Breaking News: Biden gets another win and an infrastructure bill.

[SenorXm/Sirius]

he will allow NO Biden victories he has already said.

In 2010 Mitch said the same thing regarding Obama. Millions of Americans were still losing their jobs and homes, but Mitch didn't give a shit.. He was going to block anything Obama tried to do with the economy..

I was a Republican then, for 30+ years. After I saw Mitch say that I took a good hard look at the Republican Party and saw they no longer cared about the Middle class, or the working class... I left the Republican Party and never looked back...

 

[j brown's body]

I have to agree this is premature celebration. It may work but as I discussed in comment #44, I think there is still a lot which can prevent it. I'd give it a 50/50 chance though.

There may be a steep price to pay for stopping this bill.

 

[j brown's body]

Yeah, I think people from both parties (within the public, not necessarily Congress) would like this bipartisan bill, if it passes. But, it gets kind of weird from here so we'll see if it can pass. If all Dems are fully on board with part 2 (the unrelated to infrastructure - reconciliation part) and they vocalize that, McConnell might back away from part 1. I can imagine his hope would be for this part 1 bipartisan piece to be the end of it. I know that's what I think makes sense.
But, if those moderate Dems don't give their promise to pass part 2, then the Bernie gang might back away from part 1, fearing part 2 might never happen.
So, I think it gets a little tricky here. Also, I expect the voting public will be much more agreeable to part 1 - people from both parties. Republicans would hate part 2, thinking of it as massively excessive spending on a Dem wish list. We'd have to see where the biggest group (Independents) land in terms of their preference.
So, I think it's a little tricky from here. I know I'd like part 1 and hate part 2. But, some of the congressional Dems are determined to keep the two parts linked and, for now, the Dems certainly have the most control, albeit very small majorities with little wiggle room.

Needless to say, the Dems will work hard to blend these two parts in voters' minds, the GOP working hard to separate them in voters minds. If both are popular, its a steep hill to climb for the GOP.

 

[Callen]

No matter which way this goes...and lord only knows that...Biden has shown his ability and willingness to bring Republicans in. I think this will play well in 2022 at the Senate level but the House is something else altogether. This is proving to be a much more interesting legislative session compared to the last four years. There is actually stuff to debate and dissect.

 

[element94]

He sees this as an impediment to winning in 2022. He would love to go into that election claiming either that the Dems got nothing done OR the Dems are tyrants ramming through partisan, socialist laws and they must be stopped.

A bi-partisan infrastructure law, after all this time, is a pretty big deal.

It was very good to see, then the vile McConnell popped into my head.

 

[nvflash]

'We have a deal': Biden announces bipartisan infrastructure agreement

The package still faces challenges in Congress, where Democrats and Republicans will need to be convinced.

www.nbcnews.com

we don't know the details just yet. Stay tuned. But kudo's to Joe who stuck with it.

President Joe Biden on Thursday announced a deal on a bipartisan infrastructure package but warned he would not sign it unless it was passed "in tandem" with a separate budget reconciliation bill that invested in social infrastructure and other Democratic priorities.

So he'll only sign the Republican bill if he gets his far left wish list via reconciliation. POPCORN, this could get interesting.

 

[Surrealistik]

'We have a deal': Biden announces bipartisan infrastructure agreement

The package still faces challenges in Congress, where Democrats and Republicans will need to be convinced.

www.nbcnews.com

we don't know the details just yet. Stay tuned. But kudo's to Joe who stuck with it.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves; if the Republican cuts are too severe, and they cannot guarantee reconciliation, it may not even pass Congress, nor should it necessarily.

Overall, the infrastructure negotiations have been the definition of frustrating, and a showcase of the classic spineless Democrat tack of asking for half a loaf and walking away with crumbs after the Republicans shred it, aided by enemies from within like Manchin.

 

[Surrealistik]

I think you're going to lose that bet. Manchin needs a bipartisan agreement to demonstrate that they don't need to eliminate the filibuster in order to accomplish anything, and a successful bipartisan deal serves that purpose. If Republicans take the dive on this one, and I believe they will, they get to keep passing voter suppression laws and district Democrats out of power.

This bill takes all the air out of Team Eliminate Filibuster, even if it doesn't change the fundamental need of passing HR1.

It would certainly be a blow, but not a death blow remotely, given that the filibuster is absolutely going to continue materially cripple Dem legislating. I think more than anything it would stop Manchin from being perennially embarrassed as a naïve fool.

