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Black man harassed by cops for filming

In most states the law requires all citizens to present ID to LEO upon request.

In fact, there is no state that has such a law.

There are states that have a stop and identify law, but that only comes into play when the police have a REASONABLE SUSPICTION that the suspect is committing a CRIME.

In Texas, where this incident took place, a citizens doesn't have to identify themselves unless arrested.

NOTE: the above all assumes that you aren't driving.
 
I can think of lots of reasons that police would be nervous about someone filming their station, frankly.

The guy with the camera is a jerk.

Making the police nervous is not against the law.
Why should filming the outside of a police station make them nervous anyway?
 
Texas Law 38.02 is referenced in the video.
My emphasis and the point of the interaction. Mr Turner wasn't arrested only detained.

That's actually tricky in this situation. It came out in court that Mr. Turner asked if he was under arrest and the cops said, "yes". He then asked if he was being detained and the cops said, "yes". And it could well have become a defacto arrest at some point.

I'll post the oral arguments before the 5th Circuit where they talk about this case:

 
In this case, the police weren't wrong; they were set up to be patsies for a self-indulgent propaganda purpose. Surely even you can see that.

You know I am among the first to stand against and decry actual police brutality, but a couple of confused cops obviously being used as YouTube fodder gets nothing from me but a disgusted scoff and a headshake.

They were wrong. Their job is to enforce the law...not their feelings.
 
@Bodhisattva You have my response to the actual facts. I'm not going to argue with your cop-hating silliness. Have a nice day.

I think you should listen to the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals talk about this case. The cops were wrong based on the "actual facts". You're fantasies about the photographer's motives, or some phantom fears that the cops may have had, aren't the stuff of "actual facts". The law and what the police are and are not allowed to do under the law, is.
 
That's actually tricky in this situation. It came out in court that Mr. Turner asked if he was under arrest and the cops said, "yes". He then asked if he was being detained and the cops said, "yes". And it could well have become a defacto arrest at some point.

Er...sorry, I was getting my cases confused. Here is the case I was thinking of (this is NOT Mr. Turner's case)



I'll post the oral arguments before the 5th Circuit where they talk about this case:

 
How, by asking him to identify himself, and holding him in the cop car for five minutes while they figured out who he was? In most states the law requires all citizens to present ID to LEO upon request. The jerk with the camera showed up to deliberately create an opportunity to make a YouTube presence for himself, that's all.

Also, how does anyone know the camera guy was black? When he was whining about his poor wrists being in handcuffs, they looked pretty white to me.
If you have committed no crime and there is no credible suspicion of an crime or that you have committed a crime or are about to commit a crime, then you do not have to identify yourself if you are just walking on the street. Now if you are driving in your car then it is legal to demand a drivers license.

There are only 12 stop and identify states, which are states in which when there is a suspicion based on specific and articulable facts, then a suspect has to identify him or herself.

Now in other states there mostly is not such a demand but if you don't want to identify then you have to keep your trap shut because if you lie and make up a fraudulent name/identity then you are screwed because you may not have to identify yourself, but you are not allowed to lie about it. Lying about your identity is a crime.

In the Netherlands (and yes, I know that is not the USA in case some, not you DiAnna but some other posters who in the past have made comments about this) everybody above the age of 14 must be able to show an identity card/passport. But this does not mean that an officer can walk up to you in the street (while you are doing nothing suspicious or potentially a witness) and demand identification.

But if you are in a small crowd outside of a fire where the police suspects foul play, they can ask the crowd to identify to make sure the suspect might not be hiding in the crowd.

And the police cannot just take information from this identity card and let it become public knowledge. All institutes/law enforcement officers/etc. can just use your information to identify. They cannot take information from that card unless there is a specific need for it and that information when collected immediately falls under the privacy laws. That means that information cannot be accessible by those that do not have legal permission to do so and failure to protect that information from your ID card can lead to prosecution and heavy fines.

For example if my employer takes a copy of my ID card (the Dutch version of the IRS demands this to make sure someone is legal to work) and he puts it in a system that anybody with a 14 year old computer skill can hack into and steal this copy of the passport/ID card then the employer will get prosecuted for their violating the right to privacy laws of the Netherlands.

