Boeing admits flaws in 737 MAX simulator software after crashes

[Thoreau72]

The airplane industry has few options. Just like McDonnell Douglas took to fall for American’s **** up in the 191 crash.

In a world where people act with phony outrage over some one off events in a risky field like flying every little tiny thing will be overscrutinized. Airbus’s joystick configuration arguably caused the Air France 447 crash but in the end that was pilot error as well.

There are procedures pilots are supposed to use, a bad AOA indicator (which many airplanes don’t even have) should not be sufficient to cause a fatal crash, and in fact when a pilot who’s skilled and follows proper procedures is at the controls it doesn’t.

Regarding the AF accident recorded at the airshow with passengers onboard, yes it might have shown poor judgement on the part of the pilot, but it also showed poor design of the software by Airbus engineers. After that accident they changed the software.

 

[beefheart]

Thank you for an excellent reference article.

Thanks, I know Brett, he is a good guy, we both worked at America West back in the day, though I never knew him then. He really knows the biz and has a great blog, and he has an airlne related concierge service for frequent travelers, his team goes into overdrive to assist stranded travelers.

 

[beefheart]

Regarding the AF accident recorded at the airshow with passengers onboard, yes it might have shown poor judgement on the part of the pilot, but it also showed poor design of the software by Airbus engineers. After that accident they changed the software.

No, that isn't the airshow crash, that was a pr disaster with the A320. The AF crash was an A330 going from Rio to Paris, it crashed because the pitot tubes were clogged with ice, it was deemed a human error crash.

 

[JasperL]

You are amazed that greed carried more weight at a US Corporation than safety and professionalism did?

I am NOT amazed that you are amazed.

I'm NOT amazed that you're NOT amazed that I was amazed!

Just FWIW, my surprise wasn't that a corporation would do it, but that their mistake carried so little cost in the marketplace. Those are two different concepts.

 

[Thoreau72]

I'm NOT amazed that you're NOT amazed that I was amazed!

Just FWIW, my surprise wasn't that a corporation would do it, but that their mistake carried so little cost in the marketplace. Those are two different concepts.

The penalties in the market place are yet to be fully known. There have been some cancellations by some foreign carriers I think, but it remains to be seen how this will all end and how the marketplace will ultimately respond.

 

[JasperL]

The penalties in the market place are yet to be fully known. There have been some cancellations by some foreign carriers I think, but it remains to be seen how this will all end and how the marketplace will ultimately respond.

Goodness, I'm not sure why you're picking on me here. I explicitly referenced the stock price and the stock price performance to this point is what it is, which is if you were just a slightly long-term investor, their strategy worked brilliantly for you. Of course I know that's to this point, because I'm not an idiot. They could lose more planes, more orders, have the FAA permanently ground the plane! Lots of things COULD happen!!!

The point was simply that rushing things to get the orders out there worked, and killing a few hundred passengers because your beta testing program failed twice was just a bump in the road.

 

[Thoreau72]

Goodness, I'm not sure why you're picking on me here. I explicitly referenced the stock price and the stock price performance to this point is what it is, which is if you were just a slightly long-term investor, their strategy worked brilliantly for you. Of course I know that's to this point, because I'm not an idiot. They could lose more planes, more orders, have the FAA permanently ground the plane! Lots of things COULD happen!!!

The point was simply that rushing things to get the orders out there worked, and killing a few hundred passengers because your beta testing program failed twice was just a bump in the road.

Sorry, I was not picking on you. I apologize for the sharp tongue, I'm guilty of that. I think we're mostly in agreement. One could say the stock market reflects the marketplace, but I don't play the stock market anymore.

Yes, the company cheated in bringing the airplane to market without proper testing, and that was the result of greed. Yes, the passengers were crash test dummies.

The final outcome has not yet been reached.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The penalties in the market place are yet to be fully known. There have been some cancellations by some foreign carriers I think, but it remains to be seen how this will all end and how the marketplace will ultimately respond.

You might find "China's big three airlines seek Boeing compensation over 737 MAX grounding" interesting.

Using the data from that one article the "damages" that China, alone, will be seeking (and assuming ONLY a 60 day grounding) will amount to around $83,346,624. The total amount (for the full 393 737 MAXs produced) would, thus be around $341,200,242 which works out to around 3.25% of Boeing's 2018 profit. That would mean that, for every $100 in dividends that a Boeing shareholder would have received WITHOUT paying out that $341,200,242 they would receive a mere $96.75.

Such a crushing blow to the US economy would - inevitably - cause the US economy to totally collapse (to say nothing about resulting in wholesale firing [without compensation] of a major portion of Boeing's management).

So, as you can see, Boeing it totally petrified over this matter.

Right?

 

[Thoreau72]

You might find "China's big three airlines seek Boeing compensation over 737 MAX grounding" interesting.

Using the data from that one article the "damages" that China, alone, will be seeking (and assuming ONLY a 60 day grounding) will amount to around $83,346,624. The total amount (for the full 393 737 MAXs produced) would, thus be around $341,200,242 which works out to around 3.25% of Boeing's 2018 profit. That would mean that, for every $100 in dividends that a Boeing shareholder would have received WITHOUT paying out that $341,200,242 they would receive a mere $96.75.

Such a crushing blow to the US economy would - inevitably - cause the US economy to totally collapse (to say nothing about resulting in wholesale firing [without compensation] of a major portion of Boeing's management).

So, as you can see, Boeing it totally petrified over this matter.

Right?

Yes it would seem that way.

However the profits from Boeing's various military divisions would maybe offset the losses from the civil airliner part?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Yes it would seem that way.

However the profits from Boeing's various military divisions would maybe offset the losses from the civil airliner part?

I don't think that a one time 3.25% reduction in profits is likely to act as much of a deterrent to Boeing.