Black Lives Don't Matter... To Black People.

[bomberfox]

I work with minority youth. I am in and aware of what is happening. So... More about the issues confronting Black Americans than who?

I saw it every day... literally, while I taught in the USA and I see it everyday, literally, working with Maori youth and gangs here.... You post like a tourist, upset about the unfairness of the world and trying to strike down things that upset your feelings. Shit happens. Life is tough and not fair.

I live in a very nice area. Yes.

I would bet that I have been to and in far more dangerous neighborhoods and situations due to work than you have ever imagined, much less been in.

Explain.

It is also incumbent upon the police to establish trust in the community. Do you think gangs appear in large numbers where there is high trust in public servants? BLM’s goal in addressing police brutality would so a couple things. Police brutality creates a vicious cycle where black neighborhoods have to police themselves which creates a situation where they have to establish their own “justice” system (part of the reason gangs have existed is that need to take things into their own hands)


1. establish trust in police by reducing brutality and enhancing accountability, reducing the need to self police.

2. It gets rid of the vicious cycle that keeps reinforcing itself

3. reforming the prison system to be one of rehabilitation reduces recidivism this lowering crime rates.

That is how BLM addresses it.

 

[bomberfox]

Just like "defund/dismantle the police"... "Black Lives Matters" is a stupid and inaccurate slogan. Can you admit that?

It isnt. All that it says is black lives matter. That is all. This stupid charge is boring.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Just like "defund/dismantle the police"... "Black Lives Matters" is a stupid and inaccurate slogan. Can you admit that?

It's not a popular slogan, but it's definitely based on sound policy which even most police agree with. Ask a police officer if they think they should be handling 90% of what they're tasked to. Rather than enforce law, police are used to 'clean up' areas of society that are severely underfunded. This generally takes the form of harassing black and brown people.

This police offer here lays it down BRILLIANTLY.

 

[justabubba]

I have been a part of the solution my entire life. I have been a cop and I have worked with every community I lived in to bring crime and violence to an end. The police have never been the problem unless you were one of the criminals they were trying to rid the country of. The millions of decent law enforcing people all across this country you slander with your misinformation and lies by the few bad cops that should have been weeded out by the failed leaders who have not and are not doing their job.

I realized that when I was 12.

if only your posts reflected such appropriate insight

 

[justabubba]

The under estimation relative to the importance of a father in the home is foolish

a father in the home with limited parenting skills and/or serving as a terrible role model is not inspiring
the point being that the percentage of fathers being resident in homes tells us nothing

 

[justabubba]

Wrong. When you defund you take money away from police that should be spent on training and hiring officers with better skills and training.

no. it replaces a police officer without the necessary training and experience in mental health and domestic violence issues with someone who does possess those skills
having all the responders to incidents being gun toters is not an approach that is very attuned to the needs of the people being policed

I have been to too many domestic disturbances as a cop and as a neighbor/citizen unfortunately. Most of the time the 2 people fighting are looking for trouble and when they attack the police they will have found it. The same thing with criminals that start trouble with the police. Every one I know that has had trouble with the police were looking for trouble when they found it.

you have just unintentionally posted an eloquent explanation why our nation needs to revise its staffing/training of our police forces
when all you have is a gun all that you see are prospective targets

I have watched the Houston police deal with the mentally when I was younger when we threw all the mentally ill people out onto the streets in this country. I have also dealt with them first hand. If you think they cannot become violent towards the police as well as pose a serious danger to citizens you are clueless to say the least.

we finally agree on something: the mental health needs of our nation far outstrip the the mental health resources available to fulfill that need
and you are correct. prison has become the place where we deal with too many people who would be better served in a secure mental health environment
which causes me to wonder why i need to explain to you that mental health specialists need to be part and parcel of our police forces

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

You say getting rid of police is going to help the violence in black communities.
Why are people in the black communities saying they need more police patrolling their communities in order to feel safe? Or don't you believe that statistical fact?
Yours was such a ridiculous statement I can't believe you are serious.

First I did not say the decent law abiding black people who are being plagued by the crime and violence in their neighborhoods do not want the police protection. It is the people who think defunding and dismantling the police is the solution. When you defund and dismantle the police you limit their ability to do their job. This not a solution but only making things worse.

 

[justabubba]

You wrote: "someone trained in DV matters can probably de-escalate the circumstance in a way the typical cop and his gun will not ditto for mental health problems."
I really hope the guy trained in DV matters is a big, black dude wearing a quality Kevlar vest and is skilled in non-lethal combat.
Some DV situations can lead to lethal outcomes.

yes they can
but nowhere did i see you address the need to augment the police force with persons skilled in mental health/domestic violence incidents; someone who might be able to turn the incident into something non-lethal

and as an aside, to pick up on your dog whistle, why does the responder to the domestic incident have to be black?