Usually the police is not that fussy about ID cards, if you do not have one with you but you have other means of identifying (like your bankcard/student card/drivers license then the police will/may not fine you for not having an ID. I have even seen cases in which the person was just around the corner from his house and just forgot his wallet, then he can call home and ask someone to bring his papers and that is also fine. In the Netherlands ID laws are not there for generating income, just for identifying.

If you cannot or are unwilling to identify yourself you will be taken to the police station where they ascertain your identity, as soon as that is done and that person is not wanted or has not committed other offenses, they will get a fine and sent home.

In the US I can understand people's reluctance to identify. Often I have heard that the information is then put in a police system and then you are known to the police. In the Netherlands the police do not go around voluntarily asking people for their ID and then making a record of it that is logged in police files.
 
Oh, I don't know.


What has that got to do with someone simply filming a police station?
It's a public building and you can film the outside and many places inside.
It's been settled in law and is the entire reason why people do audits.
 
What has that got to do with someone simply filming a police station?
It's a public building and you can film the outside and many places inside.
It's been settled in law and is the entire reason why people do audits.
You asked why police might feel nervous. And the answer certainly includes the fact that 2021 was most violent and deadly against police officers in history.
 
You asked why police might feel nervous. And the answer certainly includes the fact that 2021 was most violent and deadly against police officers in history.

Which is to say, not very violent nor deadly.
 
58 officers killed by people…out of about 650,000 or about .0089%…

To put this in perspective, about 301 officers died of COVID-19 in 2021.
You seem upset that more of the 314 officers shot in the line of duty didn't die. DO you have people shooting to kill you at your job?
 
You seem upset that more of the 314 officers shot in the line of duty didn't die. DO you have people shooting to kill you at your job?

Being a cop is still less dangerous of a job than being a truck driver, farmer, construction worker...or even your local garbage man.
 
Not as dangerous as mindlessly banging your keyboard in your basement, huh?

Mindlessly? I don't know. You're the one that is swallowing the propaganda whole.
 
Mindlessly? I don't know. You're the one that is swallowing the propaganda whole.

You're not getting much traction here with your Police hating posts DM.
I think maybe a nice CopBlok type Police hating website would be more receptive to your anarchist and lawless messaging. Decent and respectable people dont want that IMO.
Thats not what we stand for.
 
less dangerous of a job than being a truck driver, farmer, construction worker...or even your local garbage man.

You're talking about jobs where there are lots of unintentional accidents, mostly traffic and falls.
Not the same as being a Police Officer, where you have to butt heads daily with the lowest pond scum in society.
You should get down on your knees and spit shine the boots of every Officer you see. Show some respect for those who do what you could never do.

Thank you for all you do Officers! All intelligent and decent people are behind you 100%!!!💯💯💯💯💯
 
Are police, people we entrust to carry guns and kill people really patsies when faced
with a person standing there with a camera saying I have freedom of the press? They
can't take a few moments and check in with their boss and find out the actual law??

Instead what we see are cops just making stuff up, violating rights and demanding ID.

I know that you are I would just counter that cops should know the laws that they are paid to uphold.

Sorry, but I'm going to have to agree with @DiAnna until I find something that says otherwise.
 

Sorry, but I'm going to have to agree with @DiAnna until I find something that says otherwise.

From your link:
The Failure to Identify crime in the state of Texas requires you to provide police officers your name and certain other identifying information when you have been arrested. It also gives police the right to arrest you if they have lawfully arrested or detained you or if you are a witness to a crime and you give a fake name to the officer.

That's completely different from what DiAnna said:
In most states the law requires all citizens to present ID to LEO upon request.
 
From your link:
The Failure to Identify crime in the state of Texas requires you to provide police officers your name and certain other identifying information when you have been arrested. It also gives police the right to arrest you if they have lawfully arrested or detained you or if you are a witness to a crime and you give a fake name to the officer.

That's completely different from what DiAnna said:
or DETAINED.
 
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