• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

BREAKING: near the Kerch Strait JUCHI ATTACK Ukrainian territory (vessels ) again (1 step from the

...

  • WAR

    Votes: 2 50.0%

  • NO

    Votes: 3 75.0%
  • Total voters
    4
  • Poll closed .
Litwin said:
NAvy-750x447.jpg

Muscovites are cowards
Click to expand...

You have proof the crew was from Moscow?

Since there is no nation of Muscovy.
 
Last edited:
Tangmo said:
You're inferring what a Putin Fanboy will infer. Trying to transmogrify it into accusations against the West.

The benefit of the small and temporary increase in oil prices went from financier to financier to pay interest on loans and to buy foreign assets where possible. Sanctions are specifically on Putin and his autocrats as you should know but ignore. Autocrats losing money or opportunities is a cost that hits their personal fortunes.

Capital flight this year is where it was in 2014 after having been reduced in the meantime. Sanctions will continue. If the Russian people are being impacted by sanctions they're not showing it. We know your concern is for the people, not for Putin, right? Wrong.

We know the Putin Fanboyz don't want sanctions impacting Putin's behaviors, to make Putin more agreeable to the West. Right? Right. After all, the West is the enemy of Putin and His Fanboyz.
Click to expand...


:lamo

I asked you whether western sanctions have been successful in 'modifying Russia's behaviour'. Those are the terms used by the west to describe their purpose.


You can't even bring yourself to admit reality when it slaps you in the face and you yourself are interpreting Russia's behavior as unacceptable.


You are truly in a world of denial, your own analysis hopelessly muddled by an asinine inability to admit the failings of western policy towards Russia.



PS 'Putin Fanboy' (twice in the post above - well done) repeated ad nauseam is a reflection on your own deep linguistic limitations.
 
Back to Poroshenko's proposed Martial law. Who benefits?


It gives Kiev the power to stop civilian protests and close down / stop media critical of the government, and postpone elections.


Very handy when you have 8% in opinion polls. Who'd have thought Putin would want to gift Poroshenko such an opportunity :roll::roll:
 
RetiredUSN said:
These 4 suspects are probably living in Lewiston Maine these days. :roll:
Click to expand...
probably , maybe, but this daughter lives in USA 100%
lavrov-munich.png

ps
_104481833_ukraine_crimea_russia_v2_624map-nc.png


_104485887_141aee64-13df-457d-8fec-d27ef3e84d1b.jpg


Why is the Sea of Azov a flashpoint?

The shallow Sea of Azov lies east of Crimea, and south of the Ukrainian regions partially seized by pro-Russian separatists.

The two Ukrainian ports on its northern shore - Berdyansk and Mariupol - are key to exporting grain and products such as steel, as well as for importing coal.

President Poroshenko has described the ports as key to Ukraine's economy.

"If they block a vessel with Ukrainian iron and steel products from Mariupol for one day, the cost is thousands of dollars," he told the Washington Post in September.

Iron and steel products from Mariupol make up 25% of Ukraine's export revenue, he added.
Click to expand...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46340283
 
Westphalian said:
:lamo

I asked you whether western sanctions have been successful in 'modifying Russia's behaviour'. Those are the terms used by the west to describe their purpose.


You can't even bring yourself to admit reality when it slaps you in the face and you yourself are interpreting Russia's behavior as unacceptable.


You are truly in a world of denial, your own analysis hopelessly muddled by an asinine inability to admit the failings of western policy towards Russia.



PS 'Putin Fanboy' (twice in the post above - well done) repeated ad nauseam is a reflection on your own deep linguistic limitations.
Click to expand...


I'll cheerfully relate to you what I said already that you either missed or ignored. I refer of course to the Putin Fanboyz.

Putin's been there a long time and things in Russia are only getting worse. Sanctions against the oligarchs do continue and they will continue. Sanctions have always been a long term project. Sanctions will continue to be a long term project until sanctions and other punishments achieve their goal and nothing less.