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

no. it replaces a police officer without the necessary training and experience in mental health and domestic violence issues with someone who does possess those skills
having all the responders to incidents being gun toters is not an approach that is very attuned to the needs of the people being policed

Wrong. The police must be the first responders to bring a dangerous a situation under control. Then it is up to the courts to decide what will be done with the people breaking the law. You have clearly never been to a domestic disturbance or a crime in progress. This is what the police are for and have to do. Once the person/persons who are out of control and doing harm to others and/or themselves have been stopped and apprehended it is the courts that decide what action is taken to correct the problem. It is the left leaders in our left run cities that have not weeded out the few bad apples or provided the proper training that is need by police to do this job. Sorry but sending mental health professional to a violent crime in progress is not going to work. First until the police arrive and bring the situation under control we do not even know if a mental health professional is even needed. Training our overworked mental health professionals as police officers and sending them to a crime in progress is a ridiculous waste of resources. That is the job of the police. The mental health professionals job is to provide treatment for these people. The system works when it is run properly by competent leaders instead of party puppets.

 

[jaypatriot]

yes they can
but nowhere did i see you address the need to augment the police force with persons skilled in mental health/domestic violence incidents; someone who might be able to turn the incident into something non-lethal

and as an aside, to pick up on your dog whistle, why does the responder to the domestic incident have to be black?

Good question at the end:
Logic tells me that when people show up to cool down a serious domestic disturbance among black people, it is better if that "skilled" DV specialist is big and black and knows how to talk to people who might be ready to kill each other.
In that case, being of the same color could diffuse the situation faster.
You can make that logic connection, right?

 

[jaypatriot]

First I did not say the decent law abiding black people who are being plagued by the crime and violence in their neighborhoods do not want the police protection. It is the people who think defunding and dismantling the police is the solution. When you defund and dismantle the police you limit their ability to do their job. This not a solution but only making things worse.

OK. We agree. "Defunding" the police is a dumb idea because people in crime-ridden communities want police protection.
What made stupid city managers do defunding in the first place was the threat of more riots prompted by BLM terrorist groups' threats of more violence.
What else would make feckless city managers cut back on their police forces at the time of rising protests by BLM so-called activists?
Now cities are re-funding police departments as murders and other crimes increase.
Smart moves by Democratic-led cities.

 

[justabubba]

Good question at the end:
Logic tells me that when people show up to cool down a serious domestic disturbance among black people, it is better if that "skilled" DV specialist is big and black and knows how to talk to people who might be ready to kill each other.
In that case, being of the same color could diffuse the situation faster.
You can make that logic connection, right?

the only logical connection i can make about expecting a black man to respond to a DV incident is that it is a racist assumption

hope you are able to process that logical connection

 

[jaypatriot]

the only logical connection i can make about expecting a black man to respond to a DV incident is that it is a racist assumption

hope you are able to process that logical connection

You're telling me there is no difference in whether it is a white or black man walking into a black and heated domestic violence situation for the purpose of de-escalation?

And my conclusion is racist.?
Now we're getting into a discussion of whether it is better to have black or white policemen going into a situation that is dangerous and perhaps racially charged.?

Whenever we hear of another shooting of a black suspect by a cop my first reaction is "I sure hope it was a black cop doing the shooting." Why do you think that is?
Because I am racist or because we don't need any more riots inspired by BLM terrorist groups?.

 

[justabubba]

You're telling me there is no difference in whether it is a white or black man walking into a black and heated domestic violence situation for the purpose of de-escalation?

And my conclusion is racist.?
Now we're getting into a discussion of whether it is better to have black or white policemen going into a situation that is dangerous and perhaps racially charged.?

Whenever we hear of another shooting of a black suspect by a cop my first reaction is "I sure hope it was a black cop doing the shooting." Why do you think that is?
Because I am racist or because we don't need any more riots inspired by BLM terrorist groups?.

I choose option A

 

[Top Cat]

Another white guy whose a real ****in expert on what black people think! Gather around everybody, this superior white man will tell us how he just knows so much better. (and cites long-debunked statistics to boot!)

They don't, as a group. If they mattered BLM would be in the communities and addressing the overwhelming statistics that show that black men kill black people far more than police kill black people, that black men make up about 6.5% of the population but commit about 54% of the murders, that black men are 27x more likely to attack white men than the other way around, that black men are about 8x more likely to attack Hispanic men than the other way around, that BLM is about grandstanding, accusations and hypocrisy.



Do you agree or not and why?

I think you are over simplifying a very complex problem. This NY Times article speaks to the situation.

