Breastfeeding in Public

[Gina]

I haven't seen anything from you or anyone else that refutes the statement I made that babies can be bottle fed. They can. I didn't make any posts about why a woman would or wouldn't want to bottle feed her baby when you posted "Ikari is right" to me, as if I had posted anything wrong.

There is no reason to refute that statement. We placed a condition on why a mother wouldn't want to. But I clearly acknowledged that babies can be bottle fed, in the post you quoted:

Yes, every baby can be bottle fed,

A woman not wanting to bottle feed a baby isn't the same thing as "she has no choice". She does. She made it.

So that's the choice you are speaking of? She made the choice to nurse? Because that's not what you said:

Not sure what age would have to do with it. As for the rest, the mother deciding not to have milk available on hand means that's her choice and has nothing to do with babies needing to be breastfed. :shrug:

A nursing mother has milk available, on hand.

 

[tres borrachos]

There is no reason to refute that statement. We placed a condition on why a mother wouldn't want to. But I clearly acknowledged that babies can be bottle fed, in the post you quoted:


So that's the choice you are speaking of? She made the choice to nurse? Because that's not what you said:



A nursing mother has milk available, on hand.

I think "the mother deciding not to have milk available on hand" is pretty self explanatory, Gina. What don't you understand in that comment? If a breast feeding mother chooses to take her baby out to a restaurant and doesn't have a bottle with her, she can't use the "I am surprised my baby wants to eat!" excuse that Ikari was using. I didn't say her choice was right, wrong or indifferent. I said it was her choice to not have an alternative. It is her choice.

 

[Gina]

I think "the mother deciding not to have milk available on hand" is pretty self explanatory, Gina. What don't you understand in that comment? If a breast feeding mother chooses to take her baby out to a restaurant and doesn't have a bottle with her, she can't use the "I am surprised my baby wants to eat!" excuse that Ikari was using. I didn't say her choice was right, wrong or indifferent. I said it was her choice to not have an alternative. It is her choice.

No, it's not self-explanatory, though now it seems you have added a context to it, going out to a restaurant. For a nursing mother, this is where Ikari's comment and my own have resonance. If the baby is of an age where bottle feeding will cause nipple confusion, then having a bottle on hand is not part of that equation. She'll need to breast feed and in that circumstance, a woman can just have breast fed before going out and then get surprised because babies are on their own schedules. Bottle feeding is not an option during the period a baby can get nipple confusion which could lead, ultimately, to refusing the breast.

In reference to bottle only feeding, a mother cannot use that excuse so readily. A breast feeding mother will rely on herself to solve unexpected needs and there should be no issue with that. Even if the baby is beyond nipple confusion. Breast feeding only, is a valid choice. As is bottle feeding only.

There are also loads of instances in which a breast feeding mother, or bottle feeding mother for that matter, can be out in public and be caught without a bottle. Running out for errands with a freshly fed baby and then having the errand take too long due to unforeseen problems seems the most obvious.

So it's good then that nursing mothers have milk on hand so they can feed their hungry babies no matter the lack of a bottle, water and formula, or saved expressed milk.

 

[tres borrachos]

No, it's not self-explanatory, though now it seems you have added a context to it, going out to a restaurant. For a nursing mother, this is where Ikari's comment and my own have resonance. If the baby is of an age where bottle feeding will cause nipple confusion, then having a bottle on hand is not part of that equation. She'll need to breast feed and in that circumstance, a woman can just have breast fed before going out and then get surprised because babies are on their own schedules. Bottle feeding is not an option during the period a baby can get nipple confusion which could lead, ultimately, to refusing the breast.

In reference to bottle only feeding, a mother cannot use that excuse so readily. A breast feeding mother will rely on herself to solve unexpected needs and there should be no issue with that. Even if the baby is beyond nipple confusion. Breast feeding only, is a valid choice. As is bottle feeding only.

There are also loads of instances in which a breast feeding mother, or bottle feeding mother for that matter, can be out in public and be caught without a bottle. Running out for errands with a freshly fed baby and then having the errand take too long due to unforeseen problems seems the most obvious.

So it's good then that nursing mothers have milk on hand so they can feed their hungry babies no matter the lack of a bottle, water and formula, or saved expressed milk.

Considering this thread is about breastfeeding in a restaurant I did not realize I needed to keep restating that.

And while I appreciate the lesson here in breast and bottle feeding and all of that (even though I had it during all of my pregnancies), my point was very simple and these posts have nothing to do with what I said. So let me try it again (and please remember, we are talking about a restaurant):

A mother not having an alternative method of feeding her baby is her choice. It isn't an "all or nothing". And people should not be using weak and ineffective excuses to make the point that is pointedly obvious. If it's legal to nurse your baby in a public restaurant, then it's legal and do it as your right. If you're not comfortable with strangers seeing your breasts while you're eating your meal, then find somewhere else to nurse. If you're not comfortable with seeing a woman's breast while you're eating your meal, avert your eyes.