Also, beyond that, Republican obstinance is frankly hard to overestimate.

 

[Cardinal]

It would certainly be a blow, but not a death blow remotely, given that the filibuster is absolutely going to continue materially cripple Dem legislating. I think more than anything it would stop Manchin from being perennially embarrassed as a naïve fool.

Also, beyond that, Republican obstinance is frankly hard to overestimate.

To be clear, the need and importance of eliminating the filibuster doesn't go away, but a bipartisan bill would...and will (assuming the bill passes)...cause Democrats to give up trying to pressure Manchin, seeing as he's already so obstinate even when he doesn't have a coherent argument for keeping the filibuster.

 

[DataPoint]

Besos tax rate is relevant, and those who argue that it is not need a course in logic.

 

[Surrealistik]

To be clear, the need and importance of eliminating the filibuster doesn't go away, but a bipartisan bill would...and will (assuming the bill passes)...cause Democrats to give up trying to pressure Manchin, seeing as he's already so obstinate even when he doesn't have a coherent argument for keeping the filibuster.

That's a very bold claim, regardless of Manchin's reasoning or lackthereof more accurately.

I honestly see no logical basis for assuming the Dem pressure groups piling on Manchin will simply all just pack up and go home to the last in the likely event the GOP continues to stonewall (with Manchin and Sinema's assistance), even assuming the infrastructure bill manages to pass.

 

[BrotherFease]

Here's the details/main points of the deal:

- $973 billion dollars over 5 years or 1.2 trillion over 8 years.
- $109 billion on roads and highways
- $15 billion on electric vehicle infrastructure
- $312 billion in transportation spending.
- $65 billion toward broadband and expenditures on drinking water systems
- $47 billion in resiliency efforts to tackle climate change.
- Paid for by using unused covid19 funds and closing corporate loopholes.

Basically it is the Republican plan, minus raising the gas tax. All of the human infrastructure money has been removed.

Biden extols bipartisan infrastructure deal as a good start

President Joe Biden has announced a bipartisan agreement on a pared-down but still huge infrastructure plan.

apnews.com

 

[Subieguy]

Here's the details/main points of the deal:

- $973 billion dollars over 5 years or 1.2 trillion over 8 years.
- $109 billion on roads and highways
- $15 billion on electric vehicle infrastructure
- $312 billion in transportation spending.
- $65 billion toward broadband and expenditures on drinking water systems
- $47 billion in resiliency efforts to tackle climate change.
- Paid for by using unused covid19 funds and closing corporate loopholes.

Basically it is the Republican plan, minus raising the gas tax. All of the human infrastructure money has been removed.

Biden extols bipartisan infrastructure deal as a good start

President Joe Biden has announced a bipartisan agreement on a pared-down but still huge infrastructure plan.

apnews.com

a nice start but in my opinion we need a lot more than that! But at this point will have to take what we can get.

 

[MaryP]

The Dem bill's infrastructure component was always large than that of the GOP.

The one was too large, the other too small.

And now the porridge is just right! I hope.

 

[MaryP]

Here's the details/main points of the deal:

- $973 billion dollars over 5 years or 1.2 trillion over 8 years.
- $109 billion on roads and highways
- $15 billion on electric vehicle infrastructure
- $312 billion in transportation spending.
- $65 billion toward broadband and expenditures on drinking water systems
- $47 billion in resiliency efforts to tackle climate change.
- Paid for by using unused covid19 funds and closing corporate loopholes.

Basically it is the Republican plan, minus raising the gas tax. All of the human infrastructure money has been removed.

Biden extols bipartisan infrastructure deal as a good start

President Joe Biden has announced a bipartisan agreement on a pared-down but still huge infrastructure plan.

apnews.com

Thx!

 

[lurchadams]

So nice to have a legit deal maker in the WH. Maybe Joe should write a book about making deals.

LOL - I don't think the cultists will understand your humor.

 

[MaryP]

a nice start but in my opinion we need a lot more than that! But at this point will have to take what we can get.

There's always next year! Or, as Scarlett OHara famously said, After all, tomorrow is another day!

 

[BrotherFease]

There's always next year! Or, as Scarlett OHara famously said, After all, tomorrow is another day!

Correct. Biden still wants to pass "human infrastructure", but feels they have to come in a different package. The GOP does not want to spend money on elderly care and educational retraining. Both sides agree on rebuilding and upgrading roads, bridges, waterways, buildings, and moving toward a green economy to fight climate change. Biden requires the legislation to address lead pipes.

 

[MaryP]

Correct. Biden still wants to pass "human infrastructure", but feels they have to come in a different package. The GOP does not want to spend money on elderly care and educational retraining. Both sides agree on rebuilding and upgrading roads, bridges, waterways, buildings, and moving toward a green economy to fight climate change. Biden requires the legislation to address lead pipes.

Hallelujiah!

 

[j brown's body]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves; if the Republican cuts are too severe, and they cannot guarantee reconciliation, it may not even pass Congress, nor should it necessarily.

Overall, the infrastructure negotiations have been the definition of frustrating, and a showcase of the classic spineless Democrat tack of asking for half a loaf and walking away with crumbs after the Republicans shred it, aided by enemies from within like Manchin.

Gotta play the long game - at least at thus point. This is movement. Americans appreciate that. It was done through a bi-partisan process, that hurts McConnell's strategy. This should help the Dems in 2022. We have to hold and add seats if we want more.

 

[Cardinal]

That's a very bold claim, regardless of Manchin's reasoning or lackthereof more accurately.

I honestly see no logical basis for assuming the Dem pressure groups piling on Manchin will simply all just pack up and go home to the last in the likely event the GOP continues to stonewall (with Manchin and Sinema's assistance), even assuming the infrastructure bill manages to pass.

Never underestimate the power of deflating a balloon. Once Arizona went for Biden you could watch in real time the trump campaign’s court efforts instantly go on life support. That’s what will happen here.

Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong but I don’t think I’m going to be.

 

[Surrealistik]

Gotta play the long game - at least at thus point. This is movement. Americans appreciate that. It was done through a bi-partisan process, that hurts McConnell's strategy. This should help the Dems in 2022. We have to hold and add seats if we want more.

First of all, nothing has actually moved; not yet.

Second, this is essentially a full on capitulation to the Republicans.

Third, this continues the precedent of terrible Dem negotiations where they start weak, and only end up weaker.

Like with the ACA, I have little doubt that the 'first step' will also prove to be the last step (at least for anything close to the foreseeable future).

Never underestimate the power of deflating a balloon. Once Arizona went for Biden you could watch in real time the trump campaign’s court efforts instantly go on life support. That’s what will happen here.

Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong but I don’t think I’m going to be.

I mean, I don't think those two things are really comparable.

What primarily motivates the pressure against Manchin is not his failure to score even a modest, singular win (which is indeed laughable and pathetic when he insists on everyone doing things his way), but his insane obstinance to all things Democrat, including things wildly popular in his own damn state, which will only continue; even if the pressure abates temporarily, you can bet your ass it'll be back the moment the stonewalling resumes.

 

[Bullseye]

'We have a deal': Biden announces bipartisan infrastructure agreement

The package still faces challenges in Congress, where Democrats and Republicans will need to be convinced.

www.nbcnews.com

we don't know the details just yet. Stay tuned. But kudo's to Joe who stuck with it.

He wanted $4.9 trillion, got %1.2trill; not tax hikes on businesses and that’s a “WIN”?

 

[Cardinal]

He wanted $4.9 trillion, got %1.2trill; not tax hikes on businesses and that’s a “WIN”?

What infrastructure bill would have passed if Republicans had been in charge?

 

[bave]

There may be a steep price to pay for stopping this bill.

Actually, I think it the inverse of what you are thinking.

The problem is Biden has already threatened to veto this very bill. He is demanding that unless this bill is accompanied with his other spending plans he will veto it. Effectively Biden has tied the success of an infrastructure bill to his wider economic agenda, which he will not get. So this gets right back to the Manchin/Sinema argument. Both have said they will not vote for a major spending package that has no bipartisan support. That means reconciliation is off the table as it stands now. It is also true that every moderate republican senator has said they will not vote to support the remainder of Biden's economic agenda. That means that one of two things happen. First, the dems can apply enough pressure on Sinema and Manchin to force them to break their pledge and allow a reconciliation package in the *trillions* on purely partisan basis. Or, it means that the entire agenda dies together.

It's stupid for Biden. It is all downside risk at this point and he has no chance of advancing the remainder of his agenda for months. Congress is about to hit their break which means they won't get back until the fall. He is burning political capital and time like crazy. Come Thanksgiving all major legislation is dead as re-election becomes the focus.