America’s Refusal to Address the Roots of Violence

Elliott Currie’s “A Peculiar Indifference” traces the history of violence in Black communities and the reasons for it.

www.nytimes.com

 

[RealityNow]

Affirmative action is racist. That will never be the solution. What needs to be done is we need to help all people struggling no matter race. Then you are actually solving a problem without creating more hate and bias. If the majority of people who are struggling and need help happen to be black then they will get that help if we help everyone in that situation equally. The only bigot is the one calling people who want everyone treated equally a name.

You call Affirmative Action Racist, but you had no problem with the 100 yrs of Jim Crow Racial Segregation and Discrimination and how it impacted and saturated every system with that principle of racist discrimination.
Affirmative Action was created as a result of white people continuing racism, it also is about ways to over-ride white men created gender discrimination.

You likely grew up not in a system that treated everyone equal, and its highly likely you did not have a concern about it as long as you got the unrestricted access based on your skin and got open opportunity based on your skin.

White People's Disrespect of the Civil Rights Law on 1964 is why Affirmative Actions was created, and Right Winger and Trumpist and Republican continue to show why Affirmative Actions IS STILL NEEDED, because some white people simply can't stop being racist and gender bias in their discrimination.

Now, you go fix that, and Affirmative Action will then not be necessary.

We saw what Racism looks like and how it acts on Jan. 6th, and we watched 5 yrs of Trump's belligerent Fest trying to re-promote white nationalism of wealthy white male dominance.
We still have SOME white policemen continuing to follow the Jim Crow styled police programming, which was used to enforce segregationist discriminatory racist tactics.
We still have Racist and Gender based discriminatory activity in the Financial Systems and within our Education System
We still have Racist and Gender based discriminatory activity in many parts of our systems, in some communities and even in how States claim themselves Red

It's overtly visible in some of the commentary posted by Right Wingers, Conservatives and those who list themselves as Very Conservative and other labels they use which denotes their biases based on race and gender.

After 57 yrs... Racism and Gender Bias has not vanished, and you know it!!! All these Right Wingers and Conservatives talking about "their way of life" is based on a system they grew up in of Racist Segregation and its Discrimination and the system ideology of Gender Bias and its Discrimination.

Many of the people in this site, who are over the age of 57, grew up in Jim Crow Segregation and its Discriminatory System of Ideology. Some may have evolved and transformed themselves, but you know as well as many other people know, there are many who have not evolved and transformed themselves away from the ideology they grew up within.

Some of these same Right Wingers, talk about .. Oh' Obama did not do anything for black people"... and the same ones saying that are the same types that fight against LBJ's Affirmative Actions that was put in place 50+ yrs ago, and they know damn well if Obama had created anything specific for black people, these same right wingers and conservatives would be going crazy... Hell, we just watched them go crazy in 2020 because Black people got out and voted, and liberal minded whites voted the same as blacks, and they out voted the Right Winger and Conservatives.
Biden tried to help black Farmers that were left out of Trump's assistance to Farmers, and right wingers and conservatives went stone crazy, crying discrimination, but they did not cry discrimination when black farmers were left out of the assistance Trump provided to white farmers.

None of you cried discrimination when Reparations were provided to the Japanese, but you'd go stone crazy if any was provided to black people.

Every element of Racism's vile and Gender Bias Vile is being addressed as the younger generation uncover more and more truthful facts, and as people gain more information they will continue to create policy that corrects the long history of that evilness of racism and gender bias.

More and more of the system of racism and gender bias will continue to be broken down; and the younger generation of young people today, continue to gather the fact and the proof of how much racism and the madness of white nationalism of white male dominance ideology has done to damage America's Systems, Society and its Democracy. The Ideology of the era of the past that you may wish to return, is not going to return.

 

[NolanVoyd]

OK. We agree. "Defunding" the police is a dumb idea because people in crime-ridden communities want police protection.
What made stupid city managers do defunding in the first place was the threat of more riots prompted by BLM terrorist groups' threats of more violence.
What else would make feckless city managers cut back on their police forces at the time of rising protests by BLM so-called activists?
Now cities are re-funding police departments as murders and other crimes increase.
Smart moves by Democratic-led cities.

Nobody defunded the police.

 

[Bodi]

It's not a popular slogan, but it's definitely based on sound policy which even most police agree with. Ask a police officer if they think they should be handling 90% of what they're tasked to. Rather than enforce law, police are used to 'clean up' areas of society that are severely underfunded. This generally takes the form of harassing black and brown people.

This police offer here lays it down BRILLIANTLY.