Going to a restaurant isn't running an errand. If a woman wants people to see her nurse her baby, that's her choice and she's most entitled to it. But a choice it is. It isn't her only option and it's a lie to pretend otherwise.

 

[nota bene]

Earlier in the thread there was discussion of planning. You learn very quickly not to be caught short. Hence the huge and seemingly bottomless diaper bags.

I realize that breastfeeding is natural, but I'm going to use a quaint term here and refer to "modesty." I would never have been comfortable EVER with just whipping out a boob in front of others, and I do mean in "mixed company" or in public. That's what shawls and etc. are for. I'm not a prude, but I do think that there is a time and a place and that even if you are perfectly comfortable exposing yourself in public, other people may not be.

As an aside, I'm finding fascinating the strong opinions of the men on this thread, particularly the ones who aren't yet themselves fathers.

 

[year2late]

I see no reason why women should be legally obliged to be hidden while feeding their babies.

That being said, is it really that difficult to be discreet? Nursing bras are helpful and I would cover up with the babies own blanket. Really not rocket science. Kid gets fed the freshest most nutritious meal, mom relieves the pressure build up (Ouch) and the less enlightened can avoid looking at the apparently disturbing site.

 

[Gina]

Considering this thread is about breastfeeding in a restaurant I did not realize I needed to keep restating that.

And while I appreciate the lesson here in breast and bottle feeding and all of that (even though I had it during all of my pregnancies), my point was very simple and these posts have nothing to do with what I said. So let me try it again (and please remember, we are talking about a restaurant):

A mother not having an alternative method of feeding her baby is her choice. It isn't an "all or nothing". And people should not be using weak and ineffective excuses to make the point that is pointedly obvious. If it's legal to nurse your baby in a public restaurant, then it's legal and do it as your right. If you're not comfortable with strangers seeing your breasts while you're eating your meal, then find somewhere else to nurse. If you're not comfortable with seeing a woman's breast while you're eating your meal, avert your eyes.

Going to a restaurant isn't running an errand. If a woman wants people to see her nurse her baby, that's her choice and she's most entitled to it. But a choice it is. It isn't her only option and it's a lie to pretend otherwise.

You are right, but in the posts I have quoted, you seemed to have broadened the circumstances. As in there is never a reason to be surprised. That is what I was discussing, the idea of being surprised in a broad context.

And so we agree, "If you're not comfortable with seeing a woman's breast while you're eating your meal, avert your eyes".

Yes, it's her choice, she wants to breast feed her baby and if it takes place in public, it is possibility others will see, but not that is not the fundamental choice that is made, for others to watch. If she doesn't care that it happens, she shouldn't be shamed.

 

[Gina]

I see no reason why women should be legally obliged to be hidden while feeding their babies.

That being said, is it really that difficult to be discreet? Nursing bras are helpful and I would cover up with the babies own blanket. Really not rocket science. Kid gets fed the freshest most nutritious meal, mom relieves the pressure build up (Ouch) and the less enlightened can avoid looking at the apparently disturbing site.

I'm a modest person myself and covered up too. But I can't shame others for not wanting to and please understand that I'm not implying you are shaming them. You did include the bolded text, so that's obvious you are not.

 

[Montecresto]

If somebody is made uncomfortable by basic mammalian functioning, the likes upon which the very life of the species has always been dependent, then perhaps the "right" to be such a prude should take a back seat to the right to nurse.

If babies are so unnerving to anybody, they can always avert their eyes.

I've seen lots of nursing mothers in public, they're always covered with a nursing blanket or other. Why can't we have both, nursing mothers in public and modesty. Why is it either or?

 

[Ikari]

A mother not having an alternative method of feeding her baby is her choice.

It may be, or she may have had to make an emergency run somewhere, or miscalculated the time to do something, or is in the early parts of infancy where nipple confusion can be a problem so doesn't yet use a bottle. None of this means that a woman shouldn't be allowed to nurse in public, or should be forced to cover up, or any of the anti-breastfeeding trends that have been taking off as of late.

 

[Ikari]

I've seen lots of nursing mothers in public, they're always covered with a nursing blanket or other. Why can't we have both, nursing mothers in public and modesty. Why is it either or?

For the most part, you'll get that. But some babies don't like to be covered when eating and a woman may have other reasons to not cover, so it's not going to be 100%

 

[EMNofSeattle]

First off, I have eaten at this restaurant many times, it is within my old stomping grounds when I went to school. I even think I might know the person, I went to school with a woman of that name.... ok just checked the picture at the link, not who i was thinking of. still this is a case that I'm looking at, I live about 12 miles from the restuarant in question.

clearly this was a misunderstanding that has blown up to huge proportions. the manager in question didn't know the specifics of the law, after being informed they backed off and all was well. until the young mother wanted to make a public event. which went smoothly because no one really cares about this kind of thing.

I am worried for this woman's kid, he's going to have zero social skills and grow up thinking it's ok to test limits and treat any minor trespass as a payday through the civil court system.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Because your argument was that we're talking about the rights of citizens.

Bearing arms is a right.

And you were saying that people who are exercising their rights shouldn't "be inconvenienced in a public place to satisfy the whims of another person".

So by your own logic, if I want to exercise my legal right to carry a firearm in a public place your whims shouldn't really be a factor in whether or not I'm able to do so.

So apparently you're not really willing to put your money where your mouth is.

If you think a certain right is acceptable, then we should all just have to accept a public display of that right.

But if you think a certain right is unacceptable then you feel you should get your way in that respect too.

the thing is, I've been asked to cover up an openly carried firearm at this very restaurant in the story, apparently i was supposed to sue them. instead I just said ok and put my jacket over the gun (I was just coming down from the state forest after a 10 hour hike on my way home)

 

[molten_dragon]

When the manager, Bianca, did so, Olsen told her it was her legal right to breastfeed in public.
Once Olsen informed Bianca she was within her legal rights and refused to cover up, the manager acknowledged she was right and walked away. But Olsen was still upset.

So let me get this straight. She gets asked politely to cover up. She explains that she doesn't want to, and the law is on her side, and the manager says "Okay, you're right", walks off, and doesn't make a big deal of it. Up to this point, everyone has behaved perfectly reasonably.

But then this lady gets pissed off enough that she asked for a refund and is considering legal action? What a bitch.

 

[Deuce]

Why people got a problem with titties?

 

[joG]

Why people got a problem with titties?

No problem at all. But do you think suckling it up at the next table at Claridge's is necessary?

 

[Deuce]

No problem at all. But do you think suckling it up at the next table at Claridge's is necessary?

This is just a roundabout way of saying you got a problem with titties.

 

[joG]

This is just a roundabout way of saying you got a problem with titties.

And sex at the next table too. If you like suckling in public that is fine. But I don't think I want to go to a restaurant you can have your dominant friend spit in your face at the next table either.

On the other hand I do have breakfast at a place, where it is fine to breastfeed. But it is not the Tour d'Argent.

 

[Divergent]

Here's an article about a woman who was breastfeeding in a restaurant. The manager asked her to cover-up but she refused, asserting her right under Washington law to breastfeed in public.



Sydney Olsen was right. In Washington, breastfeeding is a civil right and women are free to feed their babies whenever and wherever the choose. Certainly, that makes the nursing women happy but what about all the other citizens who are made uncomfortable by the act. Don't they have any rights?

Just another Religious law.

If a weak abstinent/and/or/married/male see's a boobie he might think about cheating and that is against the laws of the bible. Better make laws against boobies.

 

[Divergent]

No problem at all. But do you think suckling it up at the next table at Claridge's is necessary?

The Bible says, "You will feel shame about your nudity after today". When they ate the apple.

If you don't feel shame about nudity, does that make you?

A female boob us just like a male boob but sometimes bigger. The only reason it's made into a big deal is because it's restricted. And like diamonds, people want what is limited to them instead of being happy with what they already have.

 

[joG]

The Bible says, "You will feel shame about your nudity after today". When they ate the apple.

If you don't feel shame about nudity, does that make you?

A female boob us just like a male boob but sometimes bigger. The only reason it's made into a big deal is because it's restricted. And like diamonds, people want what is limited to them instead of being happy with what they already have.

People are funny, as the man would say.

 

[Divergent]

People are funny, as the man would say.

Boobs are scary and need to be hidden;

As "THE MAN" would say.

 

[Joe Steel]

Forced how? By happening on something?

Does this mean I say say that fat people are forced on me because I have to look at them?

Body weight doesn't violate social norms. Exposing certain body parts does.

 

[Joe Steel]

Satisfy? How?

It allows her to make an issue of doing what she wants to do regardless of what others think.

 

[tres borrachos]

So let me get this straight. She gets asked politely to cover up. She explains that she doesn't want to, and the law is on her side, and the manager says "Okay, you're right", walks off, and doesn't make a big deal of it. Up to this point, everyone has behaved perfectly reasonably.

But then this lady gets pissed off enough that she asked for a refund and is considering legal action? What a bitch.

Yup, interesting, isn't it? She's a shrew.