The oligarchs and now suddenly the Russian people are looking at shaking things up, starting at the top. Precipitate perhaps a new, fresh and clean blanket of snow to cover the landscape. A new leader might be possible who has working relations with Western investors and political leaders, in EU in particular. Get a guy with a new broom who sweeps clean the old dust ups. Changes things. As we've seen, fundamental change in Russia happens overnight and to the surprise of everyone. Yet it's always gradual and it builds, like a snowball being pushed along. That is, when the weather and air pressure look impossible for lightning a bolt strikes.
 
Fledermaus said:
You have proof the crew was from Moscow?

Since there is no nation of Muscovy.
Click to expand...

Muscovite is a [Cold War] pejorative term for Russians (they dislike it). Ukrop is a [Russian] derogatory name for Ukrainians.

Anyone who has spent time in this area knows these things. Why you engage in such triviality is beyond me.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Muscovite is a [Cold War] pejorative term for Russians (they dislike it). Ukrop is a [Russian] derogatory name for Ukrainians.

Anyone who has spent time in this area knows these things. Why you engage in such triviality is beyond me.
Click to expand...

Just poking fun at the Litwin style of posting.

He, like you, raises real issues in regards to the situation in both Russia and Ukraine.

Unlike you he them muddies the the message with "Nigeria in Snow", "Muscovy" and now "Somalia in Snow" and "Juchi Attack".

I imagine you even wince at how he presents what should be real concerns.

Hyperbole isn't anyone's freind once it goes beyond hyperbole for effect.
 
I posted here about the potential for Russian aggression in the Sea of Azov many months ago.

Both Ukraine and Russia are the littoral nations by tradition, history, understandings, and via treaty (Agreement between the Russian Federation and the Ukraine on cooperation in the use of the sea of Azov and the strait of Kerch. 2003)

Point number 4 in plain language.....

4) Mercantile vessels and other state non-commercial vessels flying the flags of the Russian Federation and the Ukraine have free navigation in the sea of Azov and the strait of Kerch.
Click to expand...

IN 2016 when it became obvious that Russia was not abiding by the mutual maritime treaty above, Ukraine filed suit.....

Ukraine v. Russia: Passage through Kerch Strait and the Sea of Azov

At issue here is Russia claiming the territorial waters of occupied Ukraine [Crimea] as Russian territorial waters. This claim is illegal.....

remote.axd


Marine Traffic data shows ships to/from Ukraine being denied transit at the Crimea bridge.....

Ds2BWXkXoAAVhRS.jpg


Ds60KQKX4AAR9iX.jpg
 
Fledermaus said:
Just poking fun at the Litwin style of posting.

He, like you, raises real issues in regards to the situation in both Russia and Ukraine.

Unlike you he them muddies the the message with "Nigeria in Snow", "Muscovy" and now "Somalia in Snow" and "Juchi Attack".

I imagine you even wince at how he presents what should be real concerns.

Hyperbole isn't anyone's freind once it goes beyond hyperbole for effect.
Click to expand...

I understand his posting methods are different. But his RL experience is also different than mine or yours.

I welcome allies where I find them. The real enemy here is the Kremlin, aided by its propagandist Westphalian.
 
Rogue Valley said:
I understand his posting methods are different. But his RL experience is also different than mine or yours.

I welcome allies where I find them. The real enemy here is the Kremlin, aided by its propagandist Westphalian.
Click to expand...

We agree on Westphalian 100%.

One wonders if he is payed for his services as he appears too intelligent to actually believe much of what he posts.
 
Ds7FT-PXoAAPNuU.jpg

Ukrainian Navy sailor Andrei Eider. Wounded in yesterday's Russian aggression in the Sea of Azov.
 
Rogue Valley said:
I understand his posting methods are different. But his RL experience is also different than mine or yours.

I welcome allies where I find them. The real enemy here is the Kremlin, aided by its propagandist Westphalian.
Click to expand...


You seem experienced in the area. I like the photos of the region. What do you see happening? Ukraine has two or more large ports that are cut off. Is this a temporary issue or a territory (water) grab? Winter is near as well, what arrangement is there for heating gas/oil?
 
Ds7ICQnXgAEPz9-.jpg


At the Ukraine Ministry of Foreign Affairs today. Accredited ambassadors to Ukraine were presented with clear evidence that the attack on Ukrainian naval vessels was a calculated act
of aggression, instigated by Russia. It was not a mistake or accident.
 
You will see at the UNSC tonight that Russia has irrefutable evidence that this was a planned provocation by Kiev and its CIA allies.

Poroshenko is of course now using this as an excuse to clamp down on domestic dissent and possibly postpone the election. Whilst Washington's Russia haters will try to force the Administration to add additional sanctions on Russia.

All of which only serves to kill democracy in Ukraine which was already undermined by the illegal coup again Yanukovych, and ensure that the necessary co-operation between the US and Russia in resolving global problems (Syria, nuclear arms control, Iran) does not take place.

But the real losers in all this will be Ukrainian people. Whilst the US sheds faux tears for Ukraine, it emboldens and sustains a grossly unpopular President and salivates over impoverishing its people still further for the benefit of US gas and coal which is far more expensive than the same product they used to buy at a reduced price from Russia or produce themselves.
 
Rexedgar said:
You seem experienced in the area. I like the photos of the region. What do you see happening? Ukraine has two or more large ports that are cut off. Is this a temporary issue or a territory (water) grab? Winter is near as well, what arrangement is there for heating gas/oil?
Click to expand...

I've lived in Ukraine. The nation is crisscrossed with transit pipelines. Over half of Ukraine's energy is derived from nuclear power. For coal-fired plants, the Netherlands is supplying whatever coal Ukraine is short due to the war in Donbas. Over the summer, Ukraine stores billions of cubic meters of gas and oil. When that supply runs short, Ukraine purchases oil/gas from the EU via "reverse flow". To help make the nation more energy independent, government subsidies of heating gas/oil were ended about a month ago. Consumer prices increased ~25%. This is a smart and prudent move in the long-term scheme of things. It will encourage national/personal energy conservation, and place Ukraine energy prices on a par with the rest of Europe. It's a difficult transition initially, but this is a necessary sacrifice to totally wean the nation from Russian energy supplies which are always used by Moscow for political leverage.

Per the Sea of Azov, I think the blockade will end shortly but tensions will remain. This is yet another pressure point Putin employs to force Ukraine to fail in its quest for a total divorce from Moscow.
Putin is also playing this like he does with Georgia ... "Incremental occupation". Little by little Moscow keeps swallowing up more neighbor territory.
I think Putin believes there will be few meaningful US consequences with Donald Trump in the White House.

The time has arrived to stop hoping Moscow will cease its aggression's. Abandon Nordstream II. Deny Russia use of the SWIFT banking system.
 
Westphalian said:
You will see at the UNSC tonight that Russia has irrefutable evidence that this was a planned provocation by Kiev and its CIA allies.
Click to expand...

No doubt as "Kremlin-irrefutable" as the MH-17 and Salisbury evidences.
 
Rogue Valley said:
No doubt as "Kremlin-irrefutable" as the MH-17 and Salisbury evidences.
Click to expand...

Trump has planned to meet Putin later this week in Argentina. Another “Helsinki” moment?
 
Rogue Valley said:
Muscovite is a [Cold War] pejorative term for Russians (they dislike it). Ukrop is a [Russian] derogatory name for Ukrainians.

Anyone who has spent time in this area knows these things. Why you engage in such triviality is beyond me.
Click to expand...

Moskali is nick name for Muscovites , Muscovy was the official name of Asiatic empire which attacks Ukraine today up to 18c.
but yes , Ukrainians have called actually Muscovites for Moskals for centuries , i dint know that
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/11/26/opinion/l-when-ukrainians-call-russians-moskali-068092.html
 
Rexedgar said:
Trump has planned to meet Putin later this week in Argentina. Another “Helsinki” moment?
Click to expand...

i don't think so , putler has 0 leverage for Trump today
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom