabled are treated is an absolute disgrace.”

Ian Nannestad, of the TUC Centre for the Unemployed in Sparkhill said: “There are a lot of people being moved from incapacity benefit to Jobseekers’ allowance by being reassessed, as it’s called.

“They’re all very vulnerable. They are not being assessed by the Department for Work and Pensions. They are given a 40-minute so-called medical assessment by Atos, which is totally superficial.”

There was a huge amount of sympathy for the man who set fire to himself.

Stalingrad O’Neill of the Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist) said of the burns victim: “Presumably he was in a bad state to do this.

"His money was stopped and these days the Government has stopped giving even emergency loans. From what I’ve heard, he hadn’t had any money for about a month.”

The DWP declined to comment on the case. (End text)

Nobody would want to torch himself or commit suicide by any other means unless he believes there is absolutely no hope for him to get out of his desperate situation. Suicide is perceived as liberation or a way to end the suffering.

Like the Birmingham activists, I would be angry if faced with such happening in my country. Like all other people, I would be worrying for myself, my family and relatives if the unemployment situation in my country worsens.

If you happened to be outside the Birmingham job centre that day and told the activists that the desperate unemployed man was "mentally unstable", what do you think would be their response? Would they take great offence to your insensitive remark or give you a round of applause?

Imagine the kind of world we would be living in if all politicians, faced with rising unemployment in their countries, just take the easy way out by condemning all the desperate jobless people to the lunatic asylum and waiting for them to commit suicide instead of trying to solve the jobless problems in their countries.

Why Suicide?

Sorry, you still haven't explained why you have taken such umbrage at my calling someone who goes against the natural inclination for self preservation "mentally unstable". Do you think setting yourself on fire is an everyday act done by people who are in a rational and sane state of mind?

I note you seem desperate to politicise his action but this man also made threats against employment centre staff before he went outside and set fire to himself. Do you also think it's OK to make threats against people who have a difficult job to do?

 

[Manc Skipper]

You still don't understand that the desperate job seeker is caught in a catch-22 situation.

Let's take another analogy. Suppose you were pursued by a tiger to a cliff near the sea. Instead of leaping off the high cliff to the sea below in desperation, you could sit down calmly, smiling like a Buddha, and wait to die in bliss in the tiger's stomach.

Then I would have no choice but to take my hat off to you and say yes, yes, yes......even up to a thousand times.

Though one terrible bite of the tiger could end your life in a split second, that moment of desperation could feel like eternity to you -- "an awfully long time, especially towards the end".

Unemployment is an unhappy circumstance in which to find yourself, and having the meagre allowance cut back, even more so, but setting yourself on fire is such an extreme reaction that it crosses the boundary of "normal".

 

[paris]

[h=1]A 48-year-old job-seeker in Birmingham, UK, tied himself to the railings outside the Selly Oak job center this morning and set himself on fire, the Birmingham Mail reported.
“I think it was something to do with a payment he had not received,” an eyewitness told the Birmingham Mail. “He would have to have been very desperate to have done something like that.”

Unemployed man sets himself on fire outside British job center | GlobalPost

Very sad, reminds me of that tunisian fruit vender who set himself on fire, which seemed to be one of the main catalyist's That sparked Tunisia's revolution.
[/h]

Sounds like the front porches of UK job centers need more extinguishers than red carpets

 

[Alyssa]

Sorry, you still haven't explained why you have taken such umbrage at my calling someone who goes against the natural inclination for self preservation "mentally unstable". Do you think setting yourself on fire is an everyday act done by people who are in a rational and sane state of mind?

I note you seem desperate to politicise his action but this man also made threats against employment centre staff before he went outside and set fire to himself. Do you also think it's OK to make threats against people who have a difficult job to do?

You seem unable to grasp the concept of hopelessness.

Unemployment is an unhappy circumstance in which to find yourself, and having the meagre allowance cut back, even more so, but setting yourself on fire is such an extreme reaction that it crosses the boundary of "normal".

Define normal. I am willing to wager my meager life savings that most people give themselves too much credit on how well they think they would handle survival situations. Particularly those where they have the distinct disadvantage.

 

[reedak]

Sorry, you still haven't explained why you have taken such umbrage at my calling someone who goes against the natural inclination for self preservation "mentally unstable".

I believe nobody would want to end his own life unless he is forced into a desperate situation. It takes great courage for anyone to commit suicide. Personally I wish for a long life, perhaps living up to a hundred years. That's why I gamble occasionally in the hope that I have enough money to keep myself alive in the future without burdening my grandchildren.

However, I understand the plight of people who are driven to suicide by financial difficulties. I am more confident in my view after doing much research on the subject. Just to quote the observation of Psychologist Paul G. Quinnett, Ph.D. from his book 'Suicide: The Forever Decision': "As we have already discussed, however, you do not have to be mentally ill to take your own life. In fact, most people who do commit suicide are not legally `insane.'"

My view coincides with those of well-known personalities including a lawyer, psychiatrists, psychologists, doctors, professors, authors and even Herodotus. The following article entitled "SUICIDE: A Civil Right" by a well-known lawyer and author Lawrence Stevens should settle our argument once and for all. The excerpts below are taken from Suicide: A Civil Right

(Begin excerpts)
Thinking about suicide is commonplace. In his book Suicide, published in 1988, Earl A. Grollman says "Almost everybody at one time or another contemplates suicide" (Second Edition, Beacon Press, p. 2). In his book Suicide: The Forever Decision, published in 1987, psychologist Paul G. Quinnett, Ph.D., says "Research has shown that a substantial majority of people have considered suicide at one time in their lives, and I mean considered it seriously" (Continuum, p. 12).......

In contrast, the assertion that people have a right to not only think about but to commit suicide has been made by many people who believe in individual freedom. In his book Suicide in America, published in 1982, psychiatrist Herbert Hendin, M.D., says: "Partly as a response to the failure of suicide prevention, partly in reaction to commitment abuses, and perhaps mainly in the spirit of accepting anything that does not physically harm anyone else, we see suicide increasingly advocated as a fundamental human right. Many such advocates deplore all attempts to prevent suicide as an interference with that right. It is a position succinctly expressed by Nietzsche when he wrote, `There is a certain right by which we may deprive a man of life, but none by which we may deprive him of death.' Taken from its social and psychological context, suicide is regarded by some purely as an issue of personal freedom" (W. W. Norton & Co., p. 209). In his book The Death of Psychiatry, published in 1974, psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey, M.D., said this: "It should not be possible to confine people against their wills in mental `hospitals.' ... This implies that people have the right to kill themselves if they wish. I believe this is so" (Chilton Book Co., p. 180). In 1968 in his book Why Suicide?, Dr. Eustace Chesser, a psychologist, asserted: "The right to choose one's time and manner of death seems to me unassailable. ... In my opinion the right to die is the last and greatest human freedom" (Arrow Books, London, pp. 123 & 125). In On Suicide, published in 1851, Arthur Schopenhauer said: "There is nothing in the world to which every man has a more unassailable title than to his own life and person" (H. L. Mencken, A New Dictionary of Quotations, Knopf, 1942, p. 1161). In a books-on-tape audiocassette version of their book Life 101, published in 1990, John-Roger and Peter McWilliams tell us: "The consistency of descriptions from a broad range of individuals points to the possibility that death might not be so bad. ... Suicide is always an option. It is sometimes what makes life bearable. Knowing we don't absolutely have to be here can make being here a little easier." Suzy Szasz, a victim of Systemic Lupus Erythematosus, confirms this view in her book Living With It: Why You Don't Have To Be Healthy To Be Happy after an acute flare-up of her disease during which she contemplated suicide: "As many an ancient philosopher has noted, I found the very freedom to commit suicide liberating" (Prometheus Books, 1991, p. 226). In ancient times (circa 485-425 B.C.), Herodotus wrote: "When life is so burdensome death has become for man a sought after refuge." In his book The Untamed Tongue, published in 1990, psychiatrist Thomas Szasz asserts: "Suicide is a fundamental human right. ...society does not have the moral right to interfere, by force, with a person's decision to commit this act" (Open Court Publishing Co., p. 250-251).

To these statements of support for the right to commit suicide, I will add my own: In a truly free society, you own your life, and your only obligation is to respect the rights of others. I believe everyone is entitled to be treated as the sole owner of himself or herself and of his or her own life. Accordingly, I think a person who commits suicide is well within his or her rights in doing so provided he or she does so privately and without jeopardizing the physical safety of others. Family members, police officers, judges, and "therapists" who interfere with a person's decision to end his or her own life are violating that person's human rights. The often expressed view that the possibility of suicide justifies psychiatric treatment even if it must be imposed against the will of the potentially suicidal person is wrong. Provided the person in question is not violating the rights of others, that person's autonomy is of more value than enforcement of what other people consider rational or of what other people think is in a person's best interests. In a free society where self-ownership is recognized, "dangerousness to oneself" is irrelevant. In the words of the title of a movie starring Richard Dreyfuss: "Whose Life Is It, Anyway?" The greatest human right is the right of self-ownership, one aspect of which is the right to life, but another aspect of which is the right to end one's own life. Whether or not a person supports the right to commit suicide is a litmus test of whether or not that person truly believes in self-ownership and the individual freedom that comes with it, the individual freedom that many of us have been taught is the reason-for-being of American democracy.....

Another reason some people believe it is ethical to interfere with a person's right to think about or commit suicide is belief in mental illness. But a so-called diagnosis of "mental illness" is a value judgment about a person's thinking or behavior, not a diagnosis of bona-fide brain disease. So-called mental illness does not deprive people of free will, but on the contrary is an expression of free will (which reaps the disapproval of others). Those who say mental illness destroys "meaningful" free will or who call the beliefs of others irrational (and therefore necessarily caused by mental illness) are accepting the idea of mental illness as brain disease without adequate evidence or are refusing to accept the beliefs of others only because they differ from their own.

Sometimes people oppose the right to commit suicide because of belief in a sort of entirely non-biological mental illness. The error of this way of thinking is that without a biological abnormality the only possible defining characteristic of mental illness is disapproval of some aspect of a person's mentality or thinking. But in a free society, it shouldn't matter if the thinking of a person meets with the disapproval of others, provided the person's actions do not violate the rights of others.

Furthermore, there isn't any good evidence that mental illness by any generally accepted definition is usually involved in a person's decision to commit suicide. In her book about teenage suicide, Marion Crook, B.Sc.N., says "teens considering suicide are not necessarily mentally disturbed. In fact, they are rarely mentally disturbed" (Every Parent's Guide To Understanding Teenagers & Suicide, Int'l Self-Counsel Press Ltd., Vancouver, 1988, p. 10). Psychologist Paul G. Quinnett, Ph.D., makes this observation in his book Suicide: The Forever Decision: "As we have already discussed, however, you do not have to be mentally ill to take your own life. In fact, most people who do commit suicide are not legally `insane.'.....As I have said, I do not believe you have to be mentally ill to think about suicide" (pp. 11-12). Dr. Quinnett's statement is a clear admission that allegations of mental illness to justify incarcerating suicidal people often are deliberate dishonesty, even by the definition of mental illness that exists in the minds of the professionals who make the allegations of mental illness. They make these allegations of mental illness even though they know they are false because involuntary psychiatric commitment laws require a finding of "mental illness" before involuntary commitment may take place. Making deliberately false accusations of "mental illness" under oath in a court of law to satisfy commitment laws for the purpose of discouraging suicidal thinking or preventing suicide is a way to avoid coming to terms with the fact that incarcerating people only because they happen to think their lives are not worth living or because they have attempted to end their own lives is a form of authoritarianism and despotism. In the case of people who have only thought about (not attempted) suicide, it is imprisonment for mere thought-crime similar to that illustrated by George Orwell in his novel 1984.

Even people who oppose the right to commit suicide because of their belief in mental illness sometimes can be made to understand the erroneousness of their biological theorizing or their belief in some kind of non-biological mental illness by asking them if they would see any point in living if they were suffering from a terminal disease involving excruciating, unrelievable physical pain or were completely paralyzed from the neck down with no chance of recovery. Once people admit there are any circumstances in which they would choose death, they often see suicide is the result of a person's personal judgment about his or her circumstances in life rather than a biological malfunction of the brain or some conception of non-biological mental illness.

.....the reasoning of judicial opinions upholding the right to die emphasize personal autonomy and self-determination as the basis for the decision and therefore support my opinion that each person is the sole owner of himself or herself, of his or her own body, and of his or her own life. They support my opinion that the right to commit suicide is a civil right.

If you are a legislator who supports the right of self-ownership you should introduce legislation to delete references to "dangerousness to oneself" in your state's psychiatric commitment laws. If you are a judge deciding questions of constitutional law, you should strike down as unconstitutional laws that imprison ("hospitalize") people only for supposed dangerousness or harm to oneself. Whoever you are, you should respect the autonomy of all of your fellow men and women whose conduct does not unlawfully harm others. (End excerpts)

Do you think setting yourself on fire is an everyday act done by people who are in a rational and sane state of mind?

As stated above, I share the views of many well-known personalities that an individual does not have to be mentally ill to take his own life. Like those famous personalities, I understand the plight of a suicidal person who is making his last stand in life.

However, I abhor anybody turning himself into a living torch. Due to the power of the Internet, self-immolation has unfortunately become a global fad after a 26-year-old unemployed Tunisian man successfully used it to ignite the Arab Spring. The horrible practice has attracted many copycats around the world to advance their cause, whether personal, religious or political in nature.

 

[reedak]

I note you seem desperate to politicise his action......

You seem to be getting so desperate now that you start calling me "desperate". Rather than politicising his action, I highlight the incident to the Anglophiles in Hong Kong that their former colonial master is no longer what it was.

.......but this man also made threats against employment centre staff before he went outside and set fire to himself. Do you also think it's OK to make threats against people who have a difficult job to do?

Of course, not OK. Any threat, whether to kill oneself or harm others, is unacceptable. It brings to mind the words of Lawrence Stevens in his article 'SUICIDE: A Civil Right': " I think a person who commits suicide is well within his or her rights in doing so provided he or she does so privately and without jeopardizing the physical safety of others."