It is not all laid on cops... teachers are being asked to do more than teaching. they are becoming mental health professionals dealing with a growing number of challenged kids, abused kids, dysfunctional families, LGBTQ groups, etc. Other professions are facing similar ,challenges.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

OK. We agree. "Defunding" the police is a dumb idea because people in crime-ridden communities want police protection.
What made stupid city managers do defunding in the first place was the threat of more riots prompted by BLM terrorist groups' threats of more violence.
What else would make feckless city managers cut back on their police forces at the time of rising protests by BLM so-called activists?
Now cities are re-funding police departments as murders and other crimes increase.
Smart moves by Democratic-led cities.

Of course logical people will agree on actual solutions rather the political rhetoric that is shoved down our throats by a bias bought and paid for media. Most of the problems are a direct result of our media and these party puppets that are more concerned with being in power than solving the problem. All that BLM was political and I guarantee you nothing has been done to stop the root of the problem.

You call Affirmative Action Racist, but you had no problem with the 100 yrs of Jim Crow Racial Segregation and Discrimination and how it impacted and saturated every system with that principle of racist discrimination.
Affirmative Action was created as a result of white people continuing racism, it also is about ways to over-ride white men created gender discrimination.

Well the first thing you can do is stop spreading lies about me. I had nothing to do with Jim Crow laws nor ever supported them. It is affirmative action or the bias treatment of people that is continuing racism in this country. Any time you are not treating people equally you are most likely wrong. There are better ways to move forward than continuing bias treatment of people. If you can't comprehend that then we will always disagree.

As a child I grew up in a black neighborhood and all my friends were black. I went to a predominantly black school. It was not until I was a teenager that we moved back to PA and I went to predominantly white school. But we were still poor so little actually changed. The bottom line is if you support bias prejudice treatment of people which is what affirmative action is, I do not agree with you.

 

[NolanVoyd]

It is not all laid on cops... teachers are being asked to do more than teaching. they are becoming mental health professionals dealing with a growing number of challenged kids, abused kids, dysfunctional families, LGBTQ groups, etc. Other professions are facing similar ,challenges.

Just curious, how do "LGBTQ groups fit in with the "......challenged kids, abused kids, dysfunctional families".?

 

[Bodi]

Just curious, how do "LGBTQ groups fit in with the "......challenged kids, abused kids, dysfunctional families".?

It was meant to just be a list of groups... not a grouping.

That said, many of them are also members of those other groups.

 

[NolanVoyd]

It was meant to just be a list of groups... not a grouping.

That said, many of them are also members of those other groups.

Some Members of every group fit those. Just curious why you included lgbtq with a list of difficult groups for teachers.

 

[RealityNow]

Of course logical people will agree on actual solutions rather the political rhetoric that is shoved down our throats by a bias bought and paid for media. Most of the problems are a direct result of our media and these party puppets that are more concerned with being in power than solving the problem. All that BLM was political and I guarantee you nothing has been done to stop the root of the problem.

Well the first thing you can do is stop spreading lies about me. I had nothing to do with Jim Crow laws nor ever supported them. It is affirmative action or the bias treatment of people that is continuing racism in this country. Any time you are not treating people equally you are most likely wrong. There are better ways to move forward than continuing bias treatment of people. If you can't comprehend that then we will always disagree.

As a child I grew up in a black neighborhood and all my friends were black. I went to a predominantly black school. It was not until I was a teenager that we moved back to PA and I went to predominantly white school. But we were still poor so little actually changed. The bottom line is if you support bias prejudice treatment of people which is what affirmative action is, I do not agree with you.

It's good that you didn't and don't support Jim Crow or the Policies that Jim Crow created and spread.

quote

CM-607 Affirmative Action Guidance ​

• Affirmative action under the Guidelines is not a type of discrimination but a justification for a policy or practice based on race, sex, or national origin. An affirmative action plan must be designed to achieve the purposes of Title VII; i.e., to break down old patterns of segregation and hierarchy and to overcome the effects of past or present practices, policies, or other barriers to equal employment opportunity. It must be a concerted, reasoned program rather than one or more isolated events. It should be in effect only as long as necessary to achieve its objectives, and should avoid unnecessary restrictions on opportunities for the workforce as a whole. The Guidelines describe the types of affirmative action that are appropriate under Title VII, and outline what the Commission's response will be when appropriate action has been taken.

end quote

 

[Bodi]

Some Members of every group fit those. Just curious why you included lgbtq with a list of difficult groups for teachers.

Because many of them the last few years are looking to teachers to help them deal with issues that are relevant to them but not teaching.

I could have also add people on the spectrum with Asperger's and ADD etc.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Because many of them the last few years are looking to teachers to help them deal with issues that are relevant to them but not teaching.

I could have also add people on the spectrum with Asperger's and ADD etc.

Questionable to include LBGTQ with those groups too

But good teachers try to help their kids no matter what they come to school with.