• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Borrowers exit troubled Obama mortgage program

Renae

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
48,389
Reaction score
18,084
Location
San Antonio Texas
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Obama administration's flagship effort to help people in danger of losing their homes is falling flat.

More than a third of the 1.24 million borrowers who have enrolled in the $75 billion mortgage modification program have dropped out. That's more than the 27 percent who have managed to have their loan payments reduced to help them keep their homes.

Last month alone, 150,000 borrowers left the program -- bringing the total to 436,000 who have exited since it began in March 2009.

Administration officials say borrowers will get help in other ways. But analysts fear the majority will still wind up in foreclosure.

A major reason so many have fallen out of the program is the Obama administration initially pressured banks to sign up borrowers without insisting first on proof of their income. When banks later moved to collect the information, many troubled homeowners were disqualified or dropped out.

Many borrowers complained that the banks lost their documents. The industry said borrowers weren't sending back the necessary paperwork.
Borrowers exit troubled Obama mortgage program - Yahoo! Finance

Is anyone shocked by this? a Big Gov't we'll save you program failing?

Anyone?

Anyone?


Bueller?

Bueller?


Chalk up another Obama :failpail:
 

Erod

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
15,369
Reaction score
8,101
Location
North Texas
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
It's hard to make mortgage payments with welfare checks, or after the census worker job dries up.

We were giving 5/1 arm mortgages out like candy. And lo and behold, now they can't pay. And now they want the same gubment to make their house payment for them because....well, they deserve to have a house like other people, right?
 

hazlnut

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
11,963
Reaction score
3,543
Location
Naperville, IL
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Borrowers exit troubled Obama mortgage program - Yahoo! Finance

Is anyone shocked by this? a Big Gov't we'll save you program failing?

Anyone?

Anyone?


Bueller?

Bueller?


Chalk up another Obama :failpail:

Am I surprised that Vicchio yet again posts a blog story without even reading it....???

Many borrowers complained that the banks lost their documents. The industry said borrowers weren't sending back the necessary paperwork.

No, not really

And it sounds like there are two sides to the story. Perhaps a Blog source isn't one you should be crowing about... jus' sayin...
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
53,921
Reaction score
35,259
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
another instance where the OP exhibits his ignorance about which he posts
27% of those who we facing foreclosure are now residing in their homes, with the prospect of foreclosure effectively negated
these are the folks who modified their loan thru reduction of interest rate and or maturity extension so that their present incomes will be adequate to enable them to make the reduced/revised mortgage payments
i would be surprised if that 27% did not view this as a successful action taken by the Obama administration

before the mortgage is formally modified, there is a trial period in which the borrowers must demonstrate they are able to consistently make the lower/adjusted payment amount. and as the article indicated, this is causing them to be ineligible for the permanent loan modification. even after extending loan maturity and reducing the mortgage interest rate, those debtors still have too large a total debt obligation to make the reduced payments. please explain why that is Obama's fault

additionally noted is that some upside down borrowers are receiving other mortgage adjustments outside the federal program and another portion facing foreclosure are using a short sale (deed in lieu of foreclosure) - now incentivized with a moving expense allowance. this is an excellent mechanism to mitigate the number of foreclosures - which only undermines the value of the existing housing stock

so, tell us vic, exactly what about the mortgage modification process has team Obama gotten wrong
 

Renae

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
48,389
Reaction score
18,084
Location
San Antonio Texas
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
Am I surprised that Vicchio yet again posts a blog story without even reading it....???



No, not really

And it sounds like there are two sides to the story. Perhaps a Blog source isn't one you should be crowing about... jus' sayin...



The AP is now a BLOG???
 

Renae

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
48,389
Reaction score
18,084
Location
San Antonio Texas
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
another instance where the OP exhibits his ignorance about which he posts
27% of those who we facing foreclosure are now residing in their homes, with the prospect of foreclosure effectively negated
these are the folks who modified their loan thru reduction of interest rate and or maturity extension so that their present incomes will be adequate to enable them to make the reduced/revised mortgage payments
i would be surprised if that 27% did not view this as a successful action taken by the Obama administration

before the mortgage is formally modified, there is a trial period in which the borrowers must demonstrate they are able to consistently make the lower/adjusted payment amount. and as the article indicated, this is causing them to be ineligible for the permanent loan modification. even after extending loan maturity and reducing the mortgage interest rate, those debtors still have too large a total debt obligation to make the reduced payments. please explain why that is Obama's fault

additionally noted is that some upside down borrowers are receiving other mortgage adjustments outside the federal program and another portion facing foreclosure are using a short sale (deed in lieu of foreclosure) - now incentivized with a moving expense allowance. this is an excellent mechanism to mitigate the number of foreclosures - which only undermines the value of the existing housing stock

so, tell us vic, exactly what about the mortgage modification process has team Obama gotten wrong


27%!!! Gee those other 73%... well too bad. Big Gov't can save 27%!!!