 

[reedak]

You seem unable to grasp the concept of hopelessness.

Most likely, our friend has never got into a hopeless, chaotic situation before till infinite chaos strike one fine day.

Define normal. I am willing to wager my meager life savings that most people give themselves too much credit on how well they think they would handle survival situations. Particularly those where they have the distinct disadvantage.

Well said.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Sounds like the front porches of UK job centers need more extinguishers than red carpets

Luckily, most of the unemployed are mentally stable, so this was a unique event.
He was so busy threatening the staff before tying himself to the railings outside, then setting himself on fire, that the police had arrived with fire extinguishers and put him out, saving his life.

 

[SmileyFaze]

Socialism can have that affect on any society.

Once it becomes engrained, those who are benefiting from 'Other Peoples Money' seem to feel entitled to funds they did nothing to earn.

The mere mention of the word austerity causes riots & extreme measures because those receiving 'their entitlements' can't envision life without leaching the earnings of others.

Only cowards commit suicide, & only idiots fail in their misbegotten cowardly endeavors.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

You seem unable to grasp the concept of hopelessness.

Please define it for me then, be very careful in your wording that you do not at the same time describe what can be called "mental disorder" or "mental instability" as you would simply be making my case for me.

I believe nobody would want to end his own life unless he is forced into a desperate situation --snip-- (End excerpts)

So, why do you think the Birmingham police have asked for a "mental health assessment" on the man? Why also do you think "senior Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) managers had sent a note to all staff warning that they take the "utmost care and sensitivity" when dealing with claimants, as a result of "difficult changes which some of our more vulnerable customers may take some time to accept and adjust to"" link

-- Of course, not OK. Any threat, whether to kill oneself or harm others, is unacceptable --

Now we're getting somewhere.

And is making very serious threats to complete innocents doing their daily job something that could be described as the actions of a rational mind or an irrational mind? Again, let's leave Hong Kong and colonialism out of this.

 

[reedak]

Now we're getting somewhere......

On the contrary, we're getting nowhere.

You continue to create infinite chaos by floundering and evading the following important question even after I brought to your attention the views of Herodotus, Lawrence Stevens and other well-known personalities including psychiatrists, psychologists, doctors, authors, professors, etc.

1. Answer this important question once and for all. Do you agree that not all people who commit suicide are insane?

2. In addition, if you were one of the many unemployed people in Britain, can you tell us how you keep yourself alive before you die of starvation in the end.

So, why do you think the Birmingham police have asked for a "mental health assessment" on the man? Why also do you think "senior Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) managers had sent a note to all staff warning that they take the "utmost care and sensitivity" when dealing with claimants, as a result of "difficult changes which some of our more vulnerable customers may take some time to accept and adjust to"" link......

I don't have the answers to your questions. You seem to have some connections to the DWP, please enlighten us with whatever you know.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

On the contrary, we're getting nowhere.

--snip--

I don't have the answers to your questions. You seem to have some connections to the DWP, please enlighten us with whatever you know.

In a nutshell, you don't know anything about the specifics of the case in point i.e. the mentally unstable man who went into a job centre, made threats to staff because his benefits had been cut and he wrongly / incorrectly found able to work and then went outside and set fire to himself.

You wish to make a wider point about all other self immolation but none of what you have presented sheds any light that contradicts the assertions made about this specific case; in short - if you wish to discuss self immolation in general you would be better to have made a specific thread about it, probably on the philosophy forum or even the general political discussion but your politicising attempts have nothing to do with what happened in Selly Oak.

 

[reedak]

In a nutshell, you don't know anything about the specifics of the case in point i.e. the mentally unstable man who went into a job centre, made threats to staff because his benefits had been cut and he wrongly / incorrectly found able to work and then went outside and set fire to himself.

Just like the newspaper reports. Nothing new to the readers or any desperate unemployed job seeker who hopes to get some advice or help from the thread.

You wish to make a wider point about all other self immolation but none of what you have presented sheds any light that contradicts the assertions made about this specific case; in short - if you wish to discuss self immolation in general you would be better to have made a specific thread about it, probably on the philosophy forum or even the general political discussion but your politicising attempts have nothing to do with what happened in Selly Oak.

You are still evading my questions. You are going nowhere but going round and round in a circle, creating infinite chaos with plenty of useless words.

 

[Alyssa]

Please define it for me then, be very careful in your wording that you do not at the same time describe what can be called "mental disorder" or "mental instability" as you would simply be making my case for me.

Define hopeless? Look it up yourself. Or perchance, you may have the experience yourself at some point in the future as irony would have it. I just love seeing the self righteous trip and fall over their own arrogance and self assuredness.