BREAKING : "russia"-Ukraine war: Moscow says first phase of invasion complete; seventh "russian" general reported killed – live

[Litwin]

"We're very lucky that they're so f*cking stupid." - A Ukrainian Soldier, 2022

 

[Litwin]

A couple of weeks ago, Putin might have had a window in which he could have declared victory, withdrawn his forces from Ukraine, and kept control of the Donbas and Crimea. But with Ukraine not only surviving but now driving Russia back in some cases, Zelensky probably no longer feels it has to compromise on anything beyond remaining a neutral country.

100% agree with you , too late for Moscow ´s ulus

 

[multivita-man]

100% agree with you , too late for Moscow ´s ulus

Putin's in a dangerous position. As I put it in another thread, a dictator can put down a grassroots revolt, and he can put down a revolt of the elites, but if the elites and grassroots unite against him...night night, Putin.

 

[Litwin]

Putin's in a dangerous position. As I put it in another thread, a dictator can put down a grassroots revolt, and he can put down a revolt of the elites, but if the elites and grassroots unite against him...night night, Putin.

dont forget that many middle age man are losing their jobs , and can´t find the new one. specially small cities in Muscovy heart land

 

[Litwin]

Putin's in a dangerous position. As I put it in another thread, a dictator can put down a grassroots revolt, and he can put down a revolt of the elites, but if the elites and grassroots unite against him...night night, Putin.

ps , great video on this subject

 

[ChickenTendies]

That's not necessarily true. You would also want to seige kyiv if you want to draw away their forces. For russia, their most elite units have always been in southeast the entire time. Kyiv has been a battle of cannon fodder on both sides.

Then why would they make such a risky airborne operation if it was not to try to blitz Kyiv? And Russia had 2 CAA's and elements of a third in the north at the beginning

Mariupol is a major city.

But that was not their primary objective

Is annexing the donbass really a limited goal? I don't think so. If I wanted to annex british columbia, i would expect to fight all of canada. Putin just escalated it quickly, but he didn't really do anything to annex the entire country.

I mean, if you think opening multiple fronts and significantly pushing on all of them, especially the south toward Dnipro, Odessa, and Mariupol was not trying to do anything to annex the country you are mistaken. I do believe taking the Donbass is a limited war goal as compared to trying to capitulate the country and make grand, sweeping advances.

That being said, i expect any deal to require Ukraine to stay of nato/EU.

Ofc

 

[Aurora]

Whatever Putin gets out of this, they will have paid a high price in men and material. Not to mention shortages at home and becoming the armpit of the world.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Then why would they make such a risky airborne operation if it was not to try to blitz Kyiv?

I didn't say they didn't WANT kyiv. They do. Taking kyiv would put the russians in the ideal position for negotiations. Hence why they are trying to take it, and establish air superiority throughout the country from the beginning.

And Russia had 2 CAA's and elements of a third in the north at the beginning

But that was not their primary objective

I mean, if you think opening multiple fronts and significantly pushing on all of them, especially the south toward Dnipro, Odessa, and Mariupol was not trying to do anything to annex the country you are mistaken. I do believe taking the Donbass is a limited war goal as compared to trying to capitulate the country and make grand, sweeping advances.

Ofc

Again, if russia's main goal was taking kyiv, much more of their regular elite units would have been concentrated there. I said from the beginning of this invasion, that putin was only interested in the donbass, and initially, i was confused that he would do a full scale attack on all parts of ukraine. However, I see the wisdom in him doing so.......it's a brutal tactic, and i'm not sure it 'worked'. But it seems mariupol has already fallen, or on the very verge of falling. The azov battallian and extremist groups there have all but been destroyed, the south is entirely his.

Where kyiv is going to be in play here, is whether or not russia can force ukraine to remain neutral. This is I am much more skeptical of, even if Putin had taken kyiv. I pointed this out, also, from the very beginning, there was no way a country of 144 million was going to be able to hold a country of 45 million pissed off ukrainians permanently, without expenses that russia could never have afforded even in an booming economy. The idea that Putin was going to suddenly sweep in and take the entire country....just wasn't feasible. Ukraine would have become his afghanistan on steroids.

 

[multivita-man]

dont forget that many middle age man are losing their jobs , and can´t find the new one. specially small cities in Muscovy heart land

IIRC, the Arab spring began in no small part b/c there were lots of unemployed men in their 20s and 30s - well, that and spiraling inflation, high food and fuel prices. That, to me, is something that probably keeps every dictator awake at night: young men who have no income and therefore no shot at having sex and having a family. Tens of thousands of angry incels camped outside of a presidential palace or legislative building. That's what Putin had better avoid.

 

[jpn]

"We're very lucky that they're so f*cking stupid." - A Ukrainian Soldier, 2022

And corrupt:



According to the Intel. Dept. of Ukraine MoD, only 1 out of 10 battle tanks in the storages of the 4th Russian tank division is battle-ready.

Because of this, a commander of the 13th regiment of the 4th Rus. tank division committed suicide.

 

[multivita-man]

Good God - that explains why the vehicles broke down. A lot of the equipment that crossed into Ukraine is going to remain in Ukraine - forever.

 

[slavablueberryjam]

A nice way to admit that they lost the war.

 

[ChickenTendies]

I didn't say they didn't WANT kyiv. They do. Taking kyiv would put the russians in the ideal position for negotiations. Hence why they are trying to take it, and establish air superiority throughout the country from the beginning.

They wanted to take Kyiv quickly not to have the upper hand in negotiations, such a large force amassed at the border was not just to pressure Ukraine to the negotiating table, but to secure Putin's legacy as a conqueror and the rejuvenator of the Russian empire through total annexation and imposition of a puppet government.

Again, if russia's main goal was taking kyiv, much more of their regular elite units would have been concentrated there. I said from the beginning of this invasion, that putin was only interested in the donbass, and initially, i was confused that he would do a full scale attack on all parts of ukraine. However, I see the wisdom in him doing so.......it's a brutal tactic, and i'm not sure it 'worked'. But it seems mariupol has already fallen, or on the very verge of falling. The azov battallian and extremist groups there have all but been destroyed, the south is entirely his.

There were elite units, Spetznaz, VDV, Chechens, PMCs, along with the regular army. Putin was never looking to just take the Donbass, such an invasion was meant as a grand sweeping operation, capitulating Ukraine and dazzling Putin with glory.

Where kyiv is going to be in play here, is whether or not russia can force ukraine to remain neutral. This is I am much more skeptical of, even if Putin had taken kyiv. I pointed this out, also, from the very beginning, there was no way a country of 144 million was going to be able to hold a country of 45 million pissed off ukrainians permanently, without expenses that russia could never have afforded even in an booming economy. The idea that Putin was going to suddenly sweep in and take the entire country....just wasn't feasible. Ukraine would have become his afghanistan on steroids.

I think at this point we're at a crossroads. Russia needs to quickly finish the Mariupol siege and reinforce the other fronts because Ukraine is apparently pushing closer to Kherson and if they retake it not only would that be bad PR, but Ukraine would get a morale boost and a tactical victory. Gradual gains in the Donbass are all well and good, but they need to urgently pull out troops from areas like around Kyiv and Kharkiv where no progress is being made and an assault is simply not feasible, and relocate them to other theaters.

 

[poweRob]

Crying proud boy went over to play live action war and realized it was too real for him , tucked tail and ran.

 

[Chomsky]

A couple of weeks ago, Putin might have had a window in which he could have declared victory, withdrawn his forces from Ukraine, and kept control of the Donbas and Crimea. But with Ukraine not only surviving but now driving Russia back in some cases, Zelensky probably no longer feels it has to compromise on anything beyond remaining a neutral country.

I think the bolded is important to remember. The war is fluid, with varying ebbs & tides in different regions. There's nothing that says Putin won't make progress or surge in different regions, nor is there anything that says Putin might not introduce other weapons like chemical weapons.

But I do very much agree if we can keep the Ukrainians adequately supplied, the tide very much does seem to be in their favor in general terms.

 

[DarkWizard12]

They wanted to take Kyiv quickly not to have the upper hand in negotiations, such a large force amassed at the border was not just to pressure Ukraine to the negotiating table, but to secure Putin's legacy as a conqueror and the rejuvenator of the Russian empire through total annexation and imposition of a puppet government.

so putin started this entire war, risking a defeat, just because he cared about having the reputation of being a conqueror?

We're talking about the president of russia here, not a cheap democrat activist.

There were elite units, Spetznaz, VDV, Chechens, PMCs, along with the regular army. Putin was never looking to just take the Donbass, such an invasion was meant as a grand sweeping operation, capitulating Ukraine and dazzling Putin with glory.

their forces quickly seiged mariupol since this war begin and put most of their resources there. I'm sorry you don't like that fact.

I think at this point we're at a crossroads. Russia needs to quickly finish the Mariupol siege and reinforce the other fronts because Ukraine is apparently pushing closer to Kherson and if they retake it not only would that be bad PR, but Ukraine would get a morale boost and a tactical victory. Gradual gains in the Donbass are all well and good, but they need to urgently pull out troops from areas like around Kyiv and Kharkiv where no progress is being made and an assault is simply not feasible, and relocate them to other theaters.

Right well, I don't think morale is much of a factor on the ukrainian side at this point. They don't view the russians as an occupying force of which they evaluate and choose freely which side they want to take, but an invading force that cares little for their opinion of russia. Every abandoned tank raises their morale, and every dead ukrainian cements their anger toward the russian force. Russian forces simply can't worry about ukrainian morale, they should focus on establishing military victories through any means they have. 1 ukrainian soldier may have all the morale in the world, if the other 99 are dead, it means nothing.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Crying proud boy went over to play live action war and realized it was too real for him , tucked tail and ran.

I'm guessing you volunteered and killed 100 russian soldiers at this point?

 

[poweRob]

And corrupt:



According to the Intel. Dept. of Ukraine MoD, only 1 out of 10 battle tanks in the storages of the 4th Russian tank division is battle-ready.

Because of this, a commander of the 13th regiment of the 4th Rus. tank division committed suicide.

Read a write up that the oligarchs in Russia are too afraid to tell Putin that a lot of the money meant for the military never made it to the military. And that's what paid for much of all their yachts and mansions and Italian villas.

Live version of why being surrounded by yes men will blow up in your face.

 

[ChickenTendies]

so putin started this entire war, risking a defeat, just because he cared about having the reputation of being a conqueror?

He cared about his legacy, and the revival of Russia. And a limited war in Donbass would only make Ukraine more amenable to joining NATO, would it not? The Kremlin most certainly understood that Ukraine would never be forced to the negotiating table with a limited war in the Donbass, a shock operation would be needed to toppled the government and prevent NATO expansion, hence the incredibly risky airborne drop and the subsequent ground push.

We're talking about the president of russia here, not a cheap democrat activist.

their forces quickly seiged mariupol since this war begin and put most of their resources there. I'm sorry you don't like that fact.

"Quickly". If they had the same amount of forces there as they did pushing towards Kyiv and Kharkiv, it wouldn't have taken them a literal week to surround it. You dont want to die on this hill.

Right well, I don't think morale is much of a factor on the ukrainian side at this point. They don't view the russians as an occupying force of which they evaluate and choose freely which side they want to take, but an invading force that cares little for their opinion of russia. Every abandoned tank raises their morale, and every dead ukrainian cements their anger toward the russian force. Russian forces simply can't worry about ukrainian morale, they should focus on establishing military victories through any means they have. 1 ukrainian soldier may have all the morale in the world, if the other 99 are dead, it means nothing.

 

[DarkWizard12]

He cared about his legacy, and the revival of Russia.

evidence please.

You dont want to die on this hill.

lol kys

 

[madman]

I'm guessing you volunteered and killed 100 russian soldiers at this point?

what a dumb post

why not just ask him if he did?

 

[ChickenTendies]

evidence please.

Putin has repeatedly stated that the dissolution of the USSR has been the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century (not because he was a communist since he's an anti-Bolshevik) and has invoked the glory of the Russian Empire numerous times as well being a fervent federal Russian nationalist.

Opinion | The Grand Theory Driving Putin to War

The goal, plainly, is empire.

www.nytimes.com

lol kys

Peak discourse

 

[DarkWizard12]

what a dumb post

why not just ask him if he did?

well, he volunteered to go there himself. What did you do?

He's stupid because he bought all the propaganda and thought he was fighting for the good. You still buy the propaganda, and you don't even both your money(or feet) where your mouth is.

You think russia is the biggest danger here? Then go fight them yourself. Ukraine is taking volunteers.

If not, stuff it with the propaganda.

 

[jpn]

their forces quickly seiged mariupol since this war begin and put most of their resources there. I'm sorry you don't like that fact.

Evidence please, for the bolded part.

 

[Litwin]