The bar lowers and lowers.
 

Objective Voice

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
11,606
Reaction score
4,171
Location
Huntsville, AL (USA)
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
And it sounds like there are two sides to the story. Perhaps a Blog source isn't one you should be crowing about... jus' sayin...

My neighbor - who didn't get caught up in the housing crisis initially because he was paying his mortgage on time until he got divorced - only started running into this problem after he submitted all of his paperwork. The only reason he started having problems paying his mortgage was because he got divorced in the middle of the housing crisis and got hit with tons of child support. He refinanced but got an ARM. The ARM adjusted upward right before the housing program came out. When he applied to have his mortgage modified, he got turned down because according to the finance company he didn't send in one piece of information they asked for, but according to him he did! Now, they won't even re-evaluate his claim. So, he's gonna let his house go.

I was in favor of this program as long as it remained fair. Having mortgages modified would have been a whole lot better than letting homes remain vacate. Hell, if people could get out from their mortgages by doing short-sells that still would have been fine. Unfortunately, most housing markets were neither a buyers or sellers market couse the economy was so flat.
 
Last edited:

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,893
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
another instance where the OP exhibits his ignorance about which he posts
27% of those who we facing foreclosure are now residing in their homes, with the prospect of foreclosure effectively negated
these are the folks who modified their loan thru reduction of interest rate and or maturity extension so that their present incomes will be adequate to enable them to make the reduced/revised mortgage payments
i would be surprised if that 27% did not view this as a successful action taken by the Obama administration

before the mortgage is formally modified, there is a trial period in which the borrowers must demonstrate they are able to consistently make the lower/adjusted payment amount. and as the article indicated, this is causing them to be ineligible for the permanent loan modification. even after extending loan maturity and reducing the mortgage interest rate, those debtors still have too large a total debt obligation to make the reduced payments. please explain why that is Obama's fault

additionally noted is that some upside down borrowers are receiving other mortgage adjustments outside the federal program and another portion facing foreclosure are using a short sale (deed in lieu of foreclosure) - now incentivized with a moving expense allowance. this is an excellent mechanism to mitigate the number of foreclosures - which only undermines the value of the existing housing stock

so, tell us vic, exactly what about the mortgage modification process has team Obama gotten wrong

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...-extend-foreclosure-crisis-watchdog-says.html
 

Objective Voice

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
11,606
Reaction score
4,171
Location
Huntsville, AL (USA)
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
It's hard to make mortgage payments with welfare checks, or after the census worker job dries up.

We were giving 5/1 arm mortgages out like candy. And lo and behold, now they can't pay. And now they want the same gubment to make their house payment for them because....well, they deserve to have a house like other people, right?

Not everyone who's in this situation is on Welfare. As indicated in my previous post, my neighbor is a hard working man who just got caught up in the housing turmoil. It would have happened to me had I not refinanced when I did and insisted on a fixed mortgage while the rates were still low, and I'm not on welfare, didn't borrow more than I could afford, bought my home w/a decent down payment, but initially was on an ARM loan. I just got lucky because I paid attention to what was happening in the housing market and took appropriate action at the right time. Not everyone was so lucky and even not everyone who is having problems are having difficulties because of something they did wrong. I know of more than one case where a family did everything right when the purchased their home but still got caught up in the housing mess just because they had ARMs and not fixed mortgages.
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Not surprised the government bailout of defaulting loans failed.
Won't be surprised if that same government claims the failure is a rousing success.

Delaying the inevitable never turns out well.
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
53,921
Reaction score
35,259
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Not surprised the government bailout of defaulting loans failed.
Won't be surprised if that same government claims the failure is a rousing success.

Delaying the inevitable never turns out well.

for the 27% who are in a home no longer subject to foreclosure, it WAS a rousing success
 

Renae

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
48,389
Reaction score
18,084
Location
San Antonio Texas
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
for the 27% who are in a home no longer subject to foreclosure, it WAS a rousing success

27% is a waste of money, and if anyone but government was running it would be fired, bankrupt and scoffed at.

Emotionalism has no place in monatary decisions.
 
Last edited:

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
for the 27% who are in a home no longer subject to foreclosure, it WAS a rousing success

Too expensive with a 73% failure rate. Sorry - 73% failure is an overall failure.

27% of a High School seniors graduating is atrocious.
27% of planes arriving on time in an airport is infuriating.
27% of hospital operations being successful guarantees lots of lawsuits.
27% of forclosures being avoided due to a government bailout is a failure.

Obama has to go back to telling everyone to inflate their tires. That at least was sound advice which didn't cost the tax payers or increase the national debt by 4 trillion dollars.
 

country

Member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
89
Reaction score
23
Location
mo
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
27%!!! Gee those other 73%... well too bad. Big Gov't can save 27%!!!

The bar lowers and lowers.

I have a bumper sticker that states "Honk if I'm paying your mortgage" I was surprised at the response it got. Most are single finger salutes. barrel of laughs though.
 

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,893
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
for the 27% who are in a home no longer subject to foreclosure, it WAS a rousing success

You're misinterpreting the 27% number. That's the percent of people enrolled in the program who have had their loans modified, not the percent of people facing foreclosure who have had their homes saved. The article wasn't clear as originally written, but it's since been updated by the AP.

There are 7.3 million homeowners who are 30+ days delinquent on their mortgage. 340,000 homeowners have had their mortgages modified under the Obama program. That's approx. 4.7% of all people facing foreclosure.

Moreover, a full two thirds of those people who have had permanent modifications are still expected to default and face foreclosure. That means that approximately 113,000 homeowners, or 1.57% of those facing foreclosure, have actually received long-term help under this program.

Moreover, most analysts (and the Treasury IG itself) have said that the program will actually extend the foreclosure crisis and do more harm than good.
 

Renae

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
48,389
Reaction score
18,084
Location
San Antonio Texas
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
You're misinterpreting the 27% number. That's the percent of people enrolled in the program who have had their loans modified, not the percent of people facing foreclosure who have had their homes saved. The article wasn't clear as originally written, but it's since been updated by the AP.

There are 7.3 million homeowners who are 30+ days delinquent on their mortgage. 340,000 homeowners have had their mortgages modified under the Obama program. That's approx. 4.7% of all people facing foreclosure.

Moreover, a full two thirds of those people who have had permanent modifications are still expected to default and face foreclosure. That means that approximately 113,000 homeowners, or 1.57% of those facing foreclosure, have actually received long-term help under this program.

Moreover, most analysts (and the Treasury IG itself) have said that the program will actually extend the foreclosure crisis and do more harm than good.

/In justabubba voice:

But for those 113,000 families, it was a resounding success. Do want to put 113,000 more families, children... mothers out in the street? How can you call this a failure when 113,000 homes have been saved??? Obama's actually helping families and all you can do is complain.

/over
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
53,921
Reaction score
35,259
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
You're misinterpreting the 27% number. That's the percent of people enrolled in the program who have had their loans modified, not the percent of people facing foreclosure who have had their homes saved. The article wasn't clear as originally written, but it's since been updated by the AP.
hell, the 27% figure was in the OP and his cite
where is the misrepresentation?
but for the loan modification program, those homeowners would have their properties subject to forced sale at liquidation auction
preserving the homes of 27% of defaulted homeowners is an excellent record

There are 7.3 million homeowners who are 30+ days delinquent on their mortgage. 340,000 homeowners have had their mortgages modified under the Obama program. That's approx. 4.7% of all people facing foreclosure.
27% of people facing foreclosure have been successful in salvaging their homes from forced sale because of Obama's modification program. that is a significant accomplishment

Moreover, a full two thirds of those people who have had permanent modifications are still expected to default and face foreclosure. That means that approximately 113,000 homeowners, or 1.57% of those facing foreclosure, have actually received long-term help under this program.
you say this, but without offering any evidence to back up this "prediction"

Moreover, most analysts (and the Treasury IG itself) have said that the program will actually extend the foreclosure crisis and do more harm than good.
again no cite to verify your spurious claims
also recognize none of the wingers who seek to disparage the Obama program to preserve homes have been able to offer any specific actions they believe Obama should have taken but did not, in order to allow more defaulting borrowers to keep their homes. for the THIRD time, i welcome you to offer up your suggestions to tell us what should have been done but was not
 

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,893
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
hell, the 27% figure was in the OP and his cite

Which is why I said "The article wasn't clear as originally written, but it's since been updated by the AP."

Go look at the article, it's since had the 27% figure removed. Once again, the numbers I'm using are taken directly from the OP and the links I've provided you.

justabubba said:
but for the loan modification program, those homeowners would have their properties subject to forced sale at liquidation auction
preserving the homes of 27% of defaulted homeowners is an excellent record

27% of people facing foreclosure have been successful in salvaging their homes from forced sale because of Obama's modification program. that is a significant accomplishment

Once again, this did not "preserve the homes of 27% of defaulted homeowners." That's just factually inaccurate. Again, please read the link the the OP again and look at the links I've provided you if you don't believe me.

justabubba said:
you say this, but without offering any evidence to back up this "prediction"

I assumed that you had read the article linked in the OP:

OP said:
Credit ratings agency Fitch Ratings projects that about two-thirds of borrowers with permanent modifications under the Obama plan will default again within a year after getting their loans modified.

...

justabubba said:
again no cite to verify your spurious claims

I assumed that you had read either

a) The article in the OP:

OP said:
But analysts expect the majority will still wind up in foreclosure and that could slow the broader economic recovery.

or

b) The first link that I provided for you:

Article said:
The Obama administration’s main foreclosure-prevention program risks helping few borrowers and may do more harm than good by “merely spreading out the foreclosure crisis” over several years, federal investigators said.


...


justabubba said:
also recognize none of the wingers who seek to disparage the Obama program to preserve homes have been able to offer any specific actions they believe Obama should have taken but did not, in order to allow more defaulting borrowers to keep their homes. for the THIRD time, i welcome you to offer up your suggestions to tell us what should have been done but was not

If there was a way to structure this program such that it would help a larger proportion of people and would not extend the foreclosure crisis, the program should have been structured in that way.

If there was not a way to structure this program such that it would help a larger proportion of people and would not extend the foreclosure crisis, the program should not have been enacted at all.
 

Ockham

Noblesse oblige
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
23,909
Reaction score
11,001
Location
New Jersey
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Why would anyone bother discussing issues when spin is all one gets instead of honesty? No clue. I guess credibility by spinning a fake 27% and constantly claiming it's a success is some sort of insanity where if one claims a falsehood enough, it magically turns into truth. The amount of denial lately in favor of Obama by the appologists has just been nauseating. Independent justabubba? And independent what .... ? I can't say upstairs.
 

NolaMan

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
808
Reaction score
203
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
27% of people facing foreclosure have been successful in salvaging their homes from forced sale because of Obama's modification program. that is a significant accomplishment

No doubt when only 27% of people on government healthcare actually get healthcare you will call it a "significant accomplishment" as well. :roll:

If I had a 27% success rate at my job, I would be fired. You have to draw a line somewhere. You cannot spend billions of dollars to "possibly" prevent a handful of foreclosures.
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
53,921
Reaction score
35,259
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
No doubt when only 27% of people on government healthcare actually get healthcare you will call it a "significant accomplishment" as well. :roll:

If I had a 27% success rate at my job, I would be fired. You have to draw a line somewhere. You cannot spend billions of dollars to "possibly" prevent a handful of foreclosures.

these folks' home ownership futures were terminal but for Obama's modification program
if we could save 27% of terminal cancer patients who otherwise would bite the dust, i think that would be termed a success


and still no wingers willing to offer their specific thoughts about what Obama should have done that he failed to do to assist these folks in financial distress
 

NolaMan

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
808
Reaction score
203
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
these folks' home ownership futures were terminal but for Obama's modification program
if we could save 27% of terminal cancer patients who otherwise would bite the dust, i think that would be termed a success

Problem is, saving terminal cancer patients should never be the responsibility of the taxpayers.

and still no wingers willing to offer their specific thoughts about what Obama should have done that he failed to do to assist these folks in financial distress

I think Obama should have done nothing personally. Why do we automatically assume that "folks in financial distress" will be entitled to government rescue?
 

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,893
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
these folks' home ownership futures were terminal but for Obama's modification program
if we could save 27% of terminal cancer patients who otherwise would bite the dust, i think that would be termed a success

If you're going to implicitly admit that you were wrong by avoiding my post, the least you could do is refrain from repeating your demonstrably false numbers.

and still no wingers willing to offer their specific thoughts about what Obama should have done that he failed to do to assist these folks in financial distress

What exactly are you looking for? Do you want me to put together a 1000 page prospectus and have it on your desk in the morning?

I'm not an expert on the housing market. However, I can read the articles in front of me and understand that when private analysts and the government are both saying that the program is not working, it's probably not working. I'm baffled as to why you're having such trouble acknowledging this.

To put it in terms you'll appreciate, "still no libs willing to offer their specific thoughts on whether the program remains a good idea in light of its substantial underperformance and potential extension of the foreclosure crisis."
 

justabubba

long standing member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
53,921
Reaction score
35,259
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
If you're going to implicitly admit that you were wrong by avoiding my post, the least you could do is refrain from repeating your demonstrably false numbers.
you characterize 27% as a failing accomplishment
i offered a perspective to show that 27% of those who would otherwise face foreclosure no longer do
to me - and that 27% - it would be a resounding success

What exactly are you looking for? Do you want me to put together a 1000 page prospectus and have it on your desk in the morning?
you assert that Obama failed because he did not do enough. i have asked on three occasions within this thread for the wingers to identify specifically what should have been done by team Obama which would have improved on that 27% success rate. so far nothing ... but that was what i expected. as i began. the OP and his cohort obviously have no understanding of the market, economics or finance ... only making unsubstantiated swipes at Obama's accomplishments. you have jumped into a depth your side's talking points cannot reach

I'm not an expert on the housing market.
thank you for confirming the obvious

However, I can read the articles in front of me and understand that when private analysts and the government are both saying that the program is not working, it's probably not working. I'm baffled as to why you're having such trouble acknowledging this.
you have insisted they say this but you offer no cite, no data, no facts, merely second hand opinion. based on what i have read that you and your ilk have posted, that is far from adequate to be convincing

To put it in terms you'll appreciate, "still no libs willing to offer their specific thoughts on whether the program remains a good idea in light of its substantial underperformance and potential extension of the foreclosure crisis."

but i disagree with your dubious, unsupported position that there is any evidence of underperformance. from all i see, the mortgage modification program is a very successful effort launched and administared by the Obama administration. and you have provided nothing to counter that fact
 

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,893
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
you characterize 27% as a failing accomplishment
i offered a perspective to show that 27% of those who would otherwise face foreclosure no longer do
to me - and that 27% - it would be a resounding success

I don't characterize 27% as anything, because 27% is the wrong number. I've pointed this out to you three times, yet you continue to lie about it. Why? Do you think that if you repeat it enough it will magically become true?

you assert that Obama failed because he did not do enough. i have asked on three occasions within this thread for the wingers to identify specifically what should have been done by team Obama which would have improved on that 27% success rate. so far nothing ... but that was what i expected. as i began. the OP and his cohort obviously have no understanding of the market, economics or finance ... only making unsubstantiated swipes at Obama's accomplishments. you have jumped into a depth your side's talking points cannot reach

And you're either incapable of reading English or so disingenuous that it's not worth responding to you. I explained (politely, I might add) that you understandably misinterpreted the article. When you responded with your characteristic derision and willful blindness, I tried again. If you still can't understand what I'm saying, that's your problem.

you have insisted they say this but you offer no cite, no data, no facts, merely second hand opinion. based on what i have read that you and your ilk have posted, that is far from adequate to be convincing

but i disagree with your dubious, unsupported position that there is any evidence of underperformance.

I know, where would I get the "dubious, unsupported position that there is any evidence of underperformance"?


(Reuters) - A U.S. program aimed at helping struggling homeowners avoid foreclosure has been oversold by the Treasury Department and is likely to be a failure when it wraps up in 2012, a report from the watchdog overseeing the $700 billion bank bailout said on Tuesday.


Home loan modification program oversold: watchdog | Reuters

I've tried linking and quoting, but that doesn't seem to make an impression on you. Perhaps large text will have an effect.

from all i see, the mortgage modification program is a very successful effort launched and administared by the Obama administration. and you have provided nothing to counter that fact

Other than a report from the Gov agency overseeing the program, you're absolutely right